Open Carry?

[Cosmoline]

The sight of your weapon would be the incitement for attraction of aforesaid space cadets.

I open carry all the time--typically long guns. Apart from some touristas nobody bats an eye. It isn't an "incitement." It isn't anything. Just a firearm. The more people do it, the more other people get used to it.

People aren't jumping around spraying me with mace and trying to take my rifle. Because nobody is that insane. Even crazy people aren't that insane. Seriously--a giant with a .450 Marlin and the bright idea is to try to mace him and steal his rifle? Try plan B.

 

[Teddyb]

I open carry all the time--typically long guns. Apart from some touristas nobody bats an eye. It isn't an "incitement." It isn't anything. Just a firearm. The more people do it, the more other people get used to it. People aren't jumping around spraying me with mace and trying to take my rifle. Because nobody is that insane. Even crazy people aren't that insane. Seriously--a giant with a .450 Marlin and the bright idea is to try to mace him and steal his rifle? Try plan B.

You might want to try that in a major large city like NYC, Philadelphia or LA before you make such a profound statement. Not every one get's to live in God's country like you do......I am so jealous now lol.

 

[kurtmax]

Element of surprise is an offensive tactic, not a defensive tactic.

This is actually why unconcealed carry is unregulated in Alabama. The AL supreme court considers carrying openly to be defensive, and our state constitution only protects defensive carry.

From State v. Reid:

... Every man was still left free to carry arms openly, the only manner in which they could be used for defensive purposes.

I carry IWB, OWB, and in a shoulder holster depending on weather, what I'm wearing, etc. I've been carrying unconcealed in a fairly populated and liberal area since before I obtained a pistol permit, and have only had one negative encounter. Most people either don't notice or have positive things to say.

 

[Sam1911]

You might want to try that in a major large city like ... Philadelphia

Hey, don't drag PA down with this argument! OC is completely legal in Philadelphia, though it is required that the carrier must hold a PA License to Carry Firearms.

Just thought you should know.

-Sam

 

[Teddyb]

I can't help but notice you stated MOST. Do you care to share what the others might have rendered as a concern. I also don't think anyone really cares how you carry it. That is getting away from the essences of the debate and sounds like bragging to me, in my humble opinion. Okay you got the right why do you want to beat me over the head with it? The last time I looked anarchy had not broken out as of yet and when it does it will be easy to find by all the gun smoke I am sure.

 

[Teddyb]

Hey, don't drag PA down with this argument! OC is completely legal in Philadelphia, though it is required that the carrier must hold a PA License to Carry Firearms.

Just thought you should know.

-Sam

I did not know it was an argument, I was convinced it was a lively debate and the intended function of this forum. I also don't recall every dragging down anything or anyone or anyplace so no offense intended. That said, I really feel if you walked around Philly with a gun showing there would be a great deal of curiosity aroused..lol

 

[Teddyb]

Been Fun, Got to Run....see you all on down the forum!

Ted

 

[sheepdog]

I'd like to see...

...some statistics...

...How many LEOs have been jumped and divested of their handguns in the last five years by a perp?

...How many private citizens have had the same thing happen while OC ?

...Having been an LEO, it makes sense that a whole lot more cops would have this happen, because many OC and they work almost daily in volatile situations which become violent...

...as a citizen, I believe the numbers will be very low...I would bet less than fifty a year across the country...less OC people and less likelihood that they will be in such dangerous situations...
...the ONLY officer I ever knew to be shot with his own gun was drinking a cuppa in a 7-11 and didn't pay any attention to the perp who walked behind him, grabbed his gun out of his holster, and shot him in the back with it...situational awareness is a great skill to develop for all of us...

...having the gun taken away from an OC citizen is often brought up...but it seldom happens...it would be impossible to compile statistics on how many times the visible weapon kept something from happening vs. how many times it "caused" someone to either shoot the OC citizen first or grab for their gun...but I'd wager the former numbers would be exponentially larger than the latter....

...In Tx, we can't OC...I don't even on my property, but I have the choice...I think it has its place...when I worked in a pawn shop here, I OCed in the store...in La. where I legally could...I seldom did...it'd be nice to have the choice...both ways have benefit...both have hazards...

 

[Enachos]

Teddyb,

I don't believe anyone is attacking you. I have yet to hear someone saying that you want to be a "defiant cowboy" or other such stuff. You don't have to represent us OC-ers in such a way. Saying stuff like that is what gets others to think the same way, which is not true. Many of us who open carry abide by the laws and don't carry to "flaunt" what we have. That has nothing to do with it. People are trying to be respectful to you but you seem to be making it very hard. I think everyone pretty much understands your opinion on OC and doesn't need to keep hearing you restate it in a demeaning fashion

 

[wishin]

Rights protected by the Constitution are God-given, or Natural rights, if you're not of the religious sort.

Since I'm not in a foxhole, God's not the issue here. Until then, maybe he doesn't exist.

 

[NavyLCDR]

No...that would be silly, wouldn't it?

And exactly why would that be silly?

Here is an invitation to a fight if I ever saw one.

Oh, heck. Nevermind. It's just not worth it anymore... :banghead:

 

[Sam1911]

I did not know it was an argument, I was convinced it was a lively debate and the intended function of this forum. I also don't recall every dragging down anything or anyone or anyplace so no offense intended.

No? Then your debating style comes off as a little more confrontational than you must intend. You appeared to indicate that OC in Philly was a bad idea or would put you in some kind of jeopardy. Further, you indicated that the negative response you assume one would receive in some places should be conclusive evidence that Cosmoline's comment to the effect that open carry is not an "incitement" is untrue. Perhaps you didn't mean to say that, but that's how it appeared.

That said, I really feel if you walked around Philly with a gun showing there would be a great deal of curiosity aroused..lol

You may rest at ease knowing that your feelings on the matter are unfounded. We have a strong Open Carry movement in PA.

Further, while there may be curiosity aroused, as you've suggested, the lawful exercise of a right is not probable cause for harrassment of any kind. Neither is it a kind of "incitement." One may choose to OC without fear of reprisal nor desire to confront, alarm, or "incite" anyone else.

-Sam

 

[Sam1911]

Rights protected by the Constitution are God-given, or Natural rights, if you're not of the religious sort.

Since I'm not in a foxhole, God's not the issue here. Until then, maybe he doesn't exist.

Hey wishin': Did you somehow skip the second half of his sentence? There is a very important distinction being made and you appear to be missing it.

The point being made is that the Constitution protects rights, it doesn't grant them. They are inalienable and pre-existing. Don't muck up that important distinction by inserting your quibbles about the existence of a diety.

-Sam

 

[CoRoMo]

Are we still talking about open carry?

 

[Enachos]

ColtraneM3,

If your OP is pretty much asking us if you should open carry because you don't have your CCP (I'm only assuming)... then by all means do it. Since really it's your only option for carrying until you do decide to get your CCP. Obviously, by the overload of information here your brain is probably hurting by now.

My advice: If it's legal to do so in your state then by all means do it! If you feel uncomfortable doing it. Then maybe just wait.

 

[wishin]

The point being made is that the Constitution protects rights, it doesn't grant them. They are inalienable and pre-existing. Don't muck up that important distinction by inserting your quibbles about the existence of a diety.

-Sam

Hey Sam, seems like you're the one missing the point. The only "God-given" right you have is to breathe. You can't do anything you damn well please with impunity. That's a simple fact of life.

 

[Cosmoline]

Hey Sam, seems like you're the one missing the point. The only "God-given" right you have is to breathe. You can't do anything you damn well please with impunity. That's a simple fact of life.

The Republic was founded on the concept of natural rights. Some see these as granted by a higher power, others as emerging from man's natural state of being. All agree that they do NOT repeat DO NOT come from the sovereign. Whether that's King George III or the Federal Government. Government did not *give* us our fundamental rights, it was created by men who demanded their pre-existing rights be *recognized*. The rights came before the government. That's a central principle behind this entire enterprise.

Most European states, in contrast, are based on the theory that rights and power flow from a sovereign. Even those nations which have abandoned a monarch still hold to this idea. If the sovereign state does not give you a right, you have no right. If you exist outside a sovereign's protection, you have no rights. You aren't even really human.

Imagine fifty people on an remote and unclaimed planet. Under the European view, these people have no rights at all ab initio. They must form a government, create a sovereign (or have one imposed) and then receive their rights and responsibilities accordingly. Under our view, every individual comes packed with natural rights. No government, however formed, has legitimate authority to eliminate these rights.

 

[billsnogo]

No. I believe we can legally carry in places of businesses that post no guns allowed (as long as not government property), but they can tell you to leave, and those signs are everywhere, so why advertise and be told to leave?

 

[Enachos]

+1 Cosmoline

That's exactly what I meant by "God-given rights"

If our only God-given right was to "breathe" we would all literally be trees or flowers.

 

[Hawaiian]

I am fortunate to have a Concealed Handgun License. Therefore there is absolutely no reason for me to carry openly and draw unnecessary and unwanted attention to myself. I certainly do not want to stand out in a crowd. I prefer to blend in and that no one know that I am armed.

 

[wishin]

It's all smoke and mirrors; the illusion is that government protects our rights, when in actuality they're allowing and permitting certain actions.

 

[Enachos]

I'm no expert. But I believe if more people exercised their right to open carry it would serve as an eye opener for criminals who are looking to strike. I know if I was some scum bag crook and I walked into a gas station where dozens of law-abiding, armed citizens were, I would probably walk right back out and probably never look for trouble there again!

 

[Teddyb]

What If, What If, What If...until it actually happens none of it matters. Holding out an apposing view and exercising my God Given Right of Freedom of Speech, The First Amendment, to call you a cowboy should not be misconstrued as rudeness or impudence.

You want to open carry and I want to call you a cowboy. We both have the right to do that. Ain't America great.

 

[Teddyb]

I'm no expert. But I believe if more people exercised their right to open carry it would serve as an eye opener for criminals who are looking to strike. I know if I was some scum bag crook and I walked into a gas station where dozens of law-abiding, armed citizens were, I would probably walk right back out and probably never look for trouble there again!

Dealing in ones own minds eye gives a very shallow and short sighted prospective. Not everybody is going to think like you nor should they. America is a wonderful place we all have rights. All I ask is don't beat me over the head with yours please, thank you!

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

This one is done.