Open carry or Concealed Carry?

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SniperStraz
I'm curious JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone, What did she say?
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http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5233368&postcount=37

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5233375&postcount=38

She stood her distance with a couple of pointed looks with attitude. (Hey, what else do I have to do when sitting there waiting for my wife in the changing room, but to watch other women in the department store?) Then she just came out an asked -once there were other women at the counter asking for changing room keys. She just blerted out, "Is that a gun"? -Looking straight at me. I answered, "yes." She said, "Do you have a permit?" "I do." "Do you really think you're a big man because you carry a gun?" I just told her that if she wanted to see my permit, all she needed to do was ask nicely. None of the other women made comment. She grabbed her daughter and wisked away. My wife asked what had happened, I told her. We made our purchases and left the store, but not the mall. No incident at all afterward.

Like I said, I could have been an off duty cop. I could have been plain cloths security. I am/was veryclean cut. Jeans, collared button front shirt. Casual styled black leather jacket. Military haircut.

She was actually quite rude. Make no mistake, she deffinately wanted everyone else to know that I was packin.

come to think of it.. My wife got made once.. We here in a convenience store out of town. We had our munchie sellection in flopped on the counter. Attempted to pay with debit, but the clerk said that the phone line was acting up. As my wife pulled her wallet from her purse, her Colt Cobra became quite visible. Oh My God, I think the clerk messed himself! He was so nervous as we completed the transaction with cash.

-Steve
 
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IMO the only advantage to open carry, & it's slim, is the speed with which you can bring your gun to bear on a threat.
Socially, at least in our current political climate, I think that CC is much better than open carry.
- You don't get harassed by police for concealed carry.
- If enough people CC'd, criminals would be even more wary since they wouldn't know who was carrying & who wasn't. If I were a criminal, I would rather face an armed civilian knowing they're armed as long as I got my gun out first, as opposed to facing an possibly armed civilian face-to-face & having a possibly armed civilian behind me who's willing to defend his fellow citizens and community. Easy way to get a gun pointed at the back of your head....
- CC means that you are not an initial target, esp if a criminal has you pegged as THE FIRST TO DIE because you have a full-sized on your hip.

To my mind, CC is actually a better and more responsible mode of carry. The psychological effect that widespread CC has upon criminal elements far outweighs the bits of a second advantage that open carry claims over CC.
 
You know, I really want OC to come to Texas. I have to be honest, I probably won't OC most of the time, but I think I'd do it when I went to a nice restaurant. I'd dress up in a nice suit, and strap the gun to my waist. IWB and even pocket carry can ruin the lines of a nice suit, but OC wouldn't do that.
 
I wear my helmet, you can just see it ;), You put forth a bad analogy.
Well, the area and political climate where I live... the Blue Ridge Mountains of Va... is different than say Minneapolis.
My wife and I go for nightly walks.
We live 3 blocks from our local police station.
We have walked past officers numerous times and had them nod and wave.
When getting fingerprinted for our CHL, we talked to a few of them face to face... and were told that they wish they saw more people carrying.
I asked about open or concealed and was told that open was great for the people willing to do so, that it was a great crime deterrent.
Now, I have to ask...
If OC was endorsed by your local police... was legal in your state... and you rarely had it mentioned by others in the populace, would you still be an idiot for OC?
I wear a retention holster, I am also 6'4" 300 lbs and not shaped like a marshmallow.
Having my gun snatched is not a high probability.
It is not a high probability for any one who carries... unless they carry in a purse.

The more people who OC, the more the public will be accustomed to it.
If OC is petitioned for... and no one OCs... why should the gvmt think you should keep it?
A right not exercised is a right lost.


Jim
 
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Where I live open carry is not permitted and it is extremely doubtful that it ever will be. My city council recently passed a measure against both open carry (already prohibited by the county) and concealed carry (in spite of a state law against such prohibition).

Seeing someone carrying openly where it is legal has never bothered me a bit, but if it were legal to carry openly in the populated area where I live, the sight of an armed citizen would cause some people to lose their minds.

I would like to see it legalized. Personally, I would not carry openly in a populated area, but eliminating concerns over inadvertently showing the gun would be beneficial. Also, I would really like the option of carrying a larger gun in rural areas.
 
Not going to vote for open carry or support it for all the reasons Doc_Jude says

IMO the only advantage to open carry, & it's slim, is the speed with which you can bring your gun to bear on a threat.
Socially, at least in our current political climate, I think that CC is much better than open carry.
- You don't get harassed by police for concealed carry.
- If enough people CC'd, criminals would be even more wary since they wouldn't know who was carrying & who wasn't. If I were a criminal, I would rather face an armed civilian knowing they're armed as long as I got my gun out first, as opposed to facing an possibly armed civilian face-to-face & having a possibly armed civilian behind me who's willing to defend his fellow citizens and community. Easy way to get a gun pointed at the back of your head....
- CC means that you are not an initial target, esp if a criminal has you pegged as THE FIRST TO DIE because you have a full-sized on your hip.

To my mind, CC is actually a better and more responsible mode of carry. The psychological effect that widespread CC has upon criminal elements far outweighs the bits of a second advantage that open carry claims over CC.
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Only way I'd be for open carry is if our society is reduced to an "Old West" society where there is no law and everyone needs to defend themselves very quickly, in which case, drawing from an open holster will be faster.

We aren't there yet, even though it may seem like it at times. When we get to a "Mad Max" type of senario, then I'll support open carry.
 
A right not exercised is a right lost.
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Not sure that open carry is particularly a "right."

We have the right to "keep and bear arms," but that doesn't mean we have the right to open carry.

Now, we the people with our politicians can grant ourselves privileges (or at least that's how the framers originally intended...only took us less than 200 years to mess it up). So in theory, if enough of us want open carry, then we tell our representatives that we want it and we vote on it. Then it becomes a privilege, but still not a right.


However, I do agree with the idea of using and ensuring our rights or end up loosing them through lazyness and apathy.
 
I would open carry if it weren't against the law. In Florida it is not permitted to open carry, and if you are carrying concealed it must be fully concealed or you could be fined for the misdemeanor of unlawful display. Yep, that's right, if they can see the print and identify it as a firearm you can be ticketed for for it. :rolleyes:

I used to carry openly a couple of decades ago when I lived in Colorado Springs, and I carry a full size Sigma under my baggy Hawaiian shirt now.

Funny story about that. I was seeing the Doc as the local VA and the nurse mentioned that my over sized shirt didn't really hide my weight. Now, obviously I wasn't carrying, but, truth be told it was locked in the car, so technically it was still a no-no since the parking lot is government property. I told her my shirt only had to hide about 25-28 ounces. She didn't get it and the Doc had to explain it when he stopped laughing.
 
I would not open carry unless I was out hunting or on private land. I'm not a cop and don't feel the need to project force or authority by wearing it on the outside. I just want to go about my business and be able to defend myself if needed so CC is fine by me.
 
I wear a retention holster, I am also 6'4" 300 lbs and not shaped like a marshmallow.
Having my gun snatched is not a high probability.
It is not a high probability for any one who carries... unless they carry in a purse.
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I, for the most part, just cannot agree with this statement. Having a retention holster does decrease the odds of a successful disarm attempt, but it isnt a cure. Im sure there are many out there who know how "retention" holsters work and have devised techniques to deal with this. In terms of your size...yes, you are a big man. But, the kind of person brazen enough to go for a holstered weapon probably wouldnt care. Ditto when dealing with multiple assailants (which may just be as big, if not bigger). And yes, an open carried weapon might just deter certain individuals from messing with you, but I cant help but feel that it just might provoke others...particularly if they can catch you offguard. It somewhat parallels the effectiveness of laser-equipped handguns. While "throwing" a red/green dot on someone could very well be a deterrent, it could also become a provocation. You just never know.

And I believe that ANYBODY who carries should be concerned with disarm attempts, regardless of probability. If this was of no concern, Im sure there would not be such a strong need for retention holsters, particularly within LE circles. To not consider this a serious concern is, in my mind, throwing caution to the wind.

So, while I certainly understand the advantages of open carry, I just feel the positives do not outweigh the negatives concerning the civilian use of this method. Maybe Im wrong here. If some statistical/sociological proof was offered that this is indeed the best method vs conceal carry (for civilians), then I may "see the light" regarding this matter. Until then....
 
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People don't need to see the light. They will carry the way THEY feel most comfortable. I open carry, even after I get my concealed I will continue to open carry. I am not trying to change peoples minds. You do it your way...I will do it my way. I see it as a deterrent, to people only half heart set on attacking, they will look for an easier target. That target MAY be someone that they can't visibly see carrying. As for being "caught off guard"...what makes someone concealing any less likely of that? My state law allows me to open carry, my local PD recommend it..I will exercise my rights. Until then...more people should agree to disagree, and carry how they are most comfortable. Isn't the point of all of...carrying?

Caryn
 
The problem is that there is no statistical proof on which is better.
It all boils down to personal choice.
With my holster, if a person knows the holster and how to operate it... all I have to do it turn and/or shift my weight and the pistol wedges into it.
It doesnt matter if it is still "retained" by the device or not.
This was a large part of the decision to purchase it for me.
Weapon retention of some sort should be on the top of anyone who carries minds.
If you are jumped by a mugger, who doesnt know you are armed, do you really want your pistol to fall out in the scuffle?
Like I stated, for anyone who carries... be it OC or CC, weapon snatching is not likely.
It is more likely for an officer of the law due to them having a lot of up close contact with people who would do anything to get away from them.

If I am confronted with multiple assailants, the best plan of action is to put distance between them and me.
I OC daily in many parts of the state and have not seen any signs of provocation. I am sure those people are out there.
However those same people would see an unarmed person as a juicy target, so I guess that would be a trade off.
I carry, so extra alertness when around people it high on my priority list... or maybe alertness is high on my list, therefor I carry.
Having been attacked multiple times I always case a room when I walk in.
then constantly update my assessment.
Who could be a possible BG, what would be the best route of attack/escape, are there easier/juicier targets than me...
I wont draw on a person who attacks me hand to hand... unless they are skilled enough to make me fear for my life, or are in my house.
One reason a retention holster is high on my list of must haves for carry.

It is all about outlook and personal opinion.
I am not about to say that open carry is the best option for everyone.
Hell, I wont say its the best for most.
But I say it makes no sense to condemn a person for it when it works well in their situation.
I conceal from time to time, way more often in the winter... but even then it is not uncommon for me to be sure my jacket it tucked up and over the grip.


Jim
 
As for being "caught off guard"...what makes someone concealing any less likely of that?
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When I mentioned "caught off guard", I was referring to someone thinking that large body mass + retention holster might prove somewhat infallible.

I still believe that an openly carried weapon is far more accessible to those who might consider a disarm. An OC weapon essentially becomes a weapon the criminally-minded individual doesnt need to "seek out" because its right there in front of him/her. With CC, if they cant see it, they probably wont think about it or even know the weapon exists until its too late.

Besides, there is always the chance that pulling a weapon, regardless of OC or CC, would be ill-advised (for example...when a gun is already pointed your way). Ive had first-hand experience with this one. But, this is for another discussion.

Either way, as you said, you go your way and Ill go mine.:D As stated earlier, its all a matter of preference. I can live with that.
 
Only way I'd be for open carry is if our society is reduced to an "Old West" society where there is no law and everyone needs to defend themselves very quickly, in which case, drawing from an open holster will be faster.

We aren't there yet, even though it may seem like it at times. When we get to a "Mad Max" type of senario, then I'll support open carry.
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Guess you don't ever visit Arizona where all of those MadMax cretins live.

Oh yea, I forgot...none of the doomsday scenarios actually happen except in the minds of the paranoid.

As statistics prove, more guns, less crime.
 
When I mentioned "caught off guard", I was referring to someone thinking that large body mass + retention holster might prove somewhat infallible.
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Far from it, I have worked as a bouncer a few times... and am used to my size making me a target.
Pretty much everything I do is thought out.
Some may call it paranoid, I call it being observant and prepared.


Jim
 
It is more likely for an officer of the law due to them having a lot of up close contact with people who would do anything to get away from them.
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I can see your point. However, a civilian with an OC weapon just might prove to be an "easier" target vs an officer simply due to the possibly of less dire consequences. But, as you stated, it could go either way. Too many scenarios here....

But, I do applaud the use of a retention holster. I have one for my Sig simply because I like keeping the weapon secure when in transit (mainly due to the high price of the gun). I keep a non-retentive holster for HD as, while providing protection against damage, it allows for instantaneous draws. I dont wanna fumble around with a retention device when things are going "bump" in the night!:uhoh:
 
As statistics prove, more guns, less crime.
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Really? Hmm.... Dont get me wrong..Im all for owning/carrying a weapon, but I find this "fact" somewhat dubious. I guess it all depends on where you live.


Some may call it paranoid, I call it being observant and prepared.
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I guess this would essentially be considered as a "Condition Yellow" (per Jeff Cooper) state? This is a good state of mind to be in.
 
Which retention holster did you get?
I EDC in a Bianchi Carrylok.
The draw on it is muscle memory for me, and at night the 1911 lays unholstered on the nightstand.
A thumb break is the least I will use for carry, and usually not very comfortable with that.
I have been looking for a good revolver retention holster. as I trade off between my 1911 ans my S&W M21.


Jim
 
Which retention holster did you get?
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For my Sig (P220), Im currently using a Safariland holster with the ALS. I think its the 6377 model. Since I dont CC this gun, I didnt feel the need for a greater retention device. I just, as stated before, wanted a retentive holster for transporting this gun, given its high cost value. For my HD weapon (XD45) I use the Safariland 5187 (no ALS) for quicker access.

BTW- Have you considered using a non-retentive holster strictly for HD? It provides a nice "home" for the weapon while allowing for quick service.
 
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If it was commonplace and I felt it wouldn't draw undue attention, I would open carry with a full size handgun simply because it is more comfortable to open carry and easier to shoot accurately. I would probably also carry a pocket pistol, like a P32 or something for backup.

That option seems much more comfortable and practical than carrying a medium sized handgun concealed... that is a lot of compromises (not quite a big as I want and not quite small enough to be really comfortable).
 
The safariland ALS isnt bad at all.
I practice with mine enough that the retention doesnt slow me down... at least not enough that I can measure it.
I practice draw and dry fire daily.
I practice draw and live fire twice a week at the range.
I refuse to carry if I am not intimately comfortable with all aspects of my carry.


Jim
 
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