Opinion Change - Safety Course Should Be Required

[Ryanxia]

And people can say stupid or dangerous things, let's require a government mandated course before we can exercise free speech. And let's not forget those common sense safety measures to keep religions "reasonable". I mean no one needs to read about the more extreme portions of the Bible or Koran.

No, wait, I forgot, America here... Let's do what our founding fathers did and roll the dice and Freedom on.

 

[Hanzo581]

The free speech thing doesn't work, you can't say whatever you want, there are limitations.

Having a guy pull his loaded Glock carry gun out so he could compare it to another model at my counter and sweeping me in the process is not ok. I don't care if you accidentally shoot yourself, it's others I'm concerned about.

 

[cbnoble]

I got my FFL and started to sell guns at shows a year ago. I had been selling non-FFL stuff before that so I knew that most of the people coming through had no real clue - and quite a few of them would go out of their way to prove that they know nothing about everything. The idea of a mandatory safety class sounds good, but there is no real way to ensure that it happens. What about private sales? Will you need a safety certification to show when purchasing?

Since I can't control what others do, I look at what I can do. Everyone who buys a gun from me gets a conversation about the 4 Rules and how they are applied to the particular gun that they are buying. They learn about the safety features and how they work. I'm sure that some of the people let it go in one ear and out the other, but many do appreciate it and demonstrate their appreciation through additional purchases right then and there.

It's not perfect, but I like to think that it helps just a little bit. It is what I can do without imposing my will on the rest of the world.

 

[morcey2]

The free speech thing doesn't work, you can't say whatever you want, there are limitations.

Having a guy pull his loaded Glock carry gun out so he could compare it to another model at my counter and sweeping me in the process is not ok. I don't care if you accidentally shoot yourself, it's others I'm concerned about.

In most states, that's brandishing and it's already illegal. Assuming the store at which you work is in Virginia:

§ 18.2-282
Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty

A. It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured. However, this section shall not apply to any person engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense. Persons violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor or, if the violation occurs upon any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds or upon public property within 1,000 feet of such school property, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

Maybe after a chat with the police, the brandisher would be a more enlightened than he would have been with a safety class. Also, if he was carrying concealed, not openly, he would have already had some sort of a safety class to get the permit. (At least according to my minimal understanding of Virginia law.)

Matt

 

[Orcon]

Turns out, your average gun buyer is a complete and utter imbecile.

Coming from a guy that works retail in a big box store, your opinion carries the same staggering influence as the opinion of the dishwasher at the local diner. Stupidity can be graded on a curve and is almost never entirely absolute. A person can act, speak or even look stupidly but that doesn't make a person inherently stupid. Looking to the gubmint to swoop in and save the plebs from themselves has a very poor track record in terms of desirable outcomes.

Sure you could trash talk current or potential gun owners for ignorance but wouldn't it be more constructive to educate them? Are you doing anything to advance firearm education or just griping?

 

[Hanzo581]

I'm not an educator, I'm a salesman. If I pulled every gun buyer aside and tried to teach them gun safety I'd be out of a job fast. Would you want driving lessons from your car salesman?

To the other poster, the guy was open carrying.

 

[horsey300]

my take...

I don't know if this has been addressed or not, I read the first page but didn't want to spend a lot of time.....my idea is this: ( I know this will never pass, but i feel it IS the best answer to all quandries, emphasis on I KNOW THIS WILL NEVER PASS) living in a rural community, even archery deer shot placement was brought up in a non-discriminatory manner in my 3rd grade. once upon a time firearm safety was taught widespread in schools across the country..... MY solution is going back to the '50's and before when everyone was taught safety with a firearm nationwide without a list, but still keeping the background checks effective..... my reasoning? less crimes happen in areas with better training and armament per capita, less kids do stupid things with full understanding of consequences, and repeat offenders are still screwed.

 

[hso]

I am surprised there aren't more gun related accident than there are annually.

The data doesn't support your observation and others' assumptions. Perhaps you're assuming that a lack of extensive knowledge or strict adherence to the Cooper rules indicate some complete failure as opposed to an incremental reduction in the layers of safety.

 

[Zoogster]

Slippery slope.

As Bartholomew said many of the ways they restrict firearm rights is under the guise of safety.
In California we can only buy safe handguns on an approved list, which police are exempt from because it doesn't matter if the gun they are in public with all day is safe.
No the real reason police are exempt is they know it is a farce and don't want to hamstring the police, but absolutely want to hamstring the citizen.

There is a larger number of new gun owners lately
Previously newcomers joined a community with a higher percentage of knowledgeable people.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Sure, right after there is an approved course before people have sex or vote for other morons, or write things I don't agree with on the internet

 

[barnbwt]

Probably out of the ordinary here, but I'm actually okay with careless/reckless boobs provided they are sufficiently and diligently punished for the consequences of their actions (up to and including their not being in a position to be careless/reckless again). Truth be told, many reckless acts never hurt anyone, but a careful criminal is rarely punished before hurting someone.

TCB

PS: Also important that we retain the ability to call out fools or reckless people for what they are, before their carelessness results in harm

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Let a guy from CA tell you all about how 'great' it is to give legislators more control over your rights... Yeah right...

No way man. You want to do something to help? Host a free class about gun handling and safety. Lots of us do that.

 

[Hydraulic Jack]

I don't like preventative laws that infringe on me. It should be assumed that someone knows gun safety, and they should be punished if they don't and commit crimes. Onerous legislation "it's worth it if it saves one life" is not worth it at all because it inconveniences thousands.

 

[Orcon]

I'm not an educator, I'm a salesman. If I pulled every gun buyer aside and tried to teach them gun safety I'd be out of a job fast. Would you want driving lessons from your car salesman?

To the other poster, the guy was open carrying.

Well with that attitude I suppose there's not much to say. Maybe Eric Idle can cheer you up...

[Youtube]buqtdpuZxvk[/media]

 

[Swing]

You are correct about many people being imbeciles, but I don't believe a safety course would change that.

^. This. The morons aren't likely to learn anything, the competent will have to put up with yet another infringement, and the anti-RKBA will be given another tool to mess with 2A rights.

No thanks.

 

[wojownik]

I'm not an educator, I'm a salesman. If I pulled every gun buyer aside and tried to teach them gun safety I'd be out of a job fast. Would you want driving lessons from your car salesman?

Maybe salemen are educators. When I bought my car, the car salesman pointed out all sorts of safety features, handling tips, interesting features that were not in the manual, etc ...

The best firearms "saleman" I ever encountered took the time to educate me on the product, alternatives, even got me looking into IDPA for the first time.

Selling is educating. Selling depends on the attitude of the salesperson, their intuition and ability to educate prospects. Selling does not have to mean just being a "register jockey".

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I've always been a proponent of Natural Selection. If someone who's never handled or shot a firearm wants to buy one and do as they please in their own home that's fine by me. Eventually those folks will be nonexistent.

Where I DO have a problem is out in public. Whether that be public ranges or areas where open carry or CC requires no permit. At that point you're bringing other folks and their families in the mix. If one plans on carrying a firearm in public they should have some basic training on firearms at a minimum.

And since I've brought up ranges, and they've been mentioned by others in this thread, I really wish there was a straight zero tolerance policy of basic range rules. They really aren't that hard to follow. One mess up and you're not allowed back, period. My last range visit (this past Mon) I witnessed a RSO working with a new shooter who looked like he was maybe legal driving age. Three times with in one mag he told the kid to keep his finger off the trigger. This was while the kid was turning halfway around to make comments to his mom.

If there was a one strike and you're out policy at all ranges it would likely reduce the already minimal accidents even more. I know I would feel more comfortable.

 

[Hanzo581]

If I worked at a mom and pop shop I would love to take the time with each person, but when you have dozens of people waiting with tickets in hand for your help it's just not feasible.

In my spare time I do help those with no experience learn. I take them on range trips and gladly show them the ropes. But that's not really the point, it's about being ok with a 21 year old being able to buy a gun and strap it on his hip and carry it around without requiring any experience whatsoever.

I'm just not ok with that. In your home, sure, I can agree with you guys.

 

[bearcreek]

But that's not really the point, it's about being ok with a 21 year old being able to buy a gun and strap it on his hip and carry it around without requiring any experience whatsoever.

I'm just not ok with that. In your home, sure, I can agree with you guys.

Sorry, that's part of the price of freedom. Freedom trumps safety, and I'll fight for that, just like many of our ancestors did 250 years ago. You need a different job.

 

[JO JO]

I to would be against it , I do think the counter folks at most gun stores could
use a class, the majority of gun counter folks I see know nothing about guns or
ammo and they are the ones giving advise to first time owners

 

[Hanzo581]

Sorry, that's part of the price of freedom. Freedom trumps safety, and I'll fight for that, just like many of our ancestors did 250 years ago. You need a different job.

A change in job wouldn't change my view. You have every right to personal freedoms....until they infringe on or endanger mine. I'll use free speech as an example again....you can't yell fire in a crowded theater or verbally threaten someone's life...there are limitation to all freedoms.

As for those saying this would get out of hand and it would cost crazy money to take said course.....that hasn't happened yet with all the states that require classes for concealed carry, why would this be any different?

I to would be against it , I do think the counter folks at most gun stores could
use a class, the majority of gun counter folks I see know nothing about guns or
ammo and they are the ones giving advise to first time owners

Absolutely correct. I have heard plenty of incorrect and potentially dangerous info spouted out by gun shop "experts".

 

[JO JO]

concealed carry and buying a gun for home defense,target shooting,hunting and
so on is very different , I believe concealed carry class are more about laws and when or when not to shoot very different in my opinion

 

[Ed Ames]

So I have a simple mindset question for people like the OP.

Why is it that you instantly leap to the idea of forcing people to do something? Do you believe it is the best way to get cooperation?

It is very easily argued that bad cooking accidentally kills far more people than guns. No, I'm not joking. 48 million get sick, 128,000 are hospitalized, and 3000 US residents die every year due to direct foodborne illness, and that isn't counting obesity, diabetes, hypertension, and many other contributors to mortality that are are caused by poor cooking habits. That is in contrast to about 600 accidental firearms deaths per year.

Do you think it would be effective to force people to take a basic cooking class? Pass a law that you cannot buy groceries unless you have taken at least an 8 hour food safety course, and can't buy high risk groceries (fats/oil, meat, salt, sugar, etc) without an additional 20 hour course?

Would it work? Would people actually respect the knowledge you forced down their throats? Would the curriculum stay unbiased or would special interests say "if I can get my product worked into the curriculum I can boost sales" and fight to warp the message to serve their interests? Would the outcome be worth not just the substantial dollar costs, but the social costs as well?

And do you honestly think that if you forced that training on everyone who bought groceries, that would mean that everyone who cooked would be trained?

Here's a clue: I lived in a state that had mandatory training to buy a firearm. I also had access to firearms long before I ever actually bought one of my own and so was forced to pay that tax...and it was a tax. I had to pay $25 to watch a video and answer a simple test. I didn't know a single thing more afterwards than i did before but i was $25 poorer.

Here's another clue: most people resent being forced to do something. Resentment doesn't foster learning. So your basic approach of forcing people to do something is counterproductive. There are even people who choose to do the exact opposite of what they are forced to do, because they were forced, meaning that your authoritarian approach is likely to result in active adoption of unsafe behaviors by a subset of those you force, quite possibly raising the currently low accident rate.

Why wouldn't you instead work to make the information available for anyone, for free, in entertaining formats, so that the knowledge was widely disseminated? Have local police departments offer free range days where non-gun owners can learn to shoot. Fund tv programs that are like all of the healthy cooking shows, showing proper technique and safe practices? Even then people don't like to be told how to think so you need to be careful.

 

[bearcreek]

A change in job wouldn't change my view. You have every right to personal freedoms....until they infringe on or endanger mine.

Is someone forcing you to stay at this job where you feel unsafe? What "right" of yours are freedom loving Americans infringing upon by not wanting the government even further involved in regulating our basic Constitutional rights? You don't have a "right" to feel safe in a place that you don't own and are present in voluntarily. If you don't feel safe, leave. That's your right.

 

[Hanzo581]

That's the issue...no you shouldn't have to have training in safe food handling to cook at home. But when you are making food for others outside the home you are required by the health department to get said training.

But the point is taken, people still get sick from eating in restaurants despite this mandatory training.

However, I can't say I'd feel better if they said "oh well, no one is going to learn from this training, so we'll drop the requirement".