opinions: when it comes to guns...

[cz75bdneos22]

mmmmhm...i've had a fascination with guns growing up around the ranch. however, i was not allowed to have one until i was 18. i then bought a .380 at a pawn shop to begin my entry to gun ownership. since then, i've owned/ fired handguns ranging in calibers fromm .22lr-10mm. i am familiar with what they are capable of doing. So, i don't hunt. i've also fired shotguns, rifles and "assault" weapons. i don't carry and would use a handgun as a last resort. with that in mind, i've always fired handguns to put rounds downrange at the 7 yard mark. i know i am a proficient shot..i just don't get the point of shooting targets at greater distances. i dunno. i've been in altercations both verbal and physical. i keep a quiet, safe and troublefree lifestyle. i don't live in a "war-like" area. therefore, i can't think of a scenario where i'd be forced to use a handgun for defensive/personal protection purposes at say 25 yds, 30 yds, 50 yds..i always wonder under what situations would ordinary folks realistically perceive having to use/have used deadly force at such distances. i'm asking the average handgun owner, no LE, military or competition shooters..so, what's your thinking? for the record, i've yet to use a handgun to defend my life. i hope i never do. YMMV..

 

[chopinbloc]

"if all you have is a hammer everything starts to look like a nail."

i'm sure you recognize the utility of carrying a handgun and understand the logic that leads some to do so. most everyone who carries regularly also understands how very unlikely it is that they would need to take a shot at 25yds. it is important to some people to be ABLE to do so, however. it is possible, anyway, that one might discover a situation where a long shot is necessary to prevent harm to someone else (a crazed gunman in a park) or even to one's self (you have been shot at and are pinned down in an empty parking lot). i personally don't train at distances longer than 10yds but i have taken shots in excess of 100yds with a 9mm pistol. at more than 100yds it was an indirect fire weapon. at 50m on an army qualification course i had no difficulty placing rounds on a human silhouette with a stock, issued m9. the only reason i mention it is to demonstrate that a good pistol is perfectly capable of delivering hits out to 50m.

 

[El Tejon]

I do not have fire extinguishers in my home because I want a fire.

I do not carry a pistol because I wish to fight.

 

[Janitor]

I do not have fire extinguishers in my home because I want a fire.

I do not carry a pistol because I wish to fight.

Yea. Right. Ok smart guy ... what about the seat belt? I suppose you're going to claim that you really don't want to get in an accident?

-

 

[cz75bdneos22]

el tejon, i think you miss the point...or i hope you jesting
otherwise, i couldn't take a walk with all the gear i would need to carry if i just thought i might need it.

 

[eagle45]

I also do most of my defensive shooting practice at the 7 to 10 yard range. However I always include some practice at 25 yards as well. Sometimes farther (like climbing the mountain - because it is there ).

Most of us have read the study of an average man being able to cover the distance of 21 feet in about 1.5 seconds. That really doesn't give a person much time, especially under stress, to draw, aim and fire if it is required. It is a good thing to know how your weapon will perform at longer distances, so an attacker could be disabled before entering that 21 feet range. It is also a good thing to know the effective range of your weapon, and your effective skill with it. Buy an extra box, or reload a few extra.

One other thought, I shoot at longer distances sometime simply because it's fun.

 

[Jubei]

el tejon, i think you miss the point...or i hope you jesting
otherwise, i couldn't take a walk with all the gear i would need to carry if i just thought i might need it.

No, El Tejon is pretty much right on the money. Both the fire extinguisher and the firearm are potential life-saving precautions. If you want to take that to the extreme and try to include everything that might save your life, then you miss the point. A fire in the home or an assault in public are both very viable threats, just watch the news (if you can stomach it).

As for shooting at distances beyond practical self-defense ranges, I can't speak for everyone, but sometimes I like to run the target out to the range maximum, just to test my abilities, or to challenge them.

Jubei

 

[El Tejon]

*kicks rocks*

Janitor, you got me. You know it is my eeevil plan to be in an accident and then end up in the hospital with hot nurses tending to me and then . . . oops, that's not suitable for children.

cz, no, I get the point. It's on the top of my head.

 

[jsalcedo]

was not allowed to have one until i was 18. i then bought a .380 at a pawn shop to begin my entry to gun ownership.

How did you buy a handgun from a pawnshop at 18?

 

[GRB]

i'm asking the average handgun owner, no LE, military or professional shooters

Do you mean to say that you believe the folks listed above in your quote are not average shooters. You are not looking for an answer from average shooters if you don't take the whole of the shooting community from which to get your average. That therefor is not average but skewed and, you implying that other folks are not average and therefore snubbing them is somewhat insulting.

 

[hillbilly]

All I will say in response is check out Jack London's great short story "To Build a Fire" which I have excerpted and linked below...........


But all this--the mysterious, far-reaching hairline trail, the absence of sun from the sky, the tremendous cold, and the strangeness and weirdness of it all--made no impression on the man. It was not because he was long used to it. He was a new-comer in the land, a chechaquo, and this was his first winter. The trouble with him was that he was without imagination. He was quick and alert in the things of life, but only in the things, and not in the significances. Fifty degrees below zero meant eighty odd degrees of frost. Such fact impressed him as being cold and uncomfortable, and that was all. It did not lead him to meditate upon his frailty as a creature of temperature, and upon man's frailty in general, able only to live within certain narrow limits of heat and cold; and from there on it did not lead him to the conjectural field of immortality and man's place in the universe. Fifty degrees below zero stood for a bite of frost that hurt and that must be guarded against by the use of mittens, ear-flaps, warm moccasins, and thick socks. Fifty degrees below zero was to him just precisely fifty degrees below zero. That there should be anything more to it than that was a thought that never entered his head.

http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Jack_London/To_Build_a_Fire/To_Build_a_Fire_p1.html

 

[hso]

As a non-professional (that's what he means by saying "average") that has never shot anyone and hopes to never have to I don't see a civilian needing to shoot a handgun defensively at ranges beyond 7 yards in most cases (based on defensive shooting statistics). That said there are 2 reasons to shoot at longer ranges that immediately leap to mind.

1) most cases aren't all cases. While lets hope that you never have to use a handgun defensively the chance exists that a deadly force situation starts within 7 yards and you don't hit your target. Does that always mean that hostilities are over and that you are safe? Not always. There is the chance that the people that just tried to kill you and failed will continue to try to kill you but from a greater distance. If you don't practice for those times then your chances of success are pretty slim. That doesn't mean that you don't practice at the median range for self defense at all, but it also does not mean that you never develop some skill to defend yourself at longer ranges. To get back to the fire extinguisher/first aid kit/spare tire analogie, you hope to never need them, but having them available is advisable if you don't want to find yourself helpless.

2) Shooting at longer distances with a handgun is more difficult than shooting at 21 feet and requires more skill. The greater the distance the greater the skill required to shoot well. I hope that you view shooting as a sport that requires skill and that you want to improve that skill. I also hope that you want to challenge your skill so that you're not doing the same old thing over and over again. Part of that is shooting at longer ranges. You'll find that when a range of 21 feet is no longer challenging a range of 30 feet is much more enjoyable to shoot at. When that is no longer a challenge 45 feet puts the spark back into it. You'll also find that once your skills are sharpened you'll also enjoy shooting at the shorter ranges just to see how tight your groups get and how you speed improves.

 

[Janitor]

You know it is my eeevil plan to be in an accident and then end up in the hospital with hot nurses tending to me and then . . .

MmmHmmm - I see how you are.

most cases aren't all cases.

yup.

Besides - I go through a LOT fewer targets if I do all my shooting at 20+ yards. :0)

 

[Werewolf]

Pay attention now cz75bdneos22. The following sums up in a sentence what everyone else here has been saying - quite eloquently IMO but with a few more words than are really necessary.

I don't have a clue who said this but he or she certainly knew what they were talking about:

Most people won't ever need a gun... but when they do - they'll really, really need it.

Take a moment to think about that - it may just save your life some day.

[shrug]On the other hand as I often say Darwin always WINS!

 

[MNgoldenbear]

We used to have a long-range pistol match as part of our 3-gun competitions at a range in Nor Cal. (Chabot, for those of you in that area.) This was unusual in that it was not meant for silhouette pistols, but for "regular" duty-type pistols, though you could bring whatever pistol you wanted -- just had to shoot the same one through all stages. The event had several strings of fire, and could involve targets from contact distance (really uncomfortable for target shooters to engage at this distance!) to 200 meters, possibly in rotation within the same string! The long-range application of a standard pistol was questioned by many. Here was one justification for one scenario -- long-range targets only:

You are out for a hike, and since you're not hunting, only brought along a trail gun -- for grins and "just in case". Suddenly, for no reason you can think of immediately (stumbled into marijuana/near meth lab? trespassing? person likes his/her privacy? etc.), someone opens fire on you from a distance, perhaps with a rifle. Do you have the ability to at least bother them enough with a pistol to make good your escape? Most found that they did. Not everyone scored a lot of hits, but while we were spotting from the firing line, we could see that most rounds were close enough to make the other person likely seek cover, giving you an opportunity to hightail it out of there. Is this a LIKELY situation on a daily basis? No. Is it POSSIBLE, given the climate in society today? Yes. Is it reassuring to know that you can help your odds significantly? Definitely!

There are applications of nearly all types of firearms for defense at nearly any range. Some are more likely than others. Some would be "once in a blue moon" type situations. But the more capable you are, the less likely you are to be left bleeding, thinking, "Gee, I really wish I had gained that extra skill." Yes, of course, this has to be balanced. You can't bring every tool with you or perpare with them for every situation. Limiting yourself to 'can hit pretty well at 21 feet' is going the other direction a bit too far, though.

Janitor:

Besides - I go through a LOT fewer targets if I do all my shooting at 20+ yards. :0)

Why? If you're only out to 25 yards, just keep shooting at the hole where the 10-ring used to be. If you see any new holes appear in the periphery, you know you're a little off.

 

[Janitor]

Why? If you're only out to 25 yards, just keep shooting at the hole where the 10-ring used to be. If you see any new holes appear in the periphery, you know you're a little off.

You know? I never considered that.

You're probably right. They're all just going through the same hole. I should try moving the sight *just* a little off and see if I can make the hole a bit larger.

-

 

[Justin]

I find a great deal of satisfaction knowing that I am capable of shooting fairly tight groups at 25 meters, single handed, with a pistol.

Two handed, I can hit a human-sized target even further.

Sure, practice seven yards, and the ability to shoot quick, but let's face it. Shooting at such short distances is b o o o o o r i n g.

 

[f4t9r]

I would not think you would have to shoot any farther than 10 yds
in defensive battle but you never know what you might run into. Expect the unexpected.
It is a good idea to practice a few longer shots just in case and for the challenge

 

[Dr.Rob]

Justin... unless you bring a really big gun.

I often shoot bowling pins with a 22 pistol at 100 yards... I've hunted with a handgun, sure but I'd say my 'practical accuracy' with a defensive handgun is 25 yards or so... but it depends on the handgun. Target sights make a big difference in long range shooting.

 

[Sean85746]

I practice at 25 yards and beyond, not because I expect to have to make a long shot like that. I do it because I really enjoy the challenge of it. Pure and simple...I like shooting, and I really like to see just how far I can kill the paper plate!

I practice drills from the holster out to about 10 yards or so....but for just the plain fun of it...nothing is more fun than ringing the 10" steel gong my friend and I put up 50yds away from my shooting bench. Especially if you can do it consistently, rather than occaisionally.

Have fun, man, have fun.

 

[Standing Wolf]

i just don't get the point of shooting targets at greater distances.

Try it. You'll soon find it's extremely difficult to hold thirty shots in a three-inch group at twenty-five yards.

Some people embrace difficulty. Most people just turn on the idiot box.

 

[Alex45ACP]

It's fun at the range, but I think you'd be in some serious legal trouble if you shot someone from that kind of distance. I usually practice at 50 feet.

 

[Sunray]

"...forced to use a handgun for defensive/personal protection..." Your right. In most places, you have to be in imminent fear of personal harm. Possibly protecting another person. At 25 plus yards, you aren't, unless the bad guy has a rifle. Shoot a bad guy without a rifle at 25 yards and you'll likely be arrested and charged.
However, not all shooting is self-defence practice. NRA target shooting is done at 25 and 50 yards. Target shooting is fun and you meet a whole bunch of great people.
"...Have fun, man, have fun..." Exactly.

 

[Berek]

"I demand to be clean! I have insurance! I demand a spnge bath from a 90 pound, 4'11" tall oreintal readhead every 5 minutes!!! And clean the twins reeeaaal good!"

Actually, there have been a few times in my past that I had wished for an "equalizer". In a couple of cases, it was in the city and they were as I was getting into my car in a well lit, patrolled parking lot. Fat lotta good the rent-a-cops did. If it weren't for my military training, I would have become another victim. Another was 3 to 1. Wrong neighborhood, didn't know. Wasn't my city.

And I don't carry a condom because I want an STD.

Berek

 

[Beethoven]

i just don't get the point of shooting targets at greater distances. i dunno. i've been in altercations both verbal and physical. i keep a quiet, safe and troublefree lifestyle. i don't live in a "war-like" area. therefore, i can't think of a scenario where i'd be forced to use a handgun for defensive/personal protection purposes at say 25 yds, 30 yds, 50 yds..i always wonder under what situations would ordinary folks realistically use/have used deadly force at such distances. i'm asking the average handgun owner, no LE, military or professional shooters..so, what's your thinking? for the record, i've yet to use a handgun to defend my life. i hope i never do. YMMV..

1) If you can shoot well at greater distances and practice shooting at great distances, your short-range shooting will greatly improve.

2) I don't know why I might have to take a shot at 25 or 50 yards. I also don't know if, when, or where I'll be caught in a situation in which I'll need to defend my life, which is why I carry a gun all the time.