Optics??

[Newt]

I think I've decided on a scope for my new rifle. Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40. I can get it at my dealer for 270.00. Anyone have any experience with this scope? Good/bad? Or do you recommend another?

Newt

 

[RifleScopes.com]

Good scope for the money but there are two others to consider because of current manufactuer promotions.

1. Bushnell Elite series come with coupon for FREE $99.95 rain parka

2. Burris Fullfield II 3-9x40 Ballistic Plex comes with FREE 20x50 Spotting Scope.

Optically these three are similar with the best being the Elite 4200 and the best bang for buck being the BuckMaster. The new fire fly reticle from Bushnell is unique and beneficial for low light shooting. The Ballistic Plex from Burris is real handy for long range hold over shots.

 

[Futo Inu]

Chris, what is the difference between the 3200 and 4200 Bushnells? Thanks for all the helpful info on numerous optics question threads.

 

[CB900F]

Chris;

I recently purchased a Weaver Grand Slam 3.5 X 10 50mm from your site.
I would have appreciated knowing of those two promotions from Matt. I'm not saying that I would have ultimately bought one of the others, but I've always thought more information is better than less. It's the silver one that went into the depths of darkest Montana.

900F

 

[RifleScopes.com]

"what is the difference between the 3200 and 4200 Bushnells?"

The 3200 scopes are multicoated and the 4200 scopes are fully multi-coated making a noticable difference in low light transmission. The 3200 scopes are recoil tested to 1,000 rounds of .375 H&H and the 4200 scopes are recoil tested to 10,000 rounds of .375 H&H. Both have a one-piece tube that is hammer-forged from an aluminum and titanium alloy for 30% more strength than standard scopes. The 3200 utilizes a half saddle design to house the windage and elevation adjustments where the 4200 uses a full saddle (much stronger). And finally the 3200 scopes go 3x zoom ration, ie: 3-9, 4-12, 5-15. The 4200 scopes have a full 4x zoom ration, ie: 2.5-10, 4-16, 8-32.

 

[Futo Inu]

Wow - a more outstanding answer to a question I've asked, I cannot remember - I will definitely buy from you in the future! Thanks.

Thread hijack, if I may:

Chris, with my recent resurgence of interest in air rifles (with the purchase of my RWS model 52), I've been looking at scopes that can handle the violent 2-way recoil found in "magnum" spring piston runs over a long period of time (rifles such as the model 48/52, and RWS model 350 I plan to get). I've come to notice several things while shopping for a strong-enough scope (again, they must not only be strong, but constructed with reticle support on both sides, to handle the 2-way recoil of these airguns):

1. There is a great confusion and lack of information, retailer to retailer about whether certain scopes are or are not designated to handle the recoil,
2. There are many scopes (such as on your site, Chris), which are lumped under the same general pigeonhole, as ".22/Rimfire/Airgun". ***? There's an incredibly vast difference between the amount and type of recoil between a rimfire and spring piston airgun. The Leupolds, Burris's, and Simmons's, for example, I'm particularly skeptical about (among others), when they advertise that a scope is for ".22s and airguns" - makes no sense whatsoever to me.
3. Conversely, there are certain scopes which SEEM like they may be perfectly able to hand spring piston airgun recoil, SUCH AS the Busnell 3200s and 4200s (after all, tested to 1,000 or 10,000 rounds of .375 -Doesn't matter what direction the recoil is going, this is quite a thorough test, seems to me a .375 is going to send shock waves in any and all directions), but which DON'T advertise as being acceptable for spring-piston guns, and which are therefore shooting themselves in the foot, because I for one won't buy one unless it's specifically advertised for same, because I don't want them claiming the warranty is voided because they weren't advertised for that, if it should break.

So, this gives rise to several questions which I'm hoping Chris can answer:

A. Well, can the 4200 handle spring piston recoil? Can the 3200? The "Trophy" series 4-12x40 can, and is thus advertised for it, as is the 3200 handgun 2-6x32, but what about the others in the 3200 and 4200 lines, such as the 3-9x40? Can you call Bushnell and ask them specifically whether they will put in writing that their warranty on 3200s and/or 4200s covers spring-piston airgun use? What about other "regular" firearm scopes from other makers not specifically advertised for this? Which brands/make/models can handle it, in your estimation?
B. OTOH, what about these that DO advertise for it, but which I'm skeptical about, particularly the Burris and Luepold ".22/airgun" scopes? I assume that they would have to cover it under their warrantys, since they advertise for it, if the scope should break, no? Or would they weasal and say "Oh, well, we meant 'pre-charged' or 'pump' guns, not spring-pistons."?

Right now, the only ones I'm considering for my airguns are the (a) RWS model 300 4x32, (b) the RWS model 450, and (c) the Bushnell Trophy 4-12x40 AO - all the others I woulnd't trust the warranty's on, even if they otherwise fit my needs better, size and weight-wise, quality-wise, and power-wise. What gives?!? Thanks.

 

[RifleScopes.com]

Futo Ino,

We sell way more scopes for rimfires than we do airguns, so…. many times you will see us advertise an "airgun" scope as a rimfire/airgun scope because an airgun scope has the ability to focus at a close range and is generally the power and design that a rimfire shooter is also looking for. You will however never see us advertise a rimfire scope as a rimfire/airgun scope. You can rest assured that if we claim it is airgun compatible then it is. A scope that can handle 10000 rounds of .375 might puke after one round in a serious airgun. It does not make since but it happens all the time and is directly related to the violent two way recoil. The best scopes for airgun are the Burris designated for that use and any Leupold. All Leupold scopes are airgun rated and by no means would Leupold ever try and weasel out of fixing anything they make for free. RWS makes good stuff as well but a Leupold EFR would be my first pick. The questions concerning Bushnell's warranty and claims would be better addressed directly to them.

Thanks,

 

[Futo Inu]

Once again, a most excellent reply - I'll definitely be looking then, to get a Leupold or Burris from you!!

In fact, for the RWS model 350, I really like the looks of the Burris Airgun 3-9x32, AO, Plex, Matte, $249.95, and for the Model 52, I like the Leupold Vari-X III 6.5-20x40, A/O, Target Knobs, Matte, but at $600 for the fine duplex and $635 for the target dot, that one will take some saving time.

Only one more question Chris - you said that "all Leupolds are airgun rated" - did you mean to say exactly that? That I could buy **ANY** Leupold, and it will stand up to airguns (and the warranty would thus be honored)? Because that is indeed good news, if that is the case.

Wait a sec - also, what is EFR?

 

[Futo Inu]

By the way

I shot off an email to Nikon inquiring whether the ProStaff 3-9x40 I recently purchased for a rifle would handle airguns. Here is their reply:

"Dear Dan:

1. The scope can handle the recoil from magnum spring piston airguns.

2. The scope has a lifetime warranty and covers the durability of the
scope.


Please reference case number K410123 if you have any further email
questions on this issue.

Thank you for contacting us.

Sincerely,
Ed
Technical Relations
Nikon, Inc."

So, GOOD: There are probably several makers whose scopes can handle airgun recoil, but which don't advertise for it, so this greatly broadens the choices.

BAD: Many (like Nikon) don't advertise for this feature, so it's gonna take a fair amount of research/emails/etc. to figure out which ones do. The key, I suppose, is in the details of the warranty for the scope. As the Nikon guy says, the scope warranty "covers durability". So if the warranty (a) covers durability, and (b) does NOT have any specific exclusion on airguns, then you're good to go, seems to me.

 

[RifleScopes.com]

Yes my friend any and all Leupold scopes are air gun compatible (hard to believe but true).

insert off Leupold's web page:

"The Leupold Answer Guide
What Scopes are Recommended for Air Gun use?
All Leupold scopes will withstand the spring recoil of air guns. Leupold's EFR (extended eye relief) scopes will focus down to 10 meters, and out to infinity. Leupold offers two models in EFR, the 6.5-20x40 EFR and the 3-9x33 EFR.

Leupold's Custom Shop also offers parallax changes to most Leupold scopes for a charge of $15.00 plus $7.00 shipping and handling. Having the parallax changed can allow the user to focus the scope down to very close distances for air gun applications."


There is however an error in their statement regarding EFR. EFR stands for Extended Focal Range not Extended Eye Relief, that would be EER as in a hand gun scope. EFR basically means that the adjustable objective will focus down really close for air gun shooting. An optic only has so much focus range and if you make it focus at extreme close range it compromises its infinity focus, so most scopes are set to focus best at mid to long range. The EFR series are set to focus primairaly at close ranges.

 

[Futo Inu]

Update on hijack subject of air gun optics

Well, I've done a LOT more research since my last post on this thread, and have discovered some things.

--ALL Leupolds are rated for airguns physically, as Chris said, but only the EFR models are suitable for focusing down to 10 yards or less, and ALL EFR-AO models are Vari-X IIIs, which makes them very expensive - and very good too of course.

--ALL Burrises are likewise strong enough for magnum air rifle recoil, but just as the Leupolds, only the ones specifically shown as air will focus down to close ranges.

--ALL Bushnells are likewise strong enough for airgun recoil, and ALL adjustable objective model Bushnells can focus down to close distances, making Bushnells the best *general* choice for airguns (any AO Bushnell).

--Apparently, ALL or *most all* Nikons are likewise strong enough. Not sure about the details, but since my bottom-of-the-line Nikon is, as verified by Nikon (the Pro-staff), it's probably the case that all Nikons are. However, I'm not aware of ANY Nikons that can focus down to 10 yards - they concentrate primarily on marketing theirs for rifles - more info is needed on Nikon, but it does not appear they are good choices, even though they are apparently strong enough. The one I have is set to be parallax-free at 100s yards, and sucks pretty bad at 10 - not suitable.

--Two of the three models of RWS scopes are rated for heavy spring piston airguns (those being the model 300 and 450, NOT the 350 - the model 350 is for low- to moderate-recoil airguns only).

For other makers, such as Simmons, BSA, whathaveyou, only those designated airgun are suitable both in strength and focus.

So, I ultimately came to the conclusion that the best scopes for ME, for the specific airgun models I have (or want and plan on getting) are as follows:

1. RWS model 52 (Target & all-purpose gun): Bushnell Trophy 4-12x40 AO, or Swift Premier 4-12x40 AO. Chris, do you sell any of the Swifts? I don't see them on your website. If not on a budget, the Bushnell Elite 4200 or 3200, 4-16x40s are also great choices for this gun. Also a good choice would be the Leupold Vari-X III 6-20x50 EFR-AO, but it's very expensive and would require high rings, which I would not like on an airgun.

2. RWS model 350 supermagnum (hunter gun): Leupold Vari-X III 3-9x33 EFR-AO - ultimate scope for a field gun - only 10.9 oz. On a budget though, I'd put a RWS model 300 or 450 on this rifle.

The Burrises just seem too expensive for what you get, compared to the Bushnell, Leupolds and Swifts. Oh yeah, the Weaver V16, 4-16x42 is also a strong enough and suitable scope for airguns, I discovered. The Weaver Grand Slam 6-20x40 is also a decent choice for airguns, *except that* it can only focus down to 15 yards (the V16 down to 10, so it's better).

Hope this helps someone. Actually, it would be nice if the original thread title could be edited to include the word "airgun" in it for future search reasons, if possible - no biggie, but sometimes people search "subject only" and I did hijack your thread (sorry!).

 

[Newt]

Don't mean to steal you guys' thread, but I've finally ordered my scope. I ordered a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 x 40 Silver. Haven't recieved it yet but will within the next week. I think I'm going to like it. Input? Thanks for all the help!

Newt