opinion on steel case ammo

[fishblade2]

I was wondering what you guys though about using steel case ammo over brass. Especially with calibers such as .308 the cheaper prices is an incentive to buy the steel case but I've heard that it's dirtier ammo. I know that steel can't be reloaded either but overall is there any damage done to your gun over time of shooting steel case? Does anyone have lengthy experience with steel case ammo and found that it jams your gun more? Lastly when I was shooting some steel case ammo through one of my pistols it was shooting everywhere!!! So how much is accuracy affected by using the steel cases? Any inputs of experiences would be great? Thanks for all the help!

 

[Texan Scott]

If it works in YOUR gun, and your local gun range won't ban you for it, go head. If you're shooting an auto, maybe it makes more difference... only semi-autorifle ive ever owned was a 10/22, so steel vs. brass cases means a hill of beans to me.

 

[TurtlePhish]

Steel cased ammo is produced to a lower quality standard than most brass, but it's usually pretty reliable stuff. It's fine for plinking on the cheap, but not too good for much else. It IS much dirtier stuff, but if you clean well it's not a problem, and usually won't affect function. It shouldn't jam any more than brass- the way the steel for the cases is produced, it ends up about as soft as brass cases, just less flexible (which leads to the "do not reload" part of steel). If you want proof of the reliability, just look at what military AKs have been shooting for decades.

 

[Hizzie]

I have no problems with steel cased ammo. It is a budget friendly ammo that while filthy, has proven 100% reliable in each of my firearms. Most ranges out here act like you are trying to give them herpes and ban it.

 

[Ar180shooter]

Steel cased ammo is generally of poorer quality, but not always. It tends to be dirtier, so this makes for slightly more maintenance, but IMO it can be worth the savings in cost. Hornady makes match grade steel ammo, and it shoots quite well, and is quite clean.

 

[gbeecher]

Steel is steel and brass is brass...

I have a Mosin-Nagant 1891/30 and shoot nothing but steel cased ammo. I've shot 150 rounds of steel case, 203 grain soft-point ammo made in Russia by Bear Ammunition (Barnaul Machine Tool Building Plant). I've had no problems with either lacquer coated steel case or the zinc plated steel case. As far as 'dirty' is concerned, it depends mostly on the primer type. Most modern new manufactured ammo uses either Berdan or Boxer priming, and the primer powder is non-corrosive or lightly corrosive. Older military surplus ammo often used corrosive primers. The corrosive primers contain a salt (potassium chloride?), that if left in contact with steel, will attract moisture and of course moisture will rust metal, especially steel. In the end, just remember to clean your firearm after shooting and inspect it regularly. Case material and primer compound should not be a huge factor - proper gun maintenence is!

 

[HGM22]

I think its usually fine for most things. I wouldn't run it in a high dollar match gun, but it should be fine in most other guns. I wouldn't even think to worry a bit about running it in a "Commie" gun like the AK, SKS, Mosin, etc.

Some are concerned that the harder steel will wear the gun faster, but the steel stuff is usually coated/plated anyway. Its also soft steel. Some are also concerned the lacquer coating melts/flakes off and gums up the gun, but I'm pretty sure this is pretty rare. I also think the lacquer has been largely discontinued.

 

[hang fire]

One million + German and their allies were whacked with steel cased ammo in WW2 on the Eastern Front, they never knew the difference or would have cared, if it was steel or brass case cartridges which took their lives.

I recently watched a documentary about Brest Fortress in the opening days of Operation Barbarossa, where the Russian soldiers unexpectedly put up a fierce resistance to the German attack.

One German veteran said the during the battle, Russian snipers did great execution at long range in taking out German officers. (with steel cased 7.62x54)

 

[TurtlePhish]

One million + German and their allies were whacked with steel cased ammo in WW2 on the Eastern Front, they never knew the difference or would have cared, if it was steel or brass case cartridges which took their lives.

I recently watched a documentary about Brest Fortress in the opening days of Operation Barbarossa, where the Russian soldiers unexpectedly put up a fierce resistance to the German attack.

One German veteran said the during the battle, Russian snipers did great execution at long range in taking out German officers. (with steel cased 7.62x54)

I'm pretty sure 7.62x54r was brass cased during WWII and was changed to steel during the Cold War era.

 

[Deus Machina]

Steel cases are a cost-cutting measure. Take that as you will.
I've yet to find one that doesn't feed and fire just like brass in my guns, but it's usually not as accurate.

 

[hang fire]

turtlephish: I'm pretty sure 7.62x54r was brass cased during WWII and was changed to steel during the Cold War era.

Think have read where Soviet 7.62x54 copper washed steel cases were first issued in 1934.

Know before war's end the Germans were using steel cartridge cases.

Also IIRC, the US made and used some .45 acp steel cartridge cases during WW2.

 

[caribou]

Both the Soviet Union used copper washed and Germany used laquer steel cased ammo, and it was much complained about by MG-42 gunners, who used large quantitys, in short ammounts of time.

The Germans looked into this and found that the steel did not keep its expansion /seal in the chamber mouth, and allowed sunstantial ammounts of soot to build up and cases to stick after a spell. They issed a chamber scraper and as many spare barrels as possible.

Same happens in a Mosin when its not cleaned, and corrosive primeing adds to the problem, if you dont clean it. Shooting brass cased ammo keeps the 'Sticky bolt' away in a Mosin for a while longer than the steel with its cleaner chamber tendencys.

 

[Slamfire]

Rifles that went through a proper development period should shoot steel case or brass case without a problem.

Dirt in the chamber is a different issue.

A proper development period examines all the issues associated with pressure, extraction, case hardness, case clearance. Case dimensions and hardness are adjusted so that the case feeds and extracts. If you don't know, both the expansion of the case and chamber are calculated and adjusted so that there is clearance between at the end of the pressure cycle.



Rifles and cartridges that did not go through an appropriate development will have issues with case materials. The AR15 and 223 Remington are an example.

The .223 Remington was a wild cat developed by a bunch of guys at Bob Hutton's ranch. These guys did not have the analytical capability nor the money to thoroughly wring out all the variables of hardness, taper, expansion, pressure, etc. You can read all the issues they created here:

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/index.html

Report of the M16 Review Panel Appendix 4 Appendix 4 Ammunition Development Program.
Report of the M16 Rifle Review Panel Volume 7 Appendix 6 review and analysis of M16 System Reliability.
Report of the M16 Review Panel Appendix 5 Procurement
Report of the M16 Review Panel Appendix 7 Vietnam Surveys
Report of the M16 Panel appendix 10 the small arms program
Report of the M16 Review Panel Summary Report.

So what you read, in lots of posts on forums, is shooters having issues with steel cases in their AR15’s. That is all due to the cartridge being a wildcat and the developers not examining steel as a case material, and adjusting case parameters for reliable function.

You don’t read the same issues with 7.62 X 39 ammunition as the Russians intended to use steel case from the beginning.

So, older legacy systems that were designed with brass as the only case material may have issues with steel.

 

[fishblade2]

okay so most people agree that the steel case ammo is cheaper and reliable from what they have seen but how does it affect accuracy for those who have shot tons of it and not just out of the "commie" guns but also modern guns.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I've shot thousands of rounds of steel 9mm, 5.56 & 7.62x39 with no problems. It's not match grade but neither are most shooters, including myself. Clean and oil your guns every once and a while and you will be fine.

 

[TurtlePhish]

okay so most people agree that the steel case ammo is cheaper and reliable from what they have seen but how does it affect accuracy for those who have shot tons of it and not just out of the "commie" guns but also modern guns.

It's simply less accurate ammo, usually made to a lower standard than brass cased. It won't change the inherent accuracy of your rifle any more than brass cased ammo. The steel case doesn't affect the bore in any way. If you shoot a ton of it, I'm sure it'll wear out the barrel, but so will the same amount of brass. Steel cased ammo is produced for shooting a lot on the cheap, not for match-grade accuracy. If it was produced to the same quality standards as some fancy supermatch ammo, I'm sure it would be just as accurate.

 

[mljdeckard]

Just remembet, it ws made with economy in mind. This means that it won't have tight QC and loading standards. It was also really imtended for high-volume use in cheaper guns, so accuracy isn't gteat concern.

My personal policy is, I use it in Russian guns. Modern polymer-frame autos are fine for it, because they were made for high endurance and longevity. An AR that is set up for duty use, wi th a chrome lined chamber and bore, you will probably never see a difference in performance. It will be dirtier, because the steel doesn't expand to seal the chamber as well as brass, and more of everything leaks out.

I'm not using it in my grandfather's M-1 carbine.

 

[briansmithwins]

I wouldn't worry so much about the possible damage from steel case ammo as the damage that happens from the white hot plasma eating the throat out of your barrel every time you pull the trigger.

BSW

 

[mljdeckard]

I'll put it this way. If I had another M-1, I would beat it up and whatever I wanted to with it. But I don't.

 

[Bushpilot]

I'll use steel in a SKS or a beater AK (especially if they're chrome-lined) or in any inexpensive rifle like a Mosin. Afterall, in a Mosin the difference between a couple hundred rounds of steel vs brass ammo roughly equals the price of the rifle. But, I won't use steel in any rifle that I really care about.

 

[wnycollector]

I shoot steal case ammo exclusively in my Russian rifles in 5.45x39, 7.62x39 and 7.62x54. I also do a vast majority of my AR shooting with Brown Bear 55gr FMJBT ammo. I find that the accuracy of the steel case BB ammo to be on par with typical M193 ammo (4" vs 3.5"). Yes, steel cased russian ammo is dirty, but saving ~30% on the cost vs brass makes it worth it.

 

[TonyAngel]

When shooting my AR, I'll usually go for the steel cased stuff first. They Siver Bear stuff that I usually shoot, shoots just like M193; but it's cheaper and I don't feel like I should be picking up the cases.

 

[caribou]

I use wolf in .223 when shooting steel cased ammo in a moder AK, as well as steel through a couple AKs in 7.62X39.

Czeck steel cased 147 grain Light ball in 7.62X54R through my M-39 is exceptionaly accurate and consistant. Its all I use when makeing my liveing as a Hunter, where placement is everything.

 

[Roadking Rider]

Only use steel cased ammo in the Yugo SKS 7.62 x39 and the Mosin Nagant 91/30 7.62 x54r as they're military weapons that were designed to use steel cased ammo from the get go. The Garand, Mini 14, and 30/30 get brass cased ammo only. Couldn't even begin to tell you if they even make steel cased ammo for a Garand or a 30/30.

I have a friend that reloads the 223's for me.

 

[brnmuenchow]

I don't have any experience with .308 Win. in steel case, but I have heard of some people having quality control issues with it. As far as Russian rifle calibers go I have never had any issues. Pistol calibers also I have not had any issues with either, some guns can be a little more temperamental with steel over brass though, I say if your rifle will fire it...shoot it.