Opinions on using 5.56mm M-855 green tip for home defense?

[HorseSoldier]

I can find no evidence or valid rationale for intentionally targeting the pelvic area in a gunfight. The reasons against, however, are many. They include:

Body armor comes to mind as an excellent reason to target the pelvic region, though I don't think Fackler is concerned with tactical issues so much as physiology in the quoted post, and seems to be arguing against targetting the pelvis as a primary target with a handgun, not a secondary target with a carbine or rifle for a failure drill.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Body armor comes to mind as an excellent reason to target the pelvic region, though I don't think Fackler is concerned with tactical issues so much as physiology in the quoted post, and seems to be arguing against targetting the pelvis as a primary target with a handgun, not a secondary target with a carbine or rifle for a failure drill.

Yes, he is arguing handgun rounds; but I think most of those arguments are going to be valid for rifle rounds too.

A rifle round may do more bone damage; but it is unlikely to break the pelvic girdle in two places to the degree mentioned.

It will also have a larger wound channel; but you'll still have two laterally diverging arteries that carry less blood than some of the available targets in the torso.

And while the head is a more mobile target, there are more critical structures there (and they are also easier to target) than the pelvis. I couldn't tell you where in the pelvis to even aim to maximize my chances to hit an artery or break a bone to the degree it would stop mobility.

I'd be interested in hearing people who do teach a pelvic shot explain why they adopt that approach; but it looks to me like anatomically it is a poor choice if you have the torso or head available. On that note, if someone would like to start a new thread on that subject instead of hijacking this one, I think that would be an interesting discussion. It would be nice to have a separate good informative discussion for the library.

 

[vanilla_gorilla]

I'm using a 1:9 upper and am not sure of the capability to run 75-77 grain OTM rounds yet, but I have laid by a small stash of 64 grain Speer Gold Dot rounds. My (limited) research seems to show that these rounds are better than the OTM rounds for shooting bad people after penetrating a barrier, and while they do not tend to fragment well, they do expand very well. I've started loading my go-to mags with these instead.

 

[ugaarguy]

I'm using a 1:9 upper and am not sure of the capability to run 75-77 grain OTM rounds yet,

Hornady TAP 75 gr. says for 1:9 twist or faster on the box. I don't know how it would do in extremes of temperature, humidity, wind or elevation though. Other 75 gr. rounds I guess you'd just have to shoot and see.

 

[Bud Tugly]

Post deleted by Bud Tugly because of unintentional thread diversion. I apologize to Mr. Roberts and others who may have seen it.

Ignorance of posting etiquette at THR is a poor excuse, but it's the only one I can offer.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I personally would not consider using a rifle for home defense, unless I lived out in the country. The risk of over penetration is just too high. A handgun with hollow points and a shotgun with 00 are it for me. The AR stays in the safe.

 

[ugaarguy]

I personally would not consider using a rifle for home defense, unless I lived out in the country. The risk of over penetration is just too high. A handgun with hollow points and a shotgun with 00 are it for me. The AR stays in the safe.

Please go back and read the entire thread, including all linked info. Your AR with 5.56 /.223 ammo is less likely to over penetrate than a shotgun or a handgun. This is not an opinion, nor conjecture; there is plenty of test data linked to explain it.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

ONCE MORE FOR THOSE WHO MISSED IT THE FIRST TIME AROUND - Concerning the "I would use a shotgun instead" comments:

That conversation is a frequent one here and there are dozens of threads dedicated to it, including several in the Rifle Forum Reading Library. Instead of dragging this thread off topic, I would ask any THR member interested to please revive one of those if they have an interest in continuing this oft discussed topic.

Future comments on that topic in this thread will be deleted. I would hate to have to ban someone over something stupid like this, so please let's use any one of the many existing threads already in existence to discuss this (or start one with that topic if you must).

 

[dodging230grainers]

About the 75 grain BTHP;

Does anyone know if these very long rounds have magazine feeding problems, or short-stroking problems? Or are they just as reliable as 55 grain FMJ in a reliable, clean weapon?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The M4 ramps sometimes come in handy with the 75gr rounds - mostly in full auto rifles using mediocre magazines; but sometimes semi-auto rifles will see a bobble or two with weak magazine springs.

 

[variablebinary]

I'm using a 1:9 upper and am not sure of the capability to run 75-77 grain OTM rounds yet, but I have laid by a small stash of 64 grain Speer Gold Dot rounds. My (limited) research seems to show that these rounds are better than the OTM rounds for shooting bad people after penetrating a barrier, and while they do not tend to fragment well, they do expand very well. I've started loading my go-to mags with these instead.

Choose the right bullet and twist rates become meaningless. It's something far too many are hung up on.

As I said on another forum, if you had two equally trained armies seperated by a common battlefield distance of 75-100 yards, one side has Colt 6920; the opposition is armed the Colt 6721. Would victory be determined by the twist rate of barrels? Obviously not...

 

[HorseSoldier]

Does anyone know if these very long rounds have magazine feeding problems, or short-stroking problems? Or are they just as reliable as 55 grain FMJ in a reliable, clean weapon?

I've fired thousands of rounds of 77 grain Mk 262 and never had any reliability problems relating to the ammunition at all (it will, however, jam up in a bad magazine just as well as green tip and, I suppose, 55 grain as well). M4 feed ramps may, very well, help with feeding it, however -- I've never tried it in a weapon that lacked them.