Concealed Carry or Open Carry While Hiking Public Trails

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The topic was whether to OC or CC when hiking in trails.
There's no question that attitudes & reactions from people will be different in the trails than in town. I don't believe OC is wise in town especially if it's not the norm. People are scared of things they are unfamiliar with and it wouldn't surprise me if an idiot makes an offensive or stupid comment to someone that was OC in a McDonalds.
In town I would definitely CC.
In isolated trails either way is OK but if OC is legal I would definitely OC for two reasons; 1. Because the gun I would pack would be too large to CC 2. Because its much easier/quicker to draw a gun when OC than when CC.
 
On open trails, back country, mountains, forest, I.e. Away from civilization... I open carry and I concealed carry at the same time. Years ago I would concealed carry when hiking but when hunting I would just carry a long gun. Then I had a two week hunting trip that changed my thinking entirely.

Without going into details.
I encountered really fresh big brown bear tracks in snow that had just fallen while Fall turkey and quail hunting with a shotgun. The bear was headed West. I headed East.
A week later while deer hunting I came upon a Cougar on a game trail that I am pretty sure was stalking me. All of a sudden my .270 rifle seemed slow, unwieldy, cumbersome and too slow for fast action all at the same time.
The next day while gathering firewood I encountered a group of hiking dirtbags that decided to come and socialize with me while my shotgun resided behind the seat of my truck 50’ away. These people creeped me out and seemed up to no good and left after a time but I am pretty sure had I acted more docile with them they would have taken advantage.

I wasn’t harmed in either of the three instances but that experience completely changed my way of doing things in regards to carrying while out and about.

I open carry a .45 Colt revolver and I concealed carry a J frame or a compact semi auto when I am out and about away from “civilization”. Both are always loaded with ammo made to help handle the situations above should something go wrong.
 
I open carry when it's convenient and conceal when it isn't. I work for a state agency and we are not allowed to OC on the job, but CC is permitted, so I CC and keep it that way until I get home from work. In a few minutes I'll be going into town and I'll be belt-wearing my battered Model 10-7 in an equally battered leather holster. I don't draw attention to myself in these situations and most people never even notice. But back to the trail carry question....

I see no reason to not OC on a trail. If someone is stalking me or lying in wait for me to pass by on a trail, I absolutely want them to see I am armed. As to offending someone with my visible firearm, in this day and age when I'm expected to be tolerant of things such as unnatural relationships, of vile, profane "music" pouring out of the open windows of the car next to me, of individuals wearing attire with suggestive and/or offensive phrases or images, among other things, I've decided I'm not going to concern myself with whether or not I offend someone by exercising my right to OC. Use proper discretion and go about your business.

35W
 
If someone is stalking me or lying in wait for me to pass by on a trail, I absolutely want them to see I am armed.
That is an excellent strategy if one can insure that only easily intimidated attackers are encountered. They will see the gun and decide to choose another victim.

Of course, not all attackers are easily intimidated. People rob banks that they know have armed security. People attempt to rob gun stores. People attack police officers. People even break into occupied houses in TX. :D

I'm more worried about those who are not easily intimidated. The ones that we know exist and who will attack a victim even if they know they're armed. Maybe even because they're armed and the gun is an attractive item. So I want them to think that I am unarmed. If they think I am armed they will attack in a way that attempts to neutralize me and/or my weapon and they may very well succeed since they know exactly what my ability to respond will be. I would prefer that they make their approach to me with the idea that I'm more or less harmless and that I don't need to be immediately neutralized. That offers me the best opportunity for turning the tables.
 
There are some more remote trails where the likelihood of running into a bunch of hikers is not great where I open carry. But generally speaking it is concealed. I hike a lot in SMNP and wouldn't advise open carry there at all.

I've been using one of these lately and really like it. There are 2 zippered compartments, one for a gun, the other for miscellaneous gear. If anyone asks about it I can simply unzip the forward compartment to show them the gear inside and most will never notice the 2nd compartment with the gun.

http://www.hillpeoplegear.com/Products/CategoryID/1/ProductID/5

518d6649-843b-44a8-9e25-97542d7061e1_1000.jpg

With just a bit of practice the gun comes out fast too. I'm right handed so I leave the right top corner slightly unzipped. I can place my left hand into the opening and quickly unzip the compartment while drawing the gun with the right hand. Watch the instructional video provided.
 
That is an excellent strategy if one can insure that only easily intimidated attackers are encountered. They will see the gun and decide to choose another victim.

Of course, not all attackers are easily intimidated. People rob banks that they know have armed security. People attempt to rob gun stores. People attack police officers. People even break into occupied houses in TX. :D

I'm more worried about those who are not easily intimidated. The ones that we know exist and who will attack a victim even if they know they're armed. Maybe even because they're armed and the gun is an attractive item. So I want them to think that I am unarmed. If they think I am armed they will attack in a way that attempts to neutralize me and/or my weapon and they may very well succeed since they know exactly what my ability to respond will be. I would prefer that they make their approach to me with the idea that I'm more or less harmless and that I don't need to be immediately neutralized. That offers me the best opportunity for turning the tables.

Am I to understand that you are suggesting some sort of reverse psychology on someone who wants bash your head in with a rock on a backwoods trail?

35W
 
I don't care how other people carry or even if they carry. I'm not the cops, governor or a fed. Nor do I care what they think about how I carry. Last thing in the world I'd be thinking about while out enjoying the outdoors.
 
One of the problems with this discussion is it's so broad in scope.
I can hike a public trail from Colorado Springs to the top of Pikes Peak and be surrounded by people the entire way.

I can take the Saint Mary's Falls Trail and hike from Colorado Springs all the way Victor and Cripple Creek (67 miles) and never see another human being the whole way.

There are a lot of very weird people out there in the woods. We know about the meth heads we know about the dope growers but nobody ever stops to think about the paranoid gold prospectors who are out there and think the entire world wants to jump their claim.
 
I don't draw attention to myself in these situations and most people never even notice. But back to the trail carry question....

I see no reason to not OC on a trail. If someone is stalking me or lying in wait for me to pass by on a trail, I absolutely want them to see I am armed.

I'm not worried about the most people who never even notice. I'm worried about the ones who do. Similarly I'm not worried about the nine guys who are deterred by the sight of my handgun, I'm concerned about the one who isn't and I promise you he's out there
 
Am I to understand that you are suggesting some sort of reverse psychology on someone who wants bash your head in with a rock on a backwoods trail?
If they're determined and are inclined to make a violent stealth attack from the get-go, there's not much that can be done to deal with them.

Here's the way I see the possible situation.

Deterrence effect on attacker.
D1. Attacker is deterred by the sight of an openly carried weapon.
D2. Attacker is not deterred by the sight of an openly carried weapon.

Attacker's modus operandus.
MO1. Attacker is inclined to approach and use coercion to achieve the desired ends.
MO2. Attacker is inclined to attack decisively with violence and without provocation to eliminate resistance immediately.

Defender's carry choice.
C1. Concealed.
C2. Open.

Notice that MO2 isn't really compatible with D2. Why would someone who plans to instantly neutralize the target be concerned about whether the target is armed or not? Once neutralized, an armed person is exactly as effective as an unarmed person.

So MO2 is pretty much a lose for the defender no matter how he chooses to carry because he's never going to get a chance to do anything other than die.

That leaves us looking at MO1 combined with the other cases.

Let's consider MO1 + D1. An attacker inclined to use coercion who is deterred by the sight of an openly carried weapon.
If the defender open carries, the attacker is deterred. Win. So MO1 + D1 + C2 = Win.
If the defender conceal carries, the attacker is initially undeterred but since he believes the defender is unarmed, there's a chance for the defender to turn the tables. So MO1 + D1 + C1 gives the defender a good chance but doesn't save him from being in a confrontation. MO1 + D1 + C1 = Good chance for a win.
Open carry is better in this case, but the concealed carry defender still has a good chance for a win.

Let's consider MO1 + D2. An attacker inclined to use coercion who is not deterred by the sight of an openly carried weapon.
If the defender open carries and the attacker is still not deterred now there is a confrontation but the attacker knows the defender is armed and would be expected to take precautions to eliminate the defender's ability to use his weapon. That's bad. So MO1 + D2 + C2 = Probable lose.
MO1 + D2 + C1 is essentially the same as MO1 + D1 + C1 where the attacker confronts but doesn't know the defender is armed. This gives the defender a chance but doesn't save him from a confrontation. MO1 + D2 + C1 = Good chance for a win.
Concealed carry is better in this case. The open carry defender has a chance for a win, but not a good one because the attacker knows exactly what cards the defender holds.

MY choice after hashing through the various situations is that I will accept the slight disadvantage compared to OC in the case of MO1 + D1 because I feel the advantage in MO1+D2 outweighs it.

Other people may have hashed through the different options and come to a different conclusion. That wouldn't surprise me. Or maybe they haven't really thought all the options through and just picked what felt right to the. That wouldn't surprise me either. But that's how I see the strategy of OC vs CC and how I made my decision from a strategical standpoint.
 
If they're determined and are inclined to make a violent stealth attack from the get-go, there's not much that can be done to deal with them.

Exactly.

Effective defense is predicated on the ability to perceive an attack in time to render an effective counter...whether it's fleeing, evading, blocking, or counter-attacking.

The stark reality is that every single one of us here can envision exactly how they could attack someone, armed or not, with disabling/lethal results in such a manner that the victim would not be able to counter it. This potential is very real. The circumstance of this thread, for example, involves hiking on a public trail. Public or not, many such trails have some pretty isolated areas...just outright shooting someone from a distance with a rifle is a pretty darned effective way of successfully taking down a victim.

Ultimately, we can only "do our best", with the realization that no matter how hard we try, we cannot possibly be 100% alert 100% of the time, nor can we be assured that we can deliver a 100% effective defense when called upon.

The key is to be alert, aware, and flexible, adjusting our behavior and methods as required to place ourselves in the most prudent posture for the circumstances.

And the decision to OC or CC is only one small aspect of this.
 
Carrying in an urban or populated rural environment, carrying on a well used high traffic trail, and carrying in the woods are three different things.

Your distraction levels are different in each circumstance, and your potential threats change a lot. No one’s taking my open carried gun when I’m in the woods, because I’ll hear or see them coming.

Bottom line is that being around people whether on the street, in a McDonald’s, or on a trail that’s used frequently will increase the chance that an open carried gun might scare people, and someone might try to take it from you. I personally think the chance of that is low, but any chance deserves consideration. I just don’t want to deal with idiots acting like I’m a threat because I have a gun. I can’t stand when people take the presence of a gun as an automatic generator of fear.

I have accrued months on trails in my life, and literally years being in the woods. I’ve met weird ass people in the woods. In fact the weirdest people have been out in the middle of nowhere. I’ve met folks on the trail that I was watching like a hawk. And in a populated place I tend to just avoid people as much as I can.

Context needs to be kept in mind when making these decisions.
 
My behavior when out in isolated wilderness is very different than when I'm in the city park or the mall. To be in the wilderness is to return to the days when people lived very much like the animals that shared the same areas with them. To me that equates to quiet stealth & avoiding as much as possible announcing my presence. I go nuts every time I watch a movie where the cast is walking along a trail talking & joking around like idiots. When I'm out there I try to behave like a predator, see without being seen and hear without being heard.
I could surprise a bear maybe (if he didn't smell me long before I got there) but bears don't worry me at all, people do. I will probably hear or see someone on the trail well before they know Im there. If possible I always try to find a place off the trail where I can watch them walk by w/o being seen. If that is not possible I find a spot & get ready in case I need to draw my gun from wherever it is so when I meet them I have the advantage. The trick is to do this w/o appearing scared, weird or paranoid.
Ive never had any problems but in the 70's I was with my (very attractive) girlfriend hiking in Ocala National Park (Florida) & we came across a group of three rough looking males that not much later I noticed were walking behind us on the same trail. I told my friend to walk off the trail and stay out of sight for a bit & I sat on a stump & waited for them to catch up. I lifted my shirt & tucked it behind my Colt Python & unsnapped the strap (I carried it cross draw on the belt of my jeans underneath a loose flannel shirt) so it became very visible while still in the holster. When they caught up some friendly words & chuckles were exchanged (I told them I was waiting while she peed) but I could clearly tell that they all saw the gun (not one word was said about it) & by the look on their faces if they had anything in mind the intimidating Python changed it right then & there. After they moved on my friend and I backtracked a bit, found another trail & moved on. Sometimes I wonder if they were gun nuts admiring my beautiful Python or if they were bad guys that were discouraged by the gun. Maybe it was both, but in any case it proved to me that when out in the woods being unarmed is an open invitation for disaster.
CC or OC but never NC.
 
f course, not all attackers are easily intimidated. People rob banks that they know have armed security. People attempt to rob gun stores. People attack police officers. People even break into occupied houses in TX
Expecting that open carry will deter all bad guys ignores those facts.

I'm more worried about those who are not easily intimidated. The ones that we know exist and who will attack a victim even if they know they're armed. Maybe even because they're armed and the gun is an attractive item. So I want them to think that I am unarmed. If they think I am armed they will attack in a way that attempts to neutralize me and/or my weapon and they may very well succeed since they know exactly what my ability to respond will be.
Common sense.

I would prefer that they make their approach to me with the idea that I'm more or less harmless and that I don't need to be immediately neutralized.
So would I.

True on the trail, at the gas pump or charging station, at the ATM, coming out of a store, or in the parking lot.

Most perps prefer to take what you have at minimal risk--your money, your car and keys, etc.

If they know you have a gun and they want it, "minimal risk" leads to an unhappy ending for the defender.
 
Hiking I carry OWB .. I useally go
Un-tucked .. So its half concealed I guess ... I carry different guns , most of the time a Glock 21 ... Glock 23 or a 357 mag revovler of some sort
 
Lots of people open carry their shooting irons here in Iron County, but once in Washington county I was open carrying a .357 and bought a drink at a convenience store. A fat drunk reeking of booze came outside and tried to confront me. I went back inside and told the clerk to call 911 if the guy didn't leave me alone.

Get this; she had hit the silent panic button upon first seeing my gun, and then when I had gone outside she had appealed to the fat drunk for "help".

The ditz lost her job.
 
When I am around town I carry concealed, always have.
When we had a hunting cabin and we were up in the woods, the mountain behind us and anytime around the cabin I open carried. We did have bear come into the area along with other critters as well. Usually a rifle was kept handy as well.
This area of the cabin were among others and we would get people up there on horseback. It was a great area for horseback riding. It was never a problem or was it ever questioned.
 
Seems like some here have a big focus on bumping into a meth-head. I know a few spots in my area where that might be likely, and I simply don't go to those spots.

Usually I don't see undesirables on the trails I walk. Just average outdoorsy city folks looking for time in nature. I keep my head up, but I don't worry too much. On occasion I'll sit off to the side of a trail and glass an area looking for wildlife. People usually don't even notice me unless I move.

I feel bad for you guys who have to worry about junkies when you're out on the trails.
 
Usually I don't see undesirables on the trails I walk.

I have a friend that makes his living installing home security systems. He told me that the majority of people that call him to install home security are people that have had their houses recently burglarized & robbed. Obviously these folks are reacting much too late. They failed to realize that they were no different from the thousands of people that have come home to find the mess, destruction and loss of property resulting from a typical home invasion incident.

There's no question that the vast majority of people you meet on the trail are fine. However it is an undisputed fact that people capable of doing terrible things to others when the opportunity arises exist. If you consider the consequences of being assaulted by a human (or animal) predator in an isolated area carrying an effective weapon & being prepared for that possibility regardless of how remote it may seem is much wiser than ignoring it.

The"inconvenience" of carrying a gun is insignificant compared to the huge benefit it provides.
 
If you consider the consequences of being assaulted by a human (or animal) predator in an isolated area carrying an effective weapon & being prepared for that possibility regardless of how remote it may seem is much wiser than ignoring it.
Absolutely.

The"inconvenience" of carrying a gun is insignificant compared to the huge benefit it provides.
I couldn't agree more.

Anyone who has found that out the hard way in a close call will appreciate that very well.
 
I have a friend that makes his living installing home security systems. He told me that the majority of people that call him to install home security are people that have had their houses recently burglarized & robbed. Obviously these folks are reacting much too late. They failed to realize that they were no different from the thousands of people that have come home to find the mess, destruction and loss of property resulting from a typical home invasion incident.

There's no question that the vast majority of people you meet on the trail are fine. However it is an undisputed fact that people capable of doing terrible things to others when the opportunity arises exist. If you consider the consequences of being assaulted by a human (or animal) predator in an isolated area carrying an effective weapon & being prepared for that possibility regardless of how remote it may seem is much wiser than ignoring it.

The"inconvenience" of carrying a gun is insignificant compared to the huge benefit it provides.

Oh, I understand exactly what you're saying. And I'm not suggesting these people aren't out there. It's simply very unusual for me to encounter anyone who doesn't fit the profile of 'person out for nature based recreation'.

I do encounter the type that set my neck hairs standing on end, but they are always in the wooded areas closer to (or often actually inside) city limits. And I don't stick around when I see them.

"Have to"? Maybe they know to.

A friend who worked for the conservation department here quit because meth heads, growers of cannabis, and poachers made the job too dangerous.

And the area you friend worked in is exactly the kind of place I don't go if I can avoid it (which I usually can). So as I said, I feel bad for you guys who have to worry about that type of thing. It must suck to want to go spend a little time out in the woods, and have to be watching your back constantly for unpleasant people.
 
In my area of Colorado, the threat matrix is valid across the entire range, excluding Brown Bear (for now) and waterborne (snakes, gators):

I have watched mountain lions over the sights of my sidearm. My father had to fire his to scare a cat away on one dusk hike.

I have watched 400+ pound Black Bear over the sights of my sidearm and long arm.

As a young teen, I discharged my sidearm to stop a dog attack.

As an older teen, I stood in the tree line of our campsite clutching a loaded and chambered Lee-Enfield as armed dirt bikers tore through the area near our location blasting away with shotguns at 1 am.

The density of vagrants and criminals occupying public lands has exploded over recent years.

The net result is that I will be armed when out and about in the boonies, and will probably be OCing, unless its illegal or some super congested area. I don't really care about offending the other recreationists, who would be smart to be doing the same.
 
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