opinions on manual safety for ccw

[MPGatorVet]

First post, so be kind... I have been trolling the boards for a short time and have been very impressed with the knowlege and insights in these forums.

I currently own and love my S&W 1911 .45 and also have a Sig mosquito .22 for plinking (and getting my wife used to shooting- although she now prefers the 1911 as well and is pretty darned good with it!) . I have also seen that the latter is not a favorite among members -oh well...

I am looking at getting a S&W J frame revolver for a CCW and have recently considered the S&W 9mm M&P compact as well. I love the way this 9mm feels and shoots. I have heard some say they need a manual safety on a carry weapon and others say that you don't want to have to worry about the extra step of removing the safety. The DA trigger on the revolver precludes this concern but I figured I would defer to the experience/ opinions of the THR community regarding carrying a (holstered) 9mm with a round in the chamber and no safety.

Any opinions/ advice/ experiences would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance; I am honored to be a member of such a community!

 

[D-Man]

The M&P is designed to be carried with a round chambered, so as long as you practice safe gun handling and have a good holster, there shouldn't be any causes for concern.

There are schools of thoughts on both sides of the safety issue....but it all boils down to whichever way you go you need to practice until you are 100% confident in your abilities. So if you carry a 1911, make sure when you draw you're aware that the safety needs to come off.

 

[Jimmie]

If you are going to carry with a manual safety, TRAIN WITH IT. Make it so second nature that it's not even a thought when you draw. Get to where you reach for a safety on every other gun you shoot, even your J frame.

99% of modern firearms are safe to carry with no manual safety engaged. Just don't pull the trigger and it won't fire. And carry in a quality holster that blocks the trigger guard.

 

[MPGatorVet]

the 1911 is really just too darned big to carry outside the house much at all. That's why I am looking at the other 2 (both?!) options for carry.

 

[Snarlingiron]

While I realize that many people do not feel comfortable with guns that do not have manual safeties, for me the presence of one disqualifies the weapon for consideration. I have a Hi Power which has a 1911 style safety, but since I obtained a Glock 19, and have done a good deal of training and practice with it, I now think that anything you have to do in order to bring the weapon into the fight is too much. I carry the Glock nearly every day, with a round in the chamber and do not feel unsafe in any way. While I am a Glock fan, I plan to try the M&P at my first opportunity.

 

[RNB65]

It's purely a matter of personal preference. I personally would not conceal carry any handgun with a manual safety. Don't like 'em, don't need 'em.

 

[shadowalker]

I went through a phase of preferring manual safeties, none of my carry weapons have them. The manual safety is one more thing to forget to turn on or off.

I have seen people forget to flick manual safeties off under very minor amounts of stress, and also seen people act in extremely unsafe ways because the safety was on.

If you do choose to carry one with a safety make it a part of your draw to flip it off and get that in muscle memory.

A good holster that prevents things from snagging the trigger and exercising proper technique make carrying without a manual safety very safe, there is a poll on here that shows the majority of negligent discharges happen when the weapon owner pulls the trigger.

If you'd like to try seeing what carrying without a manual safety is like unload and verify that it is unloaded, then carry with your safety off, hammer back for a few days around the house.

 

[jkbeeman]

Opinion

I agree with no safety if the gun has its own safety measures built in like the glock, I have the glock19 and love it. I also carry two others at times depending on dress and occasion. For night jobs, its the glock, for casual its my pt380 keltec with a belt/boot clip, and for "better than nothing", its the naa 22lr.

 

[HungSquirrel]

I have a manual safety on my carry weapon, although I would probably prefer to have a gun without a manual safety for carry. The reason I don't own one sans safety is I haven't found an inexpensive auto without a safety that felt good in my hand and was concealable.

 

[craig_o]

I personally don't see a problem with it.

Where it is dictates where your thumb gravitates to during the draw, so if it's in an awkward or unnatural position you could have it replaced with something larger in many cases (1911/Hi-Power being prime examples).

I qualified for my CHL with a range-owned Hi-Power and part of the drill was engaging and disengaging the manual safety for each string of shots... taking it off safe was easy, back on was harder. This is a problem with some Hi-Powers, but an extended safety lever would have made it even easier on both sides.

As nervous as I was qualifying, I never forgot to operate it. I wouldn't hesitate to carry cocked and locked with some practice (I'd want to practice the draw with ANY gun about a gazillion times regardless), though it certainly bears some thought. Finally, I wouldn't buy a gun with a safety for anyone in my family because they wouldn't be naturally inclined to practice.

 

[chris in va]

It's just muscle memory under duress. If you're used to it, no problem.

Personally I'm not, so none of my carry guns have safeties.

 

[10-Ring]

My current favorites in the CCW catagory are the lightweight j-frames, polyguns like the USPc 45, PM 9 and 45 and the Glock 19.
As long as you use a good quality holster that will protect the trigger, you'll be fine

Oh, welcome to THR

 

[DAVE RICHARDS]

The general advice is if you carry a weapon cocked and locked you should stick with that weapon sothe manual of arms is instinctive. I prefer what I call "pull, point (aim), and shoot pistols. KISS is good under a high stress situation. I have carried Glocks, XD's, Sigs, and so on with no problems. As others have said the newer autos are made to be carried loaded. Just make sue especially with a Glock you use a holster that covers the triggerguard.
And their have been instances of people not releasing the safety under stress and paying dearly for it. If Glocks make you nervous go with a DA/SA gun like the Sig. The first long DA pull means you are meaning to pull the trigger. The only real safety or lack thereof is between someones ears.

 

[sm]

Safety is between the ears, not on the gun itself.


Once training is taken, and quality practice of said training is continued, safety/lack of safety on firearms is less of a concern.

 

[1911 guy]

Proper drawstroke.

Learning proper drawstroke will make all your problems go away. No, I'm not being a jerk, just passing on good info.

A proper stroke begins with a firing grip on the handgun while still in the holster. This places your thumb over the safety. A very handy place to have it to press it downward before the muzzle even rotates to the target. Proper stroke also indexes your index finger alongside the frame, so there is no danger of accidentaly firing until you mean to. Most people (not just you, so don't feel bad) don't know how to draw a handgun effectively, so this mole hill gets made into a mountain.

The more you learn to use a 1911, the more you'll like it. Oh, with a good belt and holster, it's definately not too big to ccw. I get this from people all the time at the range and classes. I then proceed to dump a full size 1911, two knives, flashlight, kubotan and two reloads from my "unarmed" person. My wife has to frisk me to know that I'm carrying. Not that I mind.

 

[Will Fennell]

its simple for me.....

I can and do use both types, but I would rather have a handgun with a GOOD TRIGGER, and a manual safety, than one with no safety and a crappy trigger.

I prefer 1911's and BHP's.

 

[Exmasonite]

i was slightly concerned with this when I first got into handguns ~3 yrs ago. I looked at "good" (reliable, not finicky, etc) polymer pistols (Glock, Springfield XD, Sig). I couldn't get over the grip angle of the glock. The sig was a little too $$ and the XD just felt great. While i didn't REQUIRE any sort of manual safety, I also really like the grip safety on the Xd. Added security yet doesn't require my mind to do that extra step when/if that "real" moment ever comes.

So, it doesn't have a true "manual" safety but that gun is only going off it it's in my hand and i'm pulling the trigger.

It does take lots of practice and awareness. I was nervous enough at first that I carried a snapcap in the chamber for the first few weeks to make sure that i wouldn't actually trigger the firing mechanism somehow. ( i didn't).

Haven't fired the S&W but have heard good things. There are lots of options out there for you. Go out there and get your hands on lots of guns.

If you're interested in something w/ a manual safety, H&K USP compact is right up there with the best, too.

Good luck!

 

[redneckrepairs]

I am apathetic on the safety issue , but then i carried a 1911 enough years that i " wipe the safety " on my kahrs and p7 hk lol .

 

[jmancini]

Like they said. If you're really used to 1911-style safety, and you always always always wipe the safety off when you draw no matter what, then carry a gun that works the same way - the Springfield EMP 9mm would be great for that kind of thing, or some other subcompact 1911.

If you ever forget to take the safety off, it could cost you your life. If you're not comfortable with that, carry a PHD (Push Here, Dummy) gun like the Glock, Kahr, or P2000.

Since I haven't trained extensively with the 1911 manual of arms and safety, I won't carry one. I have trained with my Glock, so that's what I carry.

Just my $0.02.

 

[redneckrepairs]

PHD i love that description , except wouldnt it be pull here dummy ?? and as noted above i now carry kahrs or p7 hk which would be PHD guns all lol .

 

[copaup]

Six of one, half dozen of the other. Train with whatever you choose and keep your finger off the trigger and the gun won't go off. I tend to steer new shooters to either a double action revolver or Glock due to the point and click simplicity. The few pistols I own with a manual safety I carry safety off (no 1911s currently, those get carried safety on).

 

[usp9]

As an advocate of the K.I.S.S philosophy, I prefer no controls other than a trigger and maybe a decocker on a CCW. Currently that means a HK P2000SK and a Seecamp. I've carried in the past a Sig P232 and a P7 PSP.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I am apathetic on the safety issue , but then i carried a 1911 enough years that i " wipe the safety " on my kahrs and p7 hk lol

Thought I was the only one. I am constantly doing that on my Sigs. Doesn't hurt anything but it's clear how much muscle memory plays a part in things.

 

[Lonestar49]

In the same Camp

Quote: As an advocate of the K.I.S.S philosophy
------------------
...

And, ~ Less IS More ~

All my guns are decockers only, with the exception of both my 1911 Colt Defender 45 and 1911 Springfield EMP 9mm, locked and cocked.

It's between my ears, and my trigger finger, at all times.


LS

 

[KelTecian]

If you are comfortable without safeties, then don't use them or buy guns with them...if you feel the need for a manual safety...get it. Its up to you the carrier.

However if you use manual safeties...practice drawing and disabling it often and become proficient.