Opinions on Kel-tec su-16* for 3gun rifle?

[Cryogaijin]

I'm thinking of getting into 3gun, and in talking with a couple people, they recommend something lighter and lower on recoil than my present semi-auto, a Saiga .308. So I am wondering about the suitability of the su-16 (and which version of it!) for 3gun? Should I get an A with the 18.5 barrel, or the b/ca with the 16"? Is it accurate enough? And what sight should I use?

 

[Smaug]

First, confirm that typical rifle rounds are allowed. In my local three gun, only pistol caliber carbines with non-magnum, non +P ammo are allowed.

Second: I like the CA model. I like the more rugged front sight design (on the gas block, not the cheap barrel mount). I don't mind that it won't fire when folded. To me, the folded position is just for storage. Speaking of storage, I like that it still has the storage stock for mags.

The only real thing wrong with it is that the price is now into Mini-14 territory, due to lack of supply. The new Mini-14s are better rifles, IMO.

For sights, try the stock aperture sights first. A small 4X may be in order.

If you're limited to pistol caliber carbines, consider the Sub2000 instead.

I went with a Marlin 1894 for my three gun rifle. I love the feel of it, but haven't shot it yet, due to a manufacturing defect. (buy a used older model, if you're smart, as quality has gone down recently)


"Well begun is half done."
-Aristotle

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

there are better guns for 3-gun, and not many worse.

 

[merlinfire]

there are better guns for 3-gun, and not many worse.

I'm curious as to the reasoning myself, what makes a good 3-gun firearm?

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

It needs to be reliable enough to make it through the stage, and durable enough to train with. The SU-16 is neither.

 

[merlinfire]

It needs to be reliable enough to make it through the stage, and durable enough to train with. The SU-16 is neither.

Is this based on experience? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious how you came to this conclusion.

 

[KingMedicine]

Personally, my Su-16 is a great gun. Never had a missfire and is accurate enough to hit what im aiming at. The only thing that might slow me down to think that it might be good for this use is, It does not handle rapid shots very well. The barrel can get super hot with a minimal amount of use. Since its not a assault rifle and is made as a survival rifle, its been known to break from getting too hot from gunning it.

Mind you, nothing has broke on mine, but i have kept rapid fire to a minimum.

 

[Zak Smith]

Here ya go


article | Evolution of the 3-Gun Practical Rifle

 

[Cryogaijin]

Hrrm. Very good and interesting Zak. Looks like I'd probably enjoy He-man more than the standard formats though. . .

 

[merlinfire]

Good article

 

[jmorris]

If you are just wanting to play around anything will work. Other than that you will have some sort of an AR for your rifle.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

What rifle would you use for self defense at home? If it's your current .308, then I'd reccomend you take that to the match to learn the pros and cons of using it. You will have a lot of fun and you will learn more about your self-defense rifle. Who cares if you will win or not? You will have lots of fun.

 

[Cryogaijin]

What rifle would you use for self defense at home?

Either my 10mm or my saiga 12. Rifle is overkill where I live.

 

[1stmarine]

Cryogaijin,
The Keltec is a great system. I am not sure about long sustained high rate of fire but most of the barrels out there Keltec or not could be burned if not careful.
I have several AKs and ARs and one fact about the keltec is that it is super reliable and accurate as a good AR. (the C and CA models.)
I have done some limited torture testing of my own and find the carbine to be well built, reliable, with good accuracy and affordable. Keltec do a great customer service with anything you need. The weight you can put on them I call meaningful weight. Definitely very light, a great defense, bush, ship dog and scout carbine. A do it all do it pretty well with some innovative features.
I still need to find a round, steel, brass, surplus, NATO, milder, hotter that will not cycle through the keltec 100%.
I am not sure about this for 3 gun matches but if you do not try you do not know. It shoots below MOA with 69 SMKs.

Read this....
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=559476

If not this I would consider a mil spec barebones AR-15 with a M-16 BCG & good quality mill spec M4 or 20" NM barrel. The most important aspect is the internals. RRA and Delton have good ones at good prices.

Cheers,
E.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I'm very interested to know how many rounds you have through your SU-16 that you would deem it "super reliable." At a recent one-day rifle class, the shooter on the line to my left had an SU-16 that malfunctioned nearly 20 times in 500 rounds. This has been the typical level of reliability I've seen from Kel-Tec carbines at the range.

-C

 

[1stmarine]

5K+ rounds in one and 2K+ rounds in another sir. Another one unfired.
I bought them as soon as they came out. I shoot about 10K rounds of standard .223 / year.
Another gentleman mentioned in one post that had 7K rounds w/o cleaning and chugging along like day one (done on purpose). Similar reports from many many others.
You will hardly hear any bad reports on these carbines. I don't need any report from anyone, I already have my experiences with them. These carbines had the similar initial reaction as when the Glock first came out? A plastic carbine?
If you see many failing you must be the only one in the entire world. Tell your friend to send it in, Keltec has a great customer service. All proudly made here in the USA. Tell him Keep in mind that they have a few FTF in the first mags until they are broken in. Then they never fail no matter what.

Cheers.
E.

 

[1stmarine]

Here I found a good review on the carbine where they mention the issue I just told you about....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC9MnUGeX0k&playnext=1&list=PL3F99765E49C58D25

Here a guy that did a torture testing...
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1107839748/0

 

[HD_Ride]

I'm very interested to know how many rounds you have through your SU-16 that you would deem it "super reliable."

So would I, that’s why I bought two of them. I'm very happy with my purchases. Is the SU16’s the best gun out there, probably not but I will tell you there isn't anything more fun to shoot. I don’t know what happened to your range buddy but if I had the funds and the time I shoot them both all day long because they are that much fun, and yes very accurate.

Here’s few more vids for your perusal:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5935333007505323905&q=KEL+TEC&hl=en#
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...905&q=KEL+TEC&hl=en#docid=-318429531363260802

 

[IslandTimes]

Mine has been great. After the first mag or so I haven't had a single FTF or FTE. Only thing is you can't use steel case ammo, but mine has worked flawlessly with every other kind of brass cased ammo that I've been able to put my hands on. Accuracy is great too, bullets go right where I want them.

Biggest complaint I've heard is that these rifles are too fragile to carry around and use. Well I can tell you that mine has been used and overly abused and she's doing just fine.

 

[1stmarine]

IslandTimes,
I haven't tried tossing the system out the window but most likely an aluminum receiver will crack and a polymer will stay in one piece.
A lot of the opinions out there are based on other's opinions, that are based on other's opinions and so forth. We have 1st hand experience with them and these can be neglected an abused and still shoot like day one. I do not neglect them but the torture tests and rounds counts others are doing speak by themselves.
The folks I know use them with steel cases w/o problems, even the lacquered ones I used occasionally for plinknin and had shot about 1K of them w/o any stoppages. Some dud's that is expected with russian puffins of course.
I did hear some tula ammo being stuck but this was not in the keltec but in any system due a really bad batch quality problem with the ammo (out of spec) and not a problem with the system itself.
Keltec cut their own barrels and the NATO chambering has been pretty consistent but it never hurts running a gauge to verify.
I do this with every system. Even expensive AR's sometimes are out of spec.
Cheers.
E.

 

[TonyAngel]

I almost picked up a Keltec, but the FAQ on Keltec's website cites the life of the rifle as being 6000 rounds or more. I would imagine that the actual life will depend on how you shoot it. If shooting and practicing for three gun, you're going to be shooting a lot. There's a reason that most guys shoot ARs for three gun.

 

[1stmarine]

6,000 is well passed by many folks. Some they are getting to the 10K or even past that w/o any issues. My oldest is in that path I think too. Any barrel not matter what system will start to see some reduction in accuracy after 5K to 8K rounds depending on the load, speed, rate of fire and other factors but for most use it will continue to be a good use. Chromed helps with that and all keltecs are chrome lined from factory.
If proper preventive maintenance is done as with any system it should give even a much longer life of service. Ejector, Springs, firing pin, etc... All really inexpensive parts for both Keltec as well as ARs.
It is not unusual for a soldier in Irak to go through 3 or 4 barrels in a single tour but I am pretty sure some are replaced before it is needed.
I agree with you: there's a reason that most guys shoot ARs for three gun but also there is no reason to totally reject a Keltec like some do based on lack of information of misinformation. In the end everything should be shooting what they believe they are going to be better with or feels more comfortable but also sometimes something that provides the right balance between performance and budget.
Keltec will replace your barrel and also keep in mind the cost of the total system is below the price of some AR barrels out there. Of course we cannot compare with the best AR but these are chrome lined and seem to be holding pretty well.
I do not work for Keltec or have any interest in endorsing them. What I tell you is based on first hand experience and in good faith.
Cheers,
E.