Open Carry Gun Grab

And another recent one. Happens more often then many pay attention to. If you search YT and Google, you'll find cases happen every month around the country.

 
When I am out and about I stay very observant of my surroundings rather conceal or open carrying. At the first inclination of something popping off I leave the area. If I even get a bad feeling I leave without question. When I am open carrying in public areas, I keep my hand within an inch of it, regardless of if it "looks" threatening or not. If an area I am in gets to crowed, I leave said area. I also avoid walking through groups of people, I go around. Also, I tend to open carry in holsters with retention, no quick draw holsters in public for me.
 
There is nothing you can do to combat it other than stop walking around with a target on your hip. I keep seeing all of the "situational awareness" talk, but it's unrealistic to believe you're going to stop a gun grab while out in public with people in your vicinity. Open carriers are also being robbed at gun point too.
 
Invariably there is somebody who open carries that is going to dismiss any (all) examples as inapplicable to them because of, ___________ (insert reasons).
Similar to those who carry a 5 shot snub and dismiss examples where 5 hits failed to quickly incapacitate a single attacker as inapplicable to them because, ________ (insert reasons).
2dede2_4c4e7cb3b14946a7960517e8d2cf21f9~mv2.jpg
 
All sorts of "reality" going on here in both of those clips (and Im sure if you get to looking, youll find a ton more around too) that youre constantly told by many here they would never allow to happen or run into. ;)

Multiple opponents, allowed to get close to you, lack of SA when youre constantly told you can have it 100% of the time, the need to be able to respond in a hands on manner and have some skills there, just to name a few.

I guess the question now is, did reality burst any bubbles and was anything learned? Probably not.
 
It's ironic that the very things carried (or owned) for protection are what make you a target in the first place. In my case, the only reason someone would break into my home would be to steal .... the guns.
 
Whenever I see an open carrier, my eye goes to the gun and holster. Immediately I’m observing the ease or degree of difficulty it would take it for someone to remove that handgun.

The amount of loose, open top leather holsters and kydex with no retention features other than friction fit seems like a problem waiting to happen.

Im all for freedom to choose open carry, but I’m not going to do it. Concealed is much preferred for me.
 
www.activeresponsetraining.net

Friends Don't Let Friends Open Carry

Written by Greg Ellifritz It's no secret that I'm not a fan of open carry (carrying an unconcealed handgun or long gun in public). Except in a hunting context or in very rural
www.activeresponsetraining.net www.activeresponsetraining.net
www.activeresponsetraining.net

The Perils of Open Carry

Written by: Greg Ellifritz As of today, every state in the USA has some type of provision to allow citizens obtain a permit to carry a concealed handgun while engaged in lawful activity. In
www.activeresponsetraining.net www.activeresponsetraining.net

Good analysis of the risk of open carry by a guy who certainly is a physical monster to wrassle with. Greg is a well known expert on such.

BTW, note the muscles on some of the young men fighting for the gun. Most of the OC types I saw in TX where not paragons of fitness. More like the big belly hangover the pants configuration.
 
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Holster selection, hands-on fighting skills, and weapon retention skills are important. They are more important for open carriers. Why do you think police duty holsters usually have multiple layers of retention? They buy time to retain and fight. That police officer fought them to the point where the attackers just wanted to get away. The guy in the convenience store was outfought and his friends got robbed with his gun.
 
It is much like real estate. era, Era, ERA. location, Location, LOCATION. society, Society, SOCIETY.

It's time , place, circumstances. We all make choices and hopefully attempt to mitigate the potential issues raised by those choices.

But it's not anything new. Look at the history of handgun holsters and you find a whole host of "solutions" to many of the problems. Some actually worked, some were an utter disaster and most introduced new and unexpected consequences.

I do find it interesting though and kinda fun finding and testing many of the developments over the decades from the simple loop over the hammer of the SAA to the classic full flap designs to the over strap (and the over strap with a fake snap that is just a swivel to fool the gun grabbers) and then thumb brake, to the Berns-Martin breakfronts and the widow making push button in the trigger guard to the Sloan holster and on to the latest levers and snaps. Most of the designs did add retention but also required additional training and in some cases (put finger in trigger guard to release handgun) could place the carrier in almost as much risk and the grabber.

And while gun grabbing does happen it is still as it has always been, relatively rare and the vast majority of the public are even less aware of their surroundings than at anytime in the past.
 
md7 said:
Whenever I see an open carrier, my eye goes to the gun and holster. Immediately I’m observing the ease or degree of difficulty it would take it for someone to remove that handgun.

The amount of loose, open top leather holsters and kydex with no retention features other than friction fit seems like a problem waiting to happen.

Im all for freedom to choose open carry, but I’m not going to do it. Concealed is much preferred for me.
Click to expand...
In two cases in my state, the thieves robbed the OC'er at gun point, and took their gun. In the two recent videos I posted, there were multiple attackers who were all armed. A good retention holster will give you time to struggle with the attacker, but isn't going to prevent a gun grab. I assume the uniformed officer using a retention holster, but it was a 50/50 chance that he was able to wrestle the gun away. If the other guy with the gun physically stepped in to help, the officer didn't stand a chance at all.

These thugs aren't scared or intimidated by anything or anyone. The fact that they will try to rob an uniformed officer in broad daylight, in a public store with witnesses, and on video tape should be evidence enough that they aren't going to be intimidated by your visible gun. They're going to be drawn to you.
 
Police retention skills and the civilians' are different. They are expected to grapple at times with miscreants, the grab may be an effect of the need to grapple. A civilian probably won't get into a tussle and a grab. The grab will probably be planned which is a different kettle of fish. Not that a planned grab on an LEO doesn't happen, as we see. I've said before, a grab on an OC type might not start as a wrassling match. It might just start with you getting bopped in the head or stabbed repeatedly. Your spider sense is hubris for the most part.
 
Styx said:
In two cases in my state, the thieves robbed the OC'er at gun point, and took their gun. In the two recent videos I posted, there were multiple attackers who were all armed. A good retention holster will give you time to struggle with the attacker, but isn't going to prevent a gun grab. I assume the uniformed officer using a retention holster, but it was a 50/50 chance that he was able to wrestle the gun away. If the other guy with the gun physically stepped in to help, the officer didn't stand a chance at all.

These thugs aren't scared or intimidated by anything or anyone. The fact that they will try to rob an uniformed officer in broad daylight, in a public store with witnesses, and on video tape should be evidence enough that they aren't going to be intimidated by your visible gun. They're going to be drawn to you.
Click to expand...
Exactly right.
 
Styx said:
I've seen over a dozen OC gun grabs over the years, and even 3 that I know of in my state of VA in the past few years. Now they're even targeting police officers. This officer is really lucky to be alive.

Click to expand...

It's worth pointing out that even though the cop had a retention holster his attacker knew how to defeat it immediately.

You will never convince me that criminals don't practice this
 
CDW4ME said:
Invariably there is somebody who open carries that is going to dismiss any (all) examples as inapplicable to them because of, ___________ (insert reasons).
Similar to those who carry a 5 shot snub and dismiss examples where 5 hits failed to quickly incapacitate a single attacker as inapplicable to them because, ________ (insert reasons).
2dede2_4c4e7cb3b14946a7960517e8d2cf21f9~mv2.jpg
Click to expand...
How in the hell is that horse supposed to drink with a bit in its mouth
 
I carry both openly and concealed, but mostly concealed. The only times I OC is when I'm dressed nice and have to have my shirt tucked in. In cases like that, I'm not going into rough areas.
Of course, I've still got my head on a swivel, and I am trained and ready with open hand, and blade techniques to prevent any assailant from successfully gaining control of my weapon.
I'm also blessed to have had my truck blown out from under me in Iraq, and I suffered a TBI, so I have a 93 pound German Shepherd service dog that follows me around everywhere.
I've seen first hand over the years that there are 2 reactions people have around her.
1. Oh she's so cute.
2. Oh crap.. a big ass dog! (as they move quickly away)
She's a good judge of character, and I'm sure she'd help me fend off any attackers. She walks on my gun side.

Brandy and I on beach 1 (2).JPG
 
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