Open Carry Gun Grab

[starling]

The strategy is shoulder holsters and cross draw belt holsters. At least then you see it coming and have both hands available to stop it. Deep concealment smart carry is another easy one unless you are around a bunch of crotch grabbers LOL.... thats not open carry though.

I guess you could be clever and try misdirection/deception. Maybe wear a T-shirt that says "Having Herpes Sucks" etc.

Lots of holster out the that makes a snag more difficult. I wouldnt worry about it to much. If a perp gets close enough to snag your gun without you seeing it coming they are close enough to knock you unconscious, stab, shoot, zap, mace you etc. and then take your gun after.

Many have this belief that carrying a firearm and training makes you shielded from an incident. Its a just a coping mechanism for ego. Your brain is more important than a firearm.

 

[Styx]

The strategy is shoulder holsters and cross draw belt holsters. At least then you see it coming and have both hands available to stop it. Deep concealment smart carry is another easy one unless you are around a bunch of crotch grabbers LOL.... thats not open carry though.

I guess you could be clever and try misdirection/deception. Maybe wear a T-shirt that says "Having Herpes Sucks" etc.

Lots of holster out the that makes a snag more difficult. I wouldnt worry about it to much. If a perp gets close enough to snag your gun without you seeing it coming they are close enough to knock you unconscious, stab, shoot, zap, mace you etc. and then take your gun after.

Many have this belief that carrying a firearm and training makes you shielded from an incident. Its a just a coping mechanism for ego. Your brain is more important than a firearm.

How will a holster defeat multiple armed attackers from taking your gun, or one armed attacker who scoped you out and has the drop on you from taking your firearm? If you have a gun shoulder holster, they'll simply will change their the method in which they attack. They'll hold you up at gunpoint or will simply knock you out vs trying to grab the gun and run. I also do understand how people plan on OCing in public while shopping, waiting in line, pumping gas, walking by other people, etc while not allowing anyone to get close to them. A thug who is far from you might see you walk into a store armed, and then storm in suddenly while you're checking out at the register or walking out of the store which has happened before. You can't pull a gun on everyone who walks past you.

Criminals are as stupid as we like to think they are. They also know how holsters work whether a retention holster or not.

 

[starling]

How will a holster defeat multiple armed attackers from taking your gun, or one armed attacker who scoped you out and has the drop on you from taking your firearm? If you have a gun shoulder holster, they'll simply will change their the method in which they attack. They'll hold you up at gunpoint or will simply knock you out vs trying to grab the gun and run. I also do understand how people plan on OCing in public while shopping, waiting in line, pumping gas, walking by other people, etc while not allowing anyone to get close to them. A thug who is far from you might see you walk into a store armed, and then storm in suddenly while you're checking out at the register or walking out of the store which has happened before. You can't pull a gun on everyone who walks past you.

Criminals are as stupid as we like to think they are. They also know how holsters work whether a retention holster or not.

Agreed, An unfortunate reality is that most of the time if you get targeted you will have to absorb the first strike of an attack. Key part is trying to avoid a situation where you are an easy target or someone has the ability to sneak up on you. At the same time you cant walk around paranoid or scanning everyone like the terminator. I try to push the idea of staying relaxed and looking around while being NICE and using MANNERS. There is no room for short tempers, tunnel vision, or rude behavior if you carry a firearm.

I dont open carry though.. ever. I like privacy and the less strangers know about me the better I feel. If I did open carry it would be a cross draw. If you are not going to conceal it might as well have it right out front in the open. I guess the traditional military flap holster would have merit. Maybe make a holster that covers the entire firearm. Might be a little slow for the modern gunslinger mentality but at least its secure and there. I do carry in a belt pouch quite a bit which has a zipper.

Tip for Any of you guys that do fanny pack carry. Run a steel cable and sew another layer of nylon over it around the belt strap. Old days thieves would cut the soft strap and run off with your fanny pack before you knew what was going on. Mostly in a crowd situation though. There use to be a couple of fanny pack makers that did this from the factory but Im not sure if the CCW fanny packs makers ever caught on.

 

[jmorris]

What is a strategy to combat this? Carry concealed? Hyper-vigilance? Avoid crappy places to shop? Tough when there are multiple assailants.

Yes, people can’t go after things they don’t know exist.

If you have to carry where anyone could grab it and your going to put yourself into those positions, I would recommend a Level IV holster. A number of things have to take place to get the pistol out and none of them are very easy from the front.

 

[fastbolt]

LE has been aware of the potential risks of opening wearing duty weapons for literally decades. It's not surprising that as OC has been expanding (and especially into more urban environs) across the nation that people who engage in OC are discovering the risks.

Yes, situational awareness can be damned handy, but a lot of folks haven't been trained for the how, when & why of doing so, let alone have the experience to better recognize when they're being set up for an ambush. Detecting danger is different than just being paranoid in public.

After years of wearing openly visible duty weapon holsters while in uniform, I was glad to spend the last half of my career in plainclothes, where the side on which I carried my concealed duty weapon was usually less easily identified, as well as the type of holster in which it was being carried.

On my own time I was required by agency policy to conceal my off-duty weapon from Public view, and the Concealed Firearms - CCW Authorization language on my retired ID card (and in the statute ) is also meaningful. Ditto the language contained in LEOSA.

While I'd still not mind openly wearing one of my handguns in the backwoods/desert - where lawful, according to state law, of course - I'd never wish to do so in an urban environment. I don't wish to return to having to be constantly aware of the people around me, and positioning myself (and my arm, near my belted weapon) to deny anyone thinking about a weapon-grab an easy opportunity to set themselves up to make one.

Yes, lastly, the original video certainly seems to show the cop having pretty poor situational awareness and positional tactics while inside the convenience store, allowing those young men to easily surround him and not pay attention to them. Complacency can be deadly.

 

[slicksleeve]

How in the hell is that horse supposed to drink with a bit in its mouth

Off topic, but horses can both eat and drink with a bit in their mouths. It won’t slow them down a “bit.”

 

[tactikel]

I’d never open carry, but if you do you must have situational awareness. Anyone within 21 feet of you is a threat, can you maintain that level of awareness day in day out?

 

[Pat Riot]

I only open carry fishing, hunting and hiking and even then I usually have a garment on that does cover the gun for the most part.
I live and have lived in areas that allow open carry. I did it once when I lived in Oregon. I lived in a small town. I really didn’t like the added attention that open carry brings. Perhaps I was just overly self conscious, but I didn’t care for it.
I would much rather concealed carry in public even if it means using a Fanny pack. And Thank You @starling for bringing up the steel cable through the strap. I never really considered that. Very good advice. I appreciate it.

 

[GEM]

I've might have mentioned this guy before. A late middle aged guy, with the ubiquitous big hanging belly. He was wearing a large Sneaky Pete and a tight, belly hugging black t-shirt with Glock emblazoned on it, in very large letters. Technically concealed as no OC here but Geez. The saving grace was that he was in a upscale supermarket in a town with one of the lowest crime rates in the county. He could drive about 20 miles to another market and perhaps have a different experience.

 

[starling]

Here Pat Riot. These are not marketed towards CCW but it will give some ideas if you want to try and modify. This company PACSAFE sells anti theft bags. The link explains the features. Cut resistant staps on the page.

Anti-Theft

pacsafe.com

Their bags are not cheap but theres not reason you cant modify your yourself if you want. Sandwiched a cable with a loop on each end between the existing belt strap and a a piece of seatbelt webbing of the same width. I also moved the buckle to the front and used a buck with a lockout on it. If someone trying to snatch my pack they are going to take me with them LOL.

I have to make almost all my carry rigs because I can never find anything with the features I want plus a lot of the pistols I carry are outside the norm. If nothing else you can sew a d-ring to your pack and run it to your belt or belt loop with a piece of paracord. Kind of like a short lanyard. Its pretty rare these days someone runs around steeling fanny/waist packs because they are not as popular. If I lived in a dense urban area I would give it some thought though. Something like a Karamnit knife (hooked blade) can cut through plain nylon webbing pretty easily.

 

[Styx]

I've might have mentioned this guy before. A late middle aged guy, with the ubiquitous big hanging belly. He was wearing a large Sneaky Pete and a tight, belly hugging black t-shirt with Glock emblazoned on it, in very large letters. Technically concealed as no OC here but Geez. The saving grace was that he was in a upscale supermarket in a town with one of the lowest crime rates in the county. He could drive about 20 miles to another market and perhaps have a different experience.

I've been seeing more older black men OC in my area. One had a double stack (not sure of the model), the other a 1911, and the last guy I asked what he was carrying, he stated a M&P Shield Plus. This was in a span on a month and a half at different stores. None had retention holsters, and all were standing in busy stores with others within breaths reach all around them. As I was standing next to them I thought to myself how easily I could reach over and relieve them of their firearms....

I don't believe the average gun owner who OC's in busy and/or urban areas are aware of the risk, or follow the news with regards to the risk like "gun nuts" do on firearm forums and social media. IMHO, I think they feel even more safe and intimidating by displaying their firearm for all to see vs feeling like a target.

 

[jar]

I've been seeing more older black men OC in my area. One had a double stack (not sure of the model), the other a 1911, and the last guy I asked what he was carrying, he stated a M&P Shield Plus. This was in a span on a month and a half at different stores. None had retention holsters, and all were standing in busy stores with others within breaths reach all around them. As I was standing next to them I thought to myself how easily I could reach over and relieve them of their firearms....

I don't believe the average gun owner who OC's in busy and/or urban areas are aware of the risk, or follow the news with regards to the risk like "gun nuts" do on firearm forums and social media. IMHO, I think they feel even more safe and intimidating by displaying their firearm for all to see vs feeling like a target.

But not everyone is average. Im old and out of shape and so an obvious target whether I am unarmed, armed but concealed or armed but open carry. I'm retired and so don't go into an office building. I do go into my doctors offices and into hospitals however in those indtances I'm not carrying a firearm.

For example I simply don't go in stores or restaurants or bars if I can avoid it. When I'm out of the house I am most often in my car. I get out of the car to get my mail in a 55 and older community where there are also a significant number of old farts carrying handguns, open and concealed.

I do get out of my car about once a month to pump a half tank of gas. And there I have had one experience that might be relevant. I was going to pick up my groceries after buying gas and so was wearing my Colt Detective Special Open Carry in an old Hunter owb holster.



As I got out of my car at the pump two men standing off to the side of the entrance started walking towards me. As I closed the car door the revolver was evident and I was also looking directly at the two gentlemen. They stopped, turned away and walked over into the next parking lot.

Now it certainly possible that the gentlemen were simply waiting for a friend who drove a car similar to mine and initially thought I was that friend. However the fact remains that they decided that perhaps they should wait somewhere else.

If I were planning to go into a store (for example when the local grocery store has Heritage or Big Boy tomatoes) I most often choose to carry concealed or discreet carry.

However for most of my days I choose Open Carry. Most of my holsters are a quarter or half century old and so have some form of retention but many newer ones are simply boned open top. They are generally high quality and designed specifically for an intended frame type.










Is there a risk of me being attacked to get my Open Carry handgun? Yes; I believe however, that the added risk is minimal.

 

[Styx]

But not everyone is average. Im old and out of shape and so an obvious target whether I am unarmed, armed but concealed ot armed but open carry. I'm retired and so don't go into an office building. I do go into my doctors offices and into hospitals however in those indtances I'm not carrying a firearm.

For example I simply don't go in stores or restaurants or bars if I can avoid it. When I'm out of the house I am most often in my car. I get out of the car to get my mail in a 55 and older community whee there are also a significant number of old farts carrying handguns, open and concealed.

I do get out of my car about once a month to pump a half tank of gas. And there I have had one experience that might be relevant. I was going to pick up my groceries after buying gas and so was wearing my Colt Detective Special Open Carry in an old Hunter owb holster.

View attachment 1165254

As I got out of my car at the pump two me standing off to the side of the entrance started walking towards me. As I closed the car door the revolver was evident and I was also looking directly at the two gentlemen. They stopped, turned away and walked over into the next parking lot.

Now it certainly possible that the gentlemen were simply waiting for a friend who drove a car similar to mine and initially thought I was that friend. However the fact remains that they decided that perhaps they should wait somewhere else.

If I were planning to go into a store (for example when the local grocery store has Heritage or Big Boy tomatoes) I most often choose to carry concealed or discreet carry.

However for most of my days I choose Open Carry. Most of my holsters are a quarter or half century old and so have some form of retention but many newer ones are simply boned open top. They are generally high quality and designed specifically for an intended frame type.

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Is there a risk of me being attacked to get my Open Carry handgun? Yes; I believe however, that the added risk is minimal.

Everyone has to do what they deem is best for them and their situation, and live with any consequences or lack there of.

Nice guns and holsters by the way.

 

[Riomouse911]

I “open carried” my duty gun, both in uniform and as an investigator, then as an administrator, for 31.5 years. I retired this past January.

Without fail, every time I stepped out of my squad car to go to a call or my plain vehicle just to enter a business to eat, if my sidearm was visible then other people’s eyes went to my sidearm. Every. Single. Time.

Most are just curious. Sadly, many were not, judging me by my reaction to their interest. I easily said, “My eyes are up here” to the miscreants watching my holster a thousand times over the years. That ended their focus on my gun, as they knew I was paying attention.

And I was on duty; in uniform or at least with a gear belt/radio in my polo and dockers, and I still got sized up by folks checking out my gun almost daily.

For those who open carry, in my professional opinion you are just asking to get yourself killed. It doesn’t matter if you are in “a nice area” or live in a small town, there is no limit to where a felon may go or who they may interact with. They know where the money is and the easy pickin’s are as they look for victims, so nice neighborhoods are no shield from potential conflict.

Why put such a spotlight on yourself? Go ahead and cover it up and go through life incognito. Your buddies may be impressed by your choice of hardware, the crooks aren’t. They just want your gun, and may kill you to get it.

I guess it is your choice to do so in places it is legal. But you’ll never see me open carrying in public again.

Stay safe.

 

[The Night Rider]

Tha

Off topic, but horses can both eat and drink with a bit in their mouths. It won’t slow them down a “bit.”

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[starling]

But not everyone is average. Im old and out of shape and so an obvious target whether I am unarmed, armed but concealed ot armed but open carry. I'm retired and so don't go into an office building. I do go into my doctors offices and into hospitals however in those indtances I'm not carrying a firearm.

For example I simply don't go in stores or restaurants or bars if I can avoid it. When I'm out of the house I am most often in my car. I get out of the car to get my mail in a 55 and older community whee there are also a significant number of old farts carrying handguns, open and concealed.

I do get out of my car about once a month to pump a half tank of gas. And there I have had one experience that might be relevant. I was going to pick up my groceries after buying gas and so was wearing my Colt Detective Special Open Carry in an old Hunter owb holster.

View attachment 1165254

As I got out of my car at the pump two me standing off to the side of the entrance started walking towards me. As I closed the car door the revolver was evident and I was also looking directly at the two gentlemen. They stopped, turned away and walked over into the next parking lot.

Now it certainly possible that the gentlemen were simply waiting for a friend who drove a car similar to mine and initially thought I was that friend. However the fact remains that they decided that perhaps they should wait somewhere else.

If I were planning to go into a store (for example when the local grocery store has Heritage or Big Boy tomatoes) I most often choose to carry concealed or discreet carry.

However for most of my days I choose Open Carry. Most of my holsters are a quarter or half century old and so have some form of retention but many newer ones are simply boned open top. They are generally high quality and designed specifically for an intended frame type.

View attachment 1165251

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Is there a risk of me being attacked to get my Open Carry handgun? Yes; I believe however, that the added risk is minimal.

I spy a Webley MK IV 38S&W with a 5" barrel you dirty dog. Nice revolver! Dont shoot me If I see you on the street LOL. I see someone open carrying a Webley I will likely be starting a conversation. And here people think Im bad carrying a tokarev sometimes.

 

[film495]

isn't this why people have partners?

 

[Old Dog]

There is nothing you can do to combat it other than stop walking around with a target on your hip.

Yes, there is much one can do to combat "gun grabs." In my old business, we called it training for "weapons retention." Not difficult, mostly intuitive. Only a few simple bodily movements to prevent someone from taking one's handgun away, presuming one has a modicum of physical strength and the ability to quickly discern an assailant's intent.

To those that believe that a lot of criminals actually study how to defeat law enforcement retention holsters, I hoist my BS flag proudly and high. A former writer for Guns and Ammo magazine who started spouting this nonsense back in the '90s and actually got Ayoob to repeat this garnered a lot of attention, but like most internet legend, it's way overblown and exaggerated. Also, for those open-carrying, LE or otherwise, if you appear to possess even a smidgen of situational awareness and perhaps even some skills, the prospective gun-grabber may take a pass on you, unless they're willing to kill you for your firearm. In that case, you're screwed anyway.

But I honestly don't know why so many folks on internet gun forums give criminals so much credit.

Of course, in the spirit of risk management strategies, why open carry if one has the choice? The simplest method of mitigating being the first one shot, or a target of an easy gun theft, is not to carry openly.

On the other hand, those of you that give so much credit to the criminals probably believe that in the jails and the prisons there are classes to teach the inmates on the tells, how to identify someone carrying a firearm, concealed or otherwise.

 

[starling]

The average criminal is going to be pretty lazy and prefer very easy targets (like tunnel vision women on phones). Most are kinda dumb but when it comes to stealing or assault they can be clever. Someone going for a persons handgun is going to be pretty desperate for whatever reason which makes them a little more dangerous.... IF they can sneak up on you. If they know that YOU know what they may be attempting it will likely deter them.

Bottom line is when you are out in public dont be looking at your phone or typing out a reply in your favorite HighRoad thread LOL. Making eye contact with people is also important as it lets them know you see them such as what @jar described above when he was pumping gas. Criminals are like predators in a way. They observe from distance before trying to sneak up on you from behind. Smart ones will work in a team where one will distract you from the front (asking for money in a parking lot) and the other comes from behind. Thats very rare though.

No need to get paranoid just be aware. Its the same for driving a car these days and paying attention to what the other drivers are doing. These distraction gadgets like cell phones are going to get everyone killed before its over. I worry more about people driving than person to person interactions.

Then again ....if I see a gent with a nice Webley MK IV within arms reach... I cant guarantee I wouldnt grab it and run off screaming "I Finally Got One!!!" LOL. Might want to use that Lanyard Loop @jar if you are in my area..... Just kiddin.

I guess someone should mention Joe Smith and his invention in the 1970s (I think).... The Magna-Trigger safety ring system. I remember Ayoob kinda promoting that back in the 90s a couple times. Sort of the "Smart Gun" approach to things. You could also carry a pistol so awkward that a criminal has no idea how to use it. A Tokarev can do that at half cock and of course the HK p7M8. lots of weird pistols out there. The chances of this stuff happening are so miniscule I wouldnt lose any sleep over it.

 

[Ks5shooter]

It's worth pointing out that even though the cop had a retention holster his attacker knew how to defeat it immediately.

You will never convince me that criminals don't practice this

Yep youtube is not only your freind when working on your car,it also teaches everthing up to and including how to defeat a level 2 or 3 holster.So tell me again how guns are the problem. Obviously its the gangs,criminals etc.

 

[jar]

The average criminal is going to be pretty lazy and prefer very easy targets (like tunnel vision women on phones). Most are kinda dumb but when it comes to stealing or assault they can be clever. Someone going for a persons handgun is going to be pretty desperate for whatever reason which makes them a little more dangerous.... IF they can sneak up on you. If they know that YOU know what they may be attempting it will likely deter them.

Bottom line is when you are out in public dont be looking at your phone or typing out a reply in your favorite HighRoad thread LOL. Making eye contact with people is also important as it lets them know you see them such as what @jar described above when he was pumping gas. Criminals are like predators in a way. They observe from distance before trying to sneak up on you from behind. Smart ones will work in a team where one will distract you from the front (asking for money in a parking lot) and the other comes from behind. Thats very rare though.

No need to get paranoid just be aware. Its the same for driving a car these days and paying attention to what the other drivers are doing. These distraction gadgets like cell phones are going to get everyone killed before its over. I worry more about people driving than person to person interactions.

Then again ....if I see a gent with a nice Webley MK IV within arms reach... I cant guarantee I wouldnt grab it and run off screaming "I Finally Got One!!!" LOL. Might want to use that Lanyard Loop @jar if you are in my area..... Just kiddin.

I guess someone should mention Joe Smith and his invention in the 1970s (I think).... The Magna-Trigger safety ring system. I remember Ayoob kinda promoting that back in the 90s a couple times. Sort of the "Smart Gun" approach to things. You could also carry a pistol so awkward that a criminal has no idea how to use it. A Tokarev can do that at half cock and of course the HK p7M8. lots of weird pistols out there. The chances of this stuff happening are so miniscule I wouldnt lose any sleep over it.

I got that Webley a few years ago from another member here. It's one of those guns that I consider a real threat if grabbed. It's a heavy, solid tomahawk and in the hands of an opponent would absolutely do me in. Not by shooting me though. The trigger pull is about two brazillions and the cross bolt safety is awkward and certainly not something even the ardently trained street thug will likely be expecting.

I do, in the spirit of good will to all practice shouting helpful instructions like "Push the safety lever!, Push the safety lever!".



(old picture from before replacing the cylinder release screw with the buggered head)

But I don't walk around wearing earbuds or with phone in hand watching YouTube videos.

And I too fear the average "Law Abiding as long as the law doesn't cause any inconvenience to me or limit my behavior" US drivers.

 

[Styx]

Yes, there is much one can do to combat "gun grabs." In my old business, we called it training for "weapons retention." Not difficult, mostly intuitive. Only a few simple bodily movements to prevent someone from taking one's handgun away, presuming one has a modicum of physical strength and the ability to quickly discern an assailant's intent.

To those that believe that a lot of criminals actually study how to defeat law enforcement retention holsters, I hoist my BS flag proudly and high. A former writer for Guns and Ammo magazine who started spouting this nonsense back in the '90s and actually got Ayoob to repeat this garnered a lot of attention, but like most internet legend, it's way overblown and exaggerated. Also, for those open-carrying, LE or otherwise, if you appear to possess even a smidgen of situational awareness and perhaps even some skills, the prospective gun-grabber may take a pass on you, unless they're willing to kill you for your firearm. In that case, you're screwed anyway.

But I honestly don't know why so many folks on internet gun forums give criminals so much credit.

Of course, in the spirit of risk management strategies, why open carry if one has the choice? The simplest method of mitigating being the first one shot, or a target of an easy gun theft, is not to carry openly.

On the other hand, those of you that give so much credit to the criminals probably believe that in the jails and the prisons there are classes to teach the inmates on the tells, how to identify someone carrying a firearm, concealed or otherwise.

I disagree.. They travel in packs, many aren't idiots and as dumb as you think they are, they do plan, and if the have the drop on you, e.i., rob you at gun point, there are more than on attacker as seen in the videos, the knock you out or assault you first, there won't really be anything you can do. They aren't going to run away simply because your turned your body in a particular direction making it more difficult for a gun grab no more than they'd run away because you turned away making it more difficult to grab your wallet that they know is full of cash. They will simply go about it in a different manner to ambush you.

I wholeheartedly hope the over confidence and the underestimation of the intelligence and/or skill level of the threat will not come back to bite some OC'ers in the backside.

 

[starling]

I got that Webley a few years ago from another member here. It's one of those guns that I consider a real threat if grabbed. It's a heavy, solid tomahawk and in the hands of an opponent would absolutely do me in. Not by shooting me though. The trigger pull is about two brazillions and the cross bolt safety is awkward and certainly not something even the ardently trained street thug will likely be expecting.

I do, in the spirit of good will to all practice shouting helpful instructions like "Push the safety lever!, Push the safety lever!".

View attachment 1165302

(old picture from before replacing the cylinder release screw with the buggered head)

But I don't walk around wearing earbuds or with phone in hand watching YouTube videos.

And I too fear the average "Law Abiding as long as the law doesn't cause any inconvenience to me or limit my behavior" US drivers.

Amazing revolver and your sample is in really nice shape. You are very fortunate to have that revolver. I dont get envious but its nice to see people appreciate a classic like that. Safeties are not a bad thing on a firearm. I prefer them as long as they are reliable. Thanks for sharing the pictures of that MK IV.

 

[The Night Rider]

I disagree.. They travel in packs, many aren't idiots and as dumb as you think they are, they do plan, and if the have the drop on you, e.i., rob you at gun point, there are more than on attacker as seen in the videos, the knock you out or assault you first, there won't really be anything you can do. They aren't going to run away simply because your turned your body in a particular direction making it more difficult for a gun grab no more than they'd run away because you turned away making it more difficult to grab your wallet that they know is full of cash. They will simply go about it in a different manner to ambush you.

I wholeheartedly hope the over confidence and the underestimation of the intelligence and/or skill level of the threat will not come back to bite some OC'ers in the backside.

You do know you're making a direct response to a cop right? Somebody who has probably forgot more about dealing with criminals than you will ever know.

I'm not sure how to respond to the rest of this. I've had people try to take my gun for me at work. Luckily niether of them were really what you would call committed but either way I'm still here.

 

[The Night Rider]

To those that believe that a lot of criminals actually study how to defeat law enforcement retention holsters, I hoist my BS flag proudly and high. A former writer for Guns and Ammo magazine who started spouting this nonsense back in the '90s and actually got Ayoob to repeat this garnered a lot of attention, but like most internet legend, it's way overblown and exaggerated.

I don't know how you would quantify how much is exaggerated.

I will defer to your expertise on whether or not this is common practice but I do have a question to ask you, If that kid hadn't practiced defeating the retention device on that holster how did he manage to get the gun out of the cop's holster that fast?

It may have been pure dumb luck but it sure looked to me like he knew exactly what he was doing when he drew that gun from the cop's holster.