Waitone
Member
Mod, yer doin' goood! Keeping THR on the HR ain't easy but you're pulling it off with flair.
Open letter to the THR community...
- Thread starter cz75bdneos22
- Start date
- Status
Some of this discussion stems from overall changes in life in america due to morals, standards. What and how far will someone go to make a profit, is all profit good for the country regardless how it is acquired.
Do you hire an illegal at 6 bucks an hour if you can employ a citizen at $10 and still have a profit. If a corporation is making 10mil a year and doing great should they fire all workers and move their company to China to increase
Revenue to 15 million. (please these figures are for reference only.)
I believe at one time most companies/people considered such issues now we live in a different world and the bottom line is king.
Morals/standards, even capitalism can fail without it.
Do you hire an illegal at 6 bucks an hour if you can employ a citizen at $10 and still have a profit. If a corporation is making 10mil a year and doing great should they fire all workers and move their company to China to increase
Revenue to 15 million. (please these figures are for reference only.)
I believe at one time most companies/people considered such issues now we live in a different world and the bottom line is king.
Morals/standards, even capitalism can fail without it.
RealGun
Member
Debating illegal immigration within this particular thread is off topic. Check the original post.
seeker_two
Member
With all due respect, cz75bdneos22, going gently into that good night with you is not the answer....
...for myself and those who still care about this country, this Constitution, and this way of life---we'll continue to rage against the dying of the light...
Now, why don't we abandon all pretenses here & make JammerSix an official moderator?....
...for myself and those who still care about this country, this Constitution, and this way of life---we'll continue to rage against the dying of the light...
Now, why don't we abandon all pretenses here & make JammerSix an official moderator?....
WayneConrad
Member
Odds are the mods aren't closing this very off-topic thread because they don't want to be accused of silencing criticism.
What a bind to put 'em in.
What a bind to put 'em in.
RealGun
Member
Your inference is your own. You wouldn't know when or if I report a thread.
I have no problem reading threads, except that I don't appreciate opening a new thread with an uninformative title and finding it off topic. I don't prefer chaos and incivility and believe we should abide by forum guidelines with some reasonable sense of what is appropriate.
Personally, I think illegal immigration relates to civil liberties by the thinnest of connections. It is really just a rationale to allow discussing whatever anyone feels like discussing. Nonsense. I can find this stuff anywhere. It is in fact used to beat up on the government and to propose that looney third parties have a better idea and a prayer of getting a candidate elected. Much of the rest becomes garbage and sound bites posted by political punks with nothing positive to say about anything or anyone. The High Road used to be much higher.
RealGun...
I know more than you think.
In any case, the thread title tells you what you need to know the vast majority of the time. It really is a matter of choice - you don't have to read the thing and you don't have to whine about it if you don't read it.
Lord, seems simple to me.
Biker
I know more than you think.
In any case, the thread title tells you what you need to know the vast majority of the time. It really is a matter of choice - you don't have to read the thing and you don't have to whine about it if you don't read it.
Lord, seems simple to me.
Biker
RealGun
Member
That has nothing to do with this thread. I see you often carrying a chip from one thread to another. Quite the sniper.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
How dare you make a reasonable and well thought out post. What is wrong with you?
grampster
Member
I read a few posts, then skipped around. Sorry if what I have to say is redundant.
THR is primarily about firearms and firearm related issues. Sometimes it is a stretch to get into certain conversations and keep in on THR, gun oriented.
That is why we have APS Roundtable. Why don't more of you come on over to APS where just about anything is on topic as long as it is done in a civil matter.
Arguments should have points that are valid and meaningful; not hysterical rants, so keep that in mind.
THR is primarily about firearms and firearm related issues. Sometimes it is a stretch to get into certain conversations and keep in on THR, gun oriented.
That is why we have APS Roundtable. Why don't more of you come on over to APS where just about anything is on topic as long as it is done in a civil matter.
Arguments should have points that are valid and meaningful; not hysterical rants, so keep that in mind.
RealGun
Member
What many others are talking about is how threads get spoiled and ultimately closed. A big one is straying off the topic or making it about several topics. I think we each have an obligation to stick to the subject. This particular thread is not just another illegal alien thread, and I chose to point that out.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
grampster said:
Well, I check into APS before posting here, just for that reason.
Turns out APS has no current threads on this, it's got some off the wall topics no doubt but for the most part there are few "serious" threads over there.
Right now the top 3 threads I see are about
1) how to ask someone on a date
2) Some kind of "witch" thread
3) Someone "pimping" their car
Gadsden
Member
I came here thinking that this was a friendly forum where I could post and read posts without the discussion degenerating into name calling and political ideology battles. Yes, I have very strong views about immigration, politics and politicians. Who doesn't? But please let's keep this a discussion. Name calling is certainly not going to change my views on anything. Will it change yours?
This is a crummy issue to get upset at each other over.
I will not further make statements on this subject because i have said my piece and anything more is repetitive.
The name of the forun is the THE HIGH ROAD> that means debating issues in points of FACT and not EMOTIONS> without resorting to emotional outbursts or personal slander. It is very possible to debate an issue on merit and fact without sorting to "you moron", it really is.
Grow up name callers, If you must issue attacks, do so via PM and allow yourselves to discuss it there. there is no need to call someone a "stupid jack@$$ if you do not understand my point."
and so in parting, If you do not agree with me, meet me on the corner of fifth and main, and we will discuss it like men. (sarcasm off)
I will not further make statements on this subject because i have said my piece and anything more is repetitive.
The name of the forun is the THE HIGH ROAD> that means debating issues in points of FACT and not EMOTIONS> without resorting to emotional outbursts or personal slander. It is very possible to debate an issue on merit and fact without sorting to "you moron", it really is.
Grow up name callers, If you must issue attacks, do so via PM and allow yourselves to discuss it there. there is no need to call someone a "stupid jack@$$ if you do not understand my point."
and so in parting, If you do not agree with me, meet me on the corner of fifth and main, and we will discuss it like men. (sarcasm off)
longeyes
member
The bottom-line here is that quite a few of us want to talk about the problem of illegal immigration and we'd prefer to do that here. Maybe we're venting--God forbid--and maybe we're seeing what other people think and maybe we're sharpening our thoughts and arguments. Whatever we're doing we're not retarding western civilization by chewing over an extremely important subject. A group of members--I believe a relatively small number--seems to have trouble with that free expression of interest. Now, of course, they could just skip that thread but for some reason they won't. They are curiously drawn to these threads so, forgive my bluntness, they can report being offended and run to the mods for protection. To me this is more "middle school" than "high road," but that's just me.
Hollowdweller
Member
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 93
I am a liberal Democrat and I think that the laws against illegal immigration should be enforced.
There is no way the government can provide any sort of a social safety net when you are getting in so many low wage workers. Also going back to President Bush and the conservative view where he wants everyone to be responsible for saving for their own retirement, medical savings accounts, paying for their own education, and other things of that nature, how can you expect people to save money back for these things when illegals are depressing the salaries?
I would like to see businesses prosecuted for hiring them and some real enforcement against those who HIRE them.
If I heard correctly only 2? businesses last year were prosecuted for hiring illegals? Also I heard Mexico is very strict on their Southern border because they don't want people depressint their wages.
There is no way the government can provide any sort of a social safety net when you are getting in so many low wage workers. Also going back to President Bush and the conservative view where he wants everyone to be responsible for saving for their own retirement, medical savings accounts, paying for their own education, and other things of that nature, how can you expect people to save money back for these things when illegals are depressing the salaries?
I would like to see businesses prosecuted for hiring them and some real enforcement against those who HIRE them.
If I heard correctly only 2? businesses last year were prosecuted for hiring illegals? Also I heard Mexico is very strict on their Southern border because they don't want people depressint their wages.
CAnnoneer
Member
Jammer, you keep repeating this, but you keep omitting to answer the two simple questions:
1) Who exactly is "we"? Aliens? Criminal employers?
2) Assuming you are right, would't "you" be even stronger with 100 million foreigners? 200 million? Wouldn't "you" be strongest when the entire Turd World moves into the US?
Please be so kind to address the implications of your assertions.
longeyes
member
And about that socialism-illegal alien connection...
Yeah, it's real. Bring in another fifty to a hundred million illegals, give them legitimacy, and you will see the social welfare establishment become America's number one industry (right up until The Crash). Give them suffrage and you will see socialism welcomed in perpetuity (perpetuity defined as, well, not all that long, I'm afraid). Constitutional democracy and free market capitalism depend on a set of social, moral, and cultural values that The Rulers are hell-bent on destroying.
Yeah, it's real. Bring in another fifty to a hundred million illegals, give them legitimacy, and you will see the social welfare establishment become America's number one industry (right up until The Crash). Give them suffrage and you will see socialism welcomed in perpetuity (perpetuity defined as, well, not all that long, I'm afraid). Constitutional democracy and free market capitalism depend on a set of social, moral, and cultural values that The Rulers are hell-bent on destroying.
Of course, if no one hits "report this post," the moderators will never even see misbehavior, right? Nope. We'll see it -- eventually. You may not know about it when we do, though, because we usually work behind the scenes to get the member to play nicely, or if the behavior is bad enough, we simply kick them off the playground.
When someone hits "report this post," all that happens is that the moderators read the thread a bit earlier than we otherwise would have. Then we make, earlier, whatever decisions we would have made, later, when we came across the thread on our own.
Believe me, "report this post" does NOT dictate what moderators do or do not do to help keep THR a pleasant place to visit. It certainly doesn't mean that we have to do whatever the complainer said!
Reporting posts helps keep THR a pleasant place to visit because it helps us know which threads need to be read first when we come online, that's all. Since none of the volunteers who run this place have unlimited time to spend online, we appreciate it when folks don't respond to offensive stuff and instead simply point the direction we should look first when we get here.
For your meta-point, that some folks are provacateurs and "make" threads get closed because everyone gets so mad at them and starts throwing insults at them, I just have to say that if you're worried that the mods might come down on you because of the way you post in response to a provacateur, you probably should not post until you've cooled off. Certainly you cannot blame someone else for what you yourself write.
Even if they tell us about it.
pax
An Example of LEGAL Immigration -- Our Own Experience
I met my Latin goddess in the winter of 1978, when I was a high school junior studying Spanish. She was a Chilean exchange student. Speechless is about all I recall when I first saw her!
I corresponded for 6 years as I completed high school then college. In 1983, I decided to terminate a dead-end relationship with an unworthy girlfriend. I made plans to have my now wife enter the country legally, reside with friends while I dated her, and finally to wed.
Well, the government would have not part of it. We made repeated applications, state-side and in Chile. Here is the kicker—the reason they did not want to grant her a visa—“We’re concerned that she won’t return to Chile after 1 year; most Chilean women end up staying.” I asked, “Well, no isn’t that the basic idea of dating to assure compatibility?” Still, the answer was no.
Finally, following nearly 18 months of ignorance on the part of our government officials, in shear exasperation, I called the Embassy and asked for a line-item set of expectations of what I needed to do. When the same ridiculous statements statrted all over again, I retorted to the U.S. Embassy worker in Chile, “What the H--- do I have to do, fly to Chile and marry her there?!” To which the Embassy worker responded, “That would simplify matters greatly.” Within a month, I was in Chile, married and heading back in the U.S. My new bride had to wait for her papers.
About a month after I left to come back to the U.S., she went to the Embassy, for her visa. She did not know that she would need many “proofs”. She needed to have proof of me having a full-time contract. She didn’t because I had none. She needed proof of me having health insurance. She didn’t, because I had none. She needed proof of me having some amount of money in a bank account. She didn’t, because I none. The Embassy employee smiled and said, “That okay. If he flew all the way here to marry you, he’ll darned sure take care of you!”
She arrived to America in February, 1985, not speaking a word of English. She enrolled in English classes, and became a Spanish/English teacher. She completed her studies on a full ride due to her grades. She completed her M.A. in Educational Administration on a full-ride due to grades, and the same for her doctoral studies at MSU.
Fast forward 22 years. My Latina is still my Sra. We flew back to Chile this past year to renew our wedding vows. Our daughter (LilSureShot1994) was the flower girl. Guess the Embassy worker was right, those Chilean women do stay—we’ve stayed together for over 22 years.
God bless America, and God bless the woman who immigrated legally to America, giving me a wonderful family, becoming a productive citizen, becoming a certified teacher, and educating American children.
I’m glad WE did it the LEGAL way.
Doc2005
I met my Latin goddess in the winter of 1978, when I was a high school junior studying Spanish. She was a Chilean exchange student. Speechless is about all I recall when I first saw her!
I corresponded for 6 years as I completed high school then college. In 1983, I decided to terminate a dead-end relationship with an unworthy girlfriend. I made plans to have my now wife enter the country legally, reside with friends while I dated her, and finally to wed.
Well, the government would have not part of it. We made repeated applications, state-side and in Chile. Here is the kicker—the reason they did not want to grant her a visa—“We’re concerned that she won’t return to Chile after 1 year; most Chilean women end up staying.” I asked, “Well, no isn’t that the basic idea of dating to assure compatibility?” Still, the answer was no.
Finally, following nearly 18 months of ignorance on the part of our government officials, in shear exasperation, I called the Embassy and asked for a line-item set of expectations of what I needed to do. When the same ridiculous statements statrted all over again, I retorted to the U.S. Embassy worker in Chile, “What the H--- do I have to do, fly to Chile and marry her there?!” To which the Embassy worker responded, “That would simplify matters greatly.” Within a month, I was in Chile, married and heading back in the U.S. My new bride had to wait for her papers.
About a month after I left to come back to the U.S., she went to the Embassy, for her visa. She did not know that she would need many “proofs”. She needed to have proof of me having a full-time contract. She didn’t because I had none. She needed proof of me having health insurance. She didn’t, because I had none. She needed proof of me having some amount of money in a bank account. She didn’t, because I none. The Embassy employee smiled and said, “That okay. If he flew all the way here to marry you, he’ll darned sure take care of you!”
She arrived to America in February, 1985, not speaking a word of English. She enrolled in English classes, and became a Spanish/English teacher. She completed her studies on a full ride due to her grades. She completed her M.A. in Educational Administration on a full-ride due to grades, and the same for her doctoral studies at MSU.
Fast forward 22 years. My Latina is still my Sra. We flew back to Chile this past year to renew our wedding vows. Our daughter (LilSureShot1994) was the flower girl. Guess the Embassy worker was right, those Chilean women do stay—we’ve stayed together for over 22 years.
God bless America, and God bless the woman who immigrated legally to America, giving me a wonderful family, becoming a productive citizen, becoming a certified teacher, and educating American children.
I’m glad WE did it the LEGAL way.
Doc2005
dzimmerm
Member
Taxes taxes taxes
I see the topic of illegal immigrants often brings up the point that they are not paying taxes because they are being paid under the table.
I mentioned a possible remedy for this by instituting a consumption tax. A consumption tax would not only allow money to be collected from illegal immigrants, it would also allow money to be collected from other criminals that do not pay income taxes.
The last time I mentioned this no one responded.
I thought it was a positive idea to part of a problem.
Why did no one respond to it?
dzimmerm
I see the topic of illegal immigrants often brings up the point that they are not paying taxes because they are being paid under the table.
I mentioned a possible remedy for this by instituting a consumption tax. A consumption tax would not only allow money to be collected from illegal immigrants, it would also allow money to be collected from other criminals that do not pay income taxes.
The last time I mentioned this no one responded.
I thought it was a positive idea to part of a problem.
Why did no one respond to it?
dzimmerm
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I guess I don't completely understand it. Do you mean something like a VAT (value added tax)?
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