Open carry or Concealed Carry?

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It's funny to read all the "what ifs".

People forget that there are several states where OC is done all the time and none of these disaster scenarios ever happen.
 
The ‘element of surprise’ is an offensive tactic, not a defensive tactic. If you surprise an attacker with a hidden gun, that’s called “damage control”, not surprise.
Call it damage control if you like, it CAN be a defensive tactic and sometimes it's a lifesaver.

A real world example was posted on THR some time ago. It was a situation where a disturbed man took the employees of a shooting range/gun shop hostage. He came into the shop & looked around for awhile, rented a carbine and went to shoot on the range. He loaded the gun on the range and then returned to the gunshop area with the loaded gun and got the drop on the employees before any of them could respond.

Later in the scenario, the gunman herded the employees out into the alley and made it plain he was going to kill them. At that point the only employee who was carrying was able to draw from concealment, taking the gunman by surprise and incapacitating him with several shots. Only the criminal was wounded.

Had the employee been carrying openly he would obviously have been disarmed or shot immediately given that the gunman carefully observed the situation for some time before making his move.

The employee's actions were CLEARLY defensive and yet the element of surprise was critical to his success. His ability to CHOOSE when to respond, his ability to be armed without the gunman knowing he was armed, was INVALUABLE in that real world situation.

I researched armed self defense scenarios some time ago and found several in which the defender's concealed gun was used to surprise the attacker and turn the tables. One was another hostage situation in which a man and his wife were taken captive and driven some distance in their own vehicle before they were able to retrieve a concealed gun and end the situation without being injured.

Is it a factor in every scenario? No, it would be foolish to pretend it is. On the other hand it IS a factor in some scenarios and it's equally foolish to pretend it is not.

I'm not against open carry and I've posted to that effect more than once. It's not an option that I would use in public very often, but I think that it should continue to be allowed where it's already legal and should be legalized where it's not. However, there are some disadvantages that go along with the advantages provided by open carry. Any reasonable evaluation of the facts will make this clear.

In my opinion, the fact that OC supporters on the internet virtually always exaggerate the advantages of OC while trying to completely dismiss the disadvantages is one reason that many people find it hard to take them seriously.
 
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28 posts in and the "silent professionals" are already getting assinine.

If you don't want to open carry ( I don't most of the time) don't.

But please spare me your dire predictions of what's going to happen to me if I do

Had the employee been carrying openly he would obviously have been disarmed or shot immediately given that the gunman carefully observed the situation for some time before making his move.

Of course if all the employees had been open carrying the guy might have decided the odds were too steep.
 
open carry is legal here, but a lot of people still get terribly freaked out by it. there have even been quite a few folks arrested for exercising their right to open carry in this state. it seems our citizens, and our cops just dont like it at all. its a law suit, but you are going to go to jail, and loose your gun for a while, and all the other crud that come with being arrested. plus it is an invitation for them to add some trumped up charges of some sort. until they get this straightened around, i think i will just ccw for now as i have a permit.
 
To say that one method of carry is better than the other is too broad of a statement. It has to be judged on a situational basis. Open carrying has saved some people, carrying concealed has saved others.

I personally would feel better staying concealed in most urban environments. That way I could enjoy my day without being hassled by anti-gun nuts and bored police men. No offense to police men.
 
Of course if all the employees had been open carrying the guy might have decided the odds were too steep.
That's very likely true. Unfortunately, it's rare to find situations in the real world where one is surrounded by people open carrying.
But please spare me your dire predictions of what's going to happen to me if I do...
If you're referring to my post, then you misread it. It contains no predictions of what will happen to you if you OC.

It does contain a scenario in which a person CC'ing resulted in a positive outcome when that same person OC'ing would almost certainly not have worked out as well in terms of preserving innocent life. I'm sure that one could find situations where OC'ing would provide the advantage--a scenario where everyone was OC'ing (as you pointed out) would likely be such a situation.

The point isn't that CC is better than OC, it's that both have advantages & disadvantages. Trying to pretend any different just discredits the person doing the pretending whether they're arguing for CC or OC.
 
To me its all about respect... I respect those around me.
I really don't see a diffrence between some one wearing a gun and some one playing music with the f word every 2 seconds.
 
I really don't see a diffrence between some one wearing a gun and some one playing music with the f word every 2 seconds.
In that case I guess it would be a really bad idea to have you equip a police force.

"Stop, thief, or I'll turn on the obscenity laced music!"​
:D

Frankly, the comparison between playing music with obscene lyrics in public and open carrying is ridiculous. I have to believe you really do see the difference.
 
Ok, let's think about this.

Let's say you were to see one police officer open carrying and a second officer who was not carrying but was playing music with obscene lyrics. Are you saying that you would find those things equally offensive?
 
I'm like BernieB on page one. Washington is an open carry state. So it depends on where I am as to whether I open carry or conceal. If during hunting season in any of the state rural towns that the folk are used to seeing guns, I don't have a problem not concealing. But if I'm in the big city, in large crowds or social event I prefer to keep them guessing. I conceal. I've been made a time or few, but only once had it turn into what I percieved as an uncomfortable situation for that person. I was in a shopping mall at the time waiting for my wife in a dressing room. The mom that made me, couldn't wait to get her daughter out of there after she made a few comments to me.. Funny, I could have been an off duty police officer. Still she wanted nothing to do with being in the same room. -She made it not secret that she was an anti gun type.

-Steve
 
I'm curious JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone, What did she say?
I just got a good retention holster this week and I'm going to be trying OC out. I'll post any "incidents".
 
we are not talking about police officers.
It's a yes or no question, and not even a complicated one. Surely you can answer it.

Or if that's really too difficult, I'll give you a third option. You can admit that you really DO see a difference "between some one wearing a gun and some one playing music with the f word every 2 seconds". ;)
 
no, I don't see a diffrence between the 1st and 2nd amendment.


Why do you?
 
JohnKSa said:
Are you saying that you would find those things equally offensive?
TAB said:
Ok, got it.

So, what is it about police officers that allows you to see the difference in the two actions when they perform them?
 
so tell me why you see a diffrence between the 1st and 2nd amemdment.
 
I never said I did. Ok, your turn.

"...what is it about police officers that allows you to see the difference in the two actions when they perform them?"
 
if you agreed with my statements did you ask?

The police officer does not apply as we are not talking about police officers, we are talking about john Q public. Since I'm paying for the police officer I can dictate thier actions to a certin degree, where I have no say in some one expressing themselfs on the street.
 
if you agreed with my statements did you ask?

The police officer does not apply as we are not talking about police officers, we are talking about john Q public. Since I'm paying for the police officer I can dictate thier actions to a certin degree, where I have no say in some one expressing themselfs on the street.
Now I believe you. You've convinced me that you really can't see the difference between OC and playing music with obscene lyrics.
 
Both!

...although I hardly ever get to carry openly due to draconian policies.

Even if I carried openly every day, I'd still have a BUG or two tucked away, so the answer is "both".
 
Like I posted earlier... I OC every day, as does my wife.
You do run across people who see it and change aisles in the store.
However these people may do this if I were another color, wore clothes different than they did, had visible tattoos, had piercings, a hair style different than them...
I refuse to live my life to make the masses happy.
I KNOW that there have been shady looking characters who saw my pistol on my hip and broke off an approach on us.
It was stated that CCW is a tactical advantage... I see OC as a tactical advantage.
I wear my pistol in a retention holster, and if I feel someone touch it... even if they push the lever to release it, a shift of my hips locks it into the holster vial leverage.
I wear it OC so that it is easier and quicker to get to.
I wear it OC as a sign to people who may want to do me harm, that they are well advised to not look at me as a target.
I wear it OC so that people can see that not everyone with a pistol is a bad guy... I am one of the most courteous people they will see that day. I open doors, get items off the top shelf at stores, always meet their gaze with a smile... I am an ambassador for firearms ownership.
Seeing someone OC has made some people nervous... guess what, it is hard to think of something that has not made someone nervous at one point or another.
Do you live your life to make other people happy, or do you live your life to the fullest?
If you live it to make other people happy, you might as well get rid of your guns now. Living life to the fullest means doing everything I can to make sure I die of something other than another persons hand.
You can imagine all of these doomsday scenarios, where people are shot because criminals know they are armed... they are just that, scenarios.
I am sure that a person was walking around in condition white and had a pistol grabbed... That doesnt happen if you stay alert.
I stay on alert whether I have a pistol or not.
I am sure that a person has been shot because they were open carrying, other than a police officer or an armed guard... I dont know of any specific circumstances.
Show me where this happens, having it grabbed or the person being attacked because they were armed.
And by show me, I mean published reports. Not friends or "I heards".
I can show a LONG list of people being robbed or killed because they looked to be unarmed... whether they were or not.
CC looks like a target to most criminals.
If he manages to walk up behind you like you are one of the unarmed, and stuffs a gun into your back... your gun may as well be at home in the safe.
You move for it and you can have a bullet in your spine before it clears leather.
He demands your wallet, you move to get it and expose your pistol... he either panics, shoots you, and takes your weapon... or he removes it from you.

Unlikely, possibly.
But knowing that criminals look for easy targets... targets of opportunity... I will make my choice to look like a bank vault with a time lock and armed guards, and not like a piggy bank sitting on the window sill.

Carry in the manner you are comfortable with.
But be sure and carry...
And dont condemn another's mode because you dont like being looked at.


Jim
 
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