scythefwd
Member
LOL - thanks for the laugh.
Retail powder prices-the 'economics' just hit me.
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dbarnhart
Member
I reload .308 for which the economics should be about the same as for 30-06.
45gr of Varget per load. 8lb jug = 1244 rounds
Without trying too hard I can get that 8lb jug for $134 so:
powder: .11 per round
Bullets: .13 per round
Primer: .03 per round
That comes out to 27 cents per round.
The least expensive ammo (PRVI Partizan) I can find is about 45 cents per round.
Lesson: Your savings will come with you start buying components in bulk and looking for deals.
45gr of Varget per load. 8lb jug = 1244 rounds
Without trying too hard I can get that 8lb jug for $134 so:
powder: .11 per round
Bullets: .13 per round
Primer: .03 per round
That comes out to 27 cents per round.
The least expensive ammo (PRVI Partizan) I can find is about 45 cents per round.
Lesson: Your savings will come with you start buying components in bulk and looking for deals.
Strykervet
member
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Reloading for common rounds to be used for plinking really isn't that economical, especially when time is factored in; moreover if you use a single stage like I do.
I may load up a hundred or so to plink, but they are still way more accurate and consistent than any military surplus ammo. In fact, my loads are not that much different that what the marines load for their marksmanship unit. I saw a documentary on it and was surprised to see they use the exact same gear I do. The bulk of what I load is for accuracy and consistency, and care is taken that each round is identical to the last. When I shoot, it is primarily to get the tightest group possible no matter what I am shooting or how I am doing it. Perfect ammo makes this much easier.
For high volume plinking and practice, I like to just use the 10/22. I think it is more fun for shooting cans anyway.
Where handloading and reloading REALLY pays off is when loading for accuracy and consitency, and when loading odd or obscure calibres. I load for the .50 Beo., 10mm, and 6.5 Grendel, in addition to the basics like 5.56, 7.62, 9mm, .40, and .45. I can really come out ahead on the oddballs, and I do on the basics too, but only because I load stuff that is better than the factory ammo with the same bullets. My Hornady pistol ammo is more consistent, just as accurate, and much cheaper; same thing with my 5.56 and 7.62 SMK and T1's. Oh yeah, I can also load stuff that just isn't made. For example, there are only a few different .50 Beo. rounds available, but to the loader there are many, many more.
When comparing prices of ammo, provided you put time and care into making great ammo, you should compare it to the best competition ammo you can find.
I may load up a hundred or so to plink, but they are still way more accurate and consistent than any military surplus ammo. In fact, my loads are not that much different that what the marines load for their marksmanship unit. I saw a documentary on it and was surprised to see they use the exact same gear I do. The bulk of what I load is for accuracy and consistency, and care is taken that each round is identical to the last. When I shoot, it is primarily to get the tightest group possible no matter what I am shooting or how I am doing it. Perfect ammo makes this much easier.
For high volume plinking and practice, I like to just use the 10/22. I think it is more fun for shooting cans anyway.
Where handloading and reloading REALLY pays off is when loading for accuracy and consitency, and when loading odd or obscure calibres. I load for the .50 Beo., 10mm, and 6.5 Grendel, in addition to the basics like 5.56, 7.62, 9mm, .40, and .45. I can really come out ahead on the oddballs, and I do on the basics too, but only because I load stuff that is better than the factory ammo with the same bullets. My Hornady pistol ammo is more consistent, just as accurate, and much cheaper; same thing with my 5.56 and 7.62 SMK and T1's. Oh yeah, I can also load stuff that just isn't made. For example, there are only a few different .50 Beo. rounds available, but to the loader there are many, many more.
When comparing prices of ammo, provided you put time and care into making great ammo, you should compare it to the best competition ammo you can find.
scythefwd
Member
dbarn - got a link for the bullets source?? I'm still learning where to buy myself.
dbarnhart
Member
http://gibrass.com/projectiles.html
And only a tiny but more expensive:
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7239&dir=278|281|727
And only a tiny but more expensive:
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=7239&dir=278|281|727
Ignition Override
Member
scythefwd,
noylj and others:
It was very foolish to just buy retail powder in those small bottles.
I should have looked into bulk powder instead of buying a 1 lb. bottle now and then at Bass Pro.
As for rounds. per 1 lb. bottle, must have measured wrong when putting 38 grains of 4064 into a tiny paper cup, then subtracting the weight of the cup.
Aside from that, is there a much more economical powder to use in common Enfield #4s, #5s and the Spanish FR8?
With both, I use the charted minimums of 38 grains in the Enfields and 41 in the FR8, for their respective, specific bullet weights.
A fast-burning powder is not needed for those bolt-actions, Unlike for a Garand (IMR 4895).
noylj and others:
It was very foolish to just buy retail powder in those small bottles.
I should have looked into bulk powder instead of buying a 1 lb. bottle now and then at Bass Pro.
As for rounds. per 1 lb. bottle, must have measured wrong when putting 38 grains of 4064 into a tiny paper cup, then subtracting the weight of the cup.
Aside from that, is there a much more economical powder to use in common Enfield #4s, #5s and the Spanish FR8?
With both, I use the charted minimums of 38 grains in the Enfields and 41 in the FR8, for their respective, specific bullet weights.
A fast-burning powder is not needed for those bolt-actions, Unlike for a Garand (IMR 4895).
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scythefwd
Member
Ignition Override - Yes, it is less economical for the 1 lb canisters, but until you find the powder you are going to stick with its the best option. You could have 6 lbs of powder that you don't want to use or you can just use up the remainder of a lb during load workup. I have 60 rounds done for load workup and I'll probably use another 60 or so just trying to find the most accurate loading for my rifle. Granted, the powder allowance was 6 grains and I'm testing two different bullets right now. I'll still have atleast another 25 once I get it narrowed down to a couple of grains of powder my gun likes and another 20-30 playing with col if I get that obsessive.
My favorite rounds cost about 27 cents to load no mater if it is .243, 30-06 or what ever I load. My cheep bang ammo that i use to play games with my son cost about 8 cents a bang. I have never bought a piece of factory ammo for my .243 or .223 but I doubt I can even buy a box for the .223 for $1.60 a box not alone .243. The factory 30-06 ammo I like is up to $40 dollars a box. I haven't took the time to work up a load that I like batter but I hope to start with that rifle soon.
Ignition Override
Member
dbarnhart and other fellow shooters:
Thanks very much for you guys' accurate estimations of the costs. That's a relief.
Strykervet is quite right about the need to bring along the .22, if we don't need to destroy the small targets.
If somebody can tolerate just one more, very basic question(?):
is there a fairly clear cost advantage to buying one specific type of powder (IMR 'X' or 'Y', BL, Accur., Varget etc) for bolt-actions such as Enfields etc, and a second type type for the fast-burning needs of a Garand (i.e. IMR 4895), or is it all about the same for a general burn rate, when bought in bulk?
I see that Reloader 15 is in a larger retail bottle, but have no idea whether the minimum load (39.5) would save money.
Maybe there is a lowest-cost bulk, faster-burning powder for Both the Garand and bolt-actions...
Thanks very much for you guys' accurate estimations of the costs. That's a relief.
Strykervet is quite right about the need to bring along the .22, if we don't need to destroy the small targets.
If somebody can tolerate just one more, very basic question(?):
is there a fairly clear cost advantage to buying one specific type of powder (IMR 'X' or 'Y', BL, Accur., Varget etc) for bolt-actions such as Enfields etc, and a second type type for the fast-burning needs of a Garand (i.e. IMR 4895), or is it all about the same for a general burn rate, when bought in bulk?
I see that Reloader 15 is in a larger retail bottle, but have no idea whether the minimum load (39.5) would save money.
Maybe there is a lowest-cost bulk, faster-burning powder for Both the Garand and bolt-actions...
oneounceload
member
Buy the powder that gives YOU the best results in YOUR gun from following the PUBLISHED recipes. You may need a few types, you may not. There are almost 100 powders available to reloaders - trying to make one do it all is silly and will not give you the best accuracy
dbarnhart
Member
>>is there a fairly clear cost advantage to buying one specific type of powder<<
There is a local shop not far from me that has very competitive prices on powders. For an 8lb container there is only about a $10 spread between the lowest and highest priced powders. so I think it makes more sense to focus on what works best for your reloading setup and your guns.
Right now I have:
4lb jug of Unique for 45 ACP
8lb jug of Win 748 for 223
8lb jug of Varget for 308
There is a local shop not far from me that has very competitive prices on powders. For an 8lb container there is only about a $10 spread between the lowest and highest priced powders. so I think it makes more sense to focus on what works best for your reloading setup and your guns.
Right now I have:
4lb jug of Unique for 45 ACP
8lb jug of Win 748 for 223
8lb jug of Varget for 308
HEAVY METAL 1
Member
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Try Googling up "The Load". I use that in 3 of my rifles for plinking & in my 762x54 it is as accurate as the full power load, which is to say quite accurate; the POI is different of course. I use only 13 gr of powder for that load. I have a couple of rifles that do not do well with it so YMMV. Might be worth a try though.
Ignition Override
Member
I appreciate the frank responses, but should have clarified something. Most guys shoot only at ranges and many don't want other options.
Even though I'm also a member of the nice private club near here (they only allow paper targets for rifles and handguns), most of my shooting is into a river bottom. This is why economics is the only real motivation for my bullets and powder.
Half of my shooting is with the .22 at the river, and I often bring the SKS (Wolf or Monarch ammo).
Otherwise the Jungle Carbine or Spanish FR8 carbine goes along and uses reloads. The guns are all iron sights.
Am reluctant to admit it, but the Only reason I got interested in shooting when we moved just outside the city in '07 (age 52) is because I found out that ranges are not the only option. Seldom touched the .22 Savage over the decades until recently.
Even though I'm also a member of the nice private club near here (they only allow paper targets for rifles and handguns), most of my shooting is into a river bottom. This is why economics is the only real motivation for my bullets and powder.
Half of my shooting is with the .22 at the river, and I often bring the SKS (Wolf or Monarch ammo).
Otherwise the Jungle Carbine or Spanish FR8 carbine goes along and uses reloads. The guns are all iron sights.
Am reluctant to admit it, but the Only reason I got interested in shooting when we moved just outside the city in '07 (age 52) is because I found out that ranges are not the only option. Seldom touched the .22 Savage over the decades until recently.
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As others have stated, for most plinking unless you really do high volume shooting and reloading on a progressive you won't save money to speak of.
However for tailored to your firearm loads nothing beats reloading. My Workhorse as I've named her 30-06 once upon a time I spent (This was when ammunition was 15.00 a box for standard grade hunting ammunition, FMJ was about 10.00 a box and premium hunting was 25.00 to 35.00 a box tops) about a hundred fifty or so on several boxes of different ammunition to find the one that shot really well for hunting and what I needed. The total cost per shot now if I use the same factory or similar factory loads is about two bucks a shot. I can do that for a bit over fifty cents a shot now. I can work up a load or a few different ones for bullet weight selection for a lot less. And I just plain enjoy reloading, particularly when I have a recipe dialed in. Its a relaxing Zen place to load up 50 hunting rounds.
As far as ranges, I'm 20 miles one way away from two, one that I really like and generally have all to myself. I've been far away too and I understand your pain at range rules for private type of ranges.
However for tailored to your firearm loads nothing beats reloading. My Workhorse as I've named her 30-06 once upon a time I spent (This was when ammunition was 15.00 a box for standard grade hunting ammunition, FMJ was about 10.00 a box and premium hunting was 25.00 to 35.00 a box tops) about a hundred fifty or so on several boxes of different ammunition to find the one that shot really well for hunting and what I needed. The total cost per shot now if I use the same factory or similar factory loads is about two bucks a shot. I can do that for a bit over fifty cents a shot now. I can work up a load or a few different ones for bullet weight selection for a lot less. And I just plain enjoy reloading, particularly when I have a recipe dialed in. Its a relaxing Zen place to load up 50 hunting rounds.
As far as ranges, I'm 20 miles one way away from two, one that I really like and generally have all to myself. I've been far away too and I understand your pain at range rules for private type of ranges.
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