Pizza Hut coming around, or no?

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mljdeckard

mljdeckard

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A few years ago, we had our feathers ruffled when Pizza hut fired a delivery driver who used a legally concealed weapon to defend his life, because carrying a gun violated company policy. Pizza Hut has been on my crap list ever since.

Just got this story in America's First Freedom today:

"With a gun to his face, a Pizza Hut cashier stuffed several hundred dollars into a bag. Hearing the commotion, police say a delivery man with a concealed-carry permit crouched in the back of the store. When the robber walked towards him, the delivery man gave a verbal warning. Instead, the robber went for his gun, forcing the deliveryman to draw his 9mm handgun and fire a shot. The robber will be arrested pending his release from the hospital. (The Herald Bulletin, Anderson Indiana, 12/24/09.)"

What comes to mind, (other than the dreadful writing style used,) is that I hadn't heard anything about this guy being fired. Did Pizza Hut grow a brain? Or is it that this just didn't generate enough publicity for them to feel that they needed to fire him?
 
from The Harold Bulletin - Dec. 28, 2009 :

Spencer R. Simmons, 44, of Beech Grove, was released from Wishard Hospital in Indianapolis at about 10 a.m. Anderson police Sgt. William Casey said Simmons was “brought to APD, and gave a full confession to his participation” in Wednesday night’s attempted armed robbery of the Pizza Hut restaurant on Broadway in Anderson.

Simmons was held on $40,000 bond in the Madison County Jail on Monday evening. He is charged with a count of armed robbery as a Class B felony, and Casey said additional charges are expected.

Anderson police say Simmons pointed a semiautomatic handgun at the Pizza Hut cashier and demanded money. The cashier loaded about $720 into a small bag.

But before Simmons could run from the restaurant, deliveryman Michael Shaker fired a round from a personal firearm that struck Simmons in the back of the head, according to police.

Shaker is not expected to face any charges in the incident, Casey said, because his actions were considered self-defense.
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Weeeeeeeeelllllllllllll, I guess I'd have to defer to the L.E.O.s who were there shortly after the incident and got everyone's story 1st hand. It would be nice if the article explained just a tad more about how "in the back of the head" & "his actions were considered self-defense" are compatible. I'm certainly not saying that I think anything is wrong but it just sounds like it needs further explaination.
 
It could have something to do with the owner of that particular franchise.
 
These companies do not restrict the carrying of weapons because of anti-gun ideology, it's because of legal liability. They do not want responsibility if an employee does something stupid. Would you want to be legally and financially responsible with millions of dollars at stake for the actions of thousands of people that you do not even get to supervise?

I worked as an armored car guard...even at a company where our job involves carrying guns, we had restrictions on what kind of gun we can carry, what caliber, how much ammo, only one gun, what kind of ammo, what kind of holster you may use, and where you may wear said holster.

For example all non-office personnel had to carry a double action only revolver or double action only semiautomatic pistol with barrel length 4-6" in 9mm, 38, 357, 40 S&W 45acp in a double retention holster at the hip, only one gun may be carried, and only enough jacketed hollow point ammo (except where prohibited by law) to fill the gun 3 times (ie loaded handgun and 2 extra mags). There were also regulations on where and when it may be unloaded, how company firearms are stored (for example company shotgun must be loaded with 5 rounds of 12ga 2 3/4 1oz slugs and stored with the action open facing the ceiling), how often they are maintained, etc. These regulations are thought of with lawsuits and insurance policies in mind, not anti-gun bias. They were very serious about these policies and people who played fake draw, carried too much ammo, hid an extra gun, decided to go Dragnet with a shoulder holster, etc. looked at suspension or job loss.

And I know our competitors also had very similar restrictions. I know it varies from dept. to dept. but even police departments have restrictions on firearms. Chill out. Not everything is an evil conspiracy to come take your guns.
 
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maybe the crook turned round immediatly as round was fired, he's lucky he is alive to face charges. We can't play judge from our keyboards, and I have heard way weirder scenarios...
 
If a guy was digging in his loot sack, who knows if he is putting cash in, or taking a gun out, I would have fired, maybe double tap it, It's the possibility of his life, or mine, and I consider mine more important.
 
Crook still facing and advancing on the victim then spins his head around to be sure nobody is closing on him from behind. Either that or a ricochet.
 
Just because you are not the one who the threat is facing does not mean that it is not a good shoot. The threat is inside your place of business, and is committing armed robbery. With a deadly weapon. That is a threat to your life. This is not some old western. There is not a single law that says I have to give the threat a chance, or that I have to try to apprehend him. There is no law that says I can't shoot him in the back.

Picture this: You are in a store being robbed, and are behind the robber. Do you:

a) draw and shoot him in the back. he is a threat to you and everyone else in the store
b) draw and tell him to drop his weapon. Shooting someone in the back is wrong.
c) just stand there and be a good witness. He isn't a direct threat to you. After all, you are a fast draw, if he should become a threat.
 
Bad guys should always have to worry about getting shot regardless of what nanny types or politics.
 
Since he was leaving the hospital, it must be assumed it was a glancing wound. If one turns his head slightly, a bullet could strike glancing blow behind the ear, and he's been shot in the back of the head!
IDK i wasn't there...
 
Doesn't matter which angle he was shot from, he was in the act of committing an armed robbery.

Private citizens are NOT LEO's and have no need or requirement to identify themselves and try to capture, arrest or take into custody an armed robber.

His presence and very actions with a weapon in his hand make him a threat period.
 
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I agree about the shoot. You need to be VERY careful about shooting someone when they are no longer a threat, but in this case, a reasonable person would agree that the situation was far from safe.

I am just wondering if Pizza Hut will or already has softened their policy.
 
Shot in the head with a 9mm and he lived WoW ! Glad I have a 40 and a 45.
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As a paramedic, I have seen HUNDREDS of shootings. I have seen people take multiple gunshots from .45s and walk away. I have seen .22s kill someone in one shot.

I saw a cop shoot a man 4 times (twice in the chest, twice in the head) with a .40cal, and the man not only lived, he was spitting teeth and wanted to WALK to the stretcher.

A .40/.45 is not a guarantee.
 
As a paramedic, I have seen HUNDREDS of shootings. I have seen people take multiple gunshots from .45s and walk away. I have seen .22s kill someone in one shot.

I saw a cop shoot a man 4 times (twice in the chest, twice in the head) with a .40cal, and the man not only lived, he was spitting teeth and wanted to WALK to the stretcher.

A .40/.45 is not a guarantee.
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Reminds me of the autopsy photos of the guy that took 17 rounds of .40 S&W JHPs to mostly center mass, was still alive, kicking, and fighting the officers. His hip was shattered, an ankle was shattered, one of his forearms was shattered, one was in his neck, and two? lodged themselves what looks like an inch or less from his spine. The human body is an amazing thing....

Would a link to the photos be considered inappropriate for here?
 
My wife is a manager for a national grocery chain. Although state law specifically says she can carry a weapon, either openly or concealed (the business is under her control), company policy forbids employees, even those with concealed-carry licenses, from having a firearm in the store. However, a person who has a CHL can carry their weapon in the store. If she gets a bad feeling come closing time, she calls me and I drive over to walk her to her car.
 
As far as being shot in the "Back" of anything, there was a self-defense case near where I live where the media portrayed the defender as shooting a "poor misunderstood kid" in the midst of a serious crime streak, in the back. What wasn't clear right away was that the criminal was shot once, and was in the process of flinching/spinning/dropping when the second round impacted in the back half of his body, (don't remember if it was torso or buttocks) just rear of an imaginary line drawn down the center of a side-on view.

So some things could use some more explaining before drawing conclusions.
 
Reminds me of the autopsy photos of the guy that took 17 rounds of .40 S&W JHPs to mostly center mass, was still alive, kicking, and fighting the officers. His hip was shattered, an ankle was shattered, one of his forearms was shattered, one was in his neck, and two? lodged themselves what looks like an inch or less from his spine. The human body is an amazing thing....

Would a link to the photos be considered inappropriate for here?
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Sure, but I bet it is the incident from Pennsylvania. The suspect was shot 17 times, but not all were .40 and the .40 did NOT shatter the pelvis. .223 did. As for the shots mostly being COM, certainly a lot were not as he was struck in the arm, neck, foot, pelvic area etc.

Already discussed here...http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=375650&highlight=fbi+autopsy
 
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TexasBill My wife is a manager for a national grocery chain. Although state law specifically says she can carry a weapon, either openly or concealed (the business is under her control), company policy forbids employees, even those with concealed-carry licenses, from having a firearm in the store. However, a person who has a CHL can carry their weapon in the store. If she gets a bad feeling come closing time, she calls me and I drive over to walk her to her car.
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Does this mean she made the decision to prevent CC by employees?
 
Shot in the head with a 9mm and he lived WoW ! Glad I have a 40 and a 45.
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Where did you get the idea that a head shot is a sure kill? I know a fellow who took a 12 ga shotgun blast to the face and lived for years afterwards. Lost most of his lower jar and one side of his face, but he lived.
 
CajunBass, I saw before/after pictures for a woman who took a shotgun blast to the face from her husband/boyfriend. He then went out and (successfully) committed suicide. She lived.

She's essentially had a face transplant, but she survived.

A *GOOD* headshot, IE one to the brain, will generally kill. Just because you're shot in the head doesn't mean it'll hit the brain.

A larger caliber/more powerful round can turn a glancing hit into a disabling one, but in general there isn't a great amount of difference between 9mm, 40S&W, and .45ACP.
 
Anderson police say Simmons pointed a semiautomatic handgun at the Pizza Hut cashier and demanded money.
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It would be nice if the article explained just a tad more about how "in the back of the head" & "his actions were considered self-defense" are compatible.
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The man was an armed felon in the commission of a crime. The Marquis of Queensbury rules don't apply in situations like that.
 
Bad guys should always have to worry about getting shot regardless of what nanny types or politics.
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It goes with the job.

Has anybody heard an update on Pizza Huts' response to the shooting? Will they in fact fire the guy yet?
 
Quote:
Shot in the head with a 9mm and he lived WoW ! Glad I have a 40 and a 45.

As a paramedic, I have seen HUNDREDS of shootings. I have seen people take multiple gunshots from .45s and walk away. I have seen .22s kill someone in one shot.

I saw a cop shoot a man 4 times (twice in the chest, twice in the head) with a .40cal, and the man not only lived, he was spitting teeth and wanted to WALK to the stretcher.

A .40/.45 is not a guarantee.
Click to expand...

And I seem to recall examples of .357 Magnum fired from point blank range bouncing off the skull. Depends on the angle and location, more than anything else.
 
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