VA: Student charged with gun posession at college

[RoadkingLarry]

Oklahoma is the same if you have the keys they can get you for DUI, which requires a BAC test at time of arrest. I don't know about VA but in Oklahoma they can nail you for public intox simply on the word of the officer no BAC test, no recourse. My suspicious mind has to wonder if that might not be the case in this deal????

 

[TexasRifleman]

Oklahoma is the same if you have the keys they can get you for DUI

OK sort of off the topic but what if it's an RV parked somewhere?

 

[RoadkingLarry]

Then I think it would depend on how bad a day the LEO is having...

 

[strat81]

A few questions:
Is it SOP for police to check the trunk during a DUI stop?
How did they get consent to search his drunk?
If he was drunk, does he have legal capacity to agree to a search of his person and vehicle?
Is having a CHP probable cause for a search of person and vehicle? (IMO, it shouldn't be)

“One of the biggest things we want to stress is there was no threat toward anyone before or after (the incident),” Beavers said.

It's scary that not being a threat to anyone before or after makes you guilty of a felony.

 

[VARifleman]

I fired off an email to PVC about this. I want to know if he was carrying while drunk, or sleeping it off with the guns in the trunk.

 

[209]

In Texas you can be cited for DWI while sitting in a stationary vehicle if you are in possession of the keys to that vehicle. It happened to the wife of a friend a while back and she was passed out at the time.

Oklahoma is the same if you have the keys they can get you for DUI, which requires a BAC test at time of arrest. I don't know about VA but in Oklahoma they can nail you for public intox simply on the word of the officer no BAC test, no recourse. My suspicious mind has to wonder if that might not be the case in this deal????

That’s harsh. Here in CT, the rule we use for operation is if the driver has done anything that can cause operation. Having the keys in the ignition is PC for the arrest, but no keys in the ignition isn’t. It’s “driving under the influence”, not “sitting under the influence”. Guy walks out of a bar and climbs in his car and realizes he’s drunk and just sits in the car, he’s okay. He puts that ignition key in, he’s not.

Usually, when I'm questioned on the pitfalls of DUI, I tell folks to put their keys in the trunk. Then go to sleep in the car. When they sober up, they can pop open the trunk and grab their keys and drive away. It's the safest way to avoid a DUI, even though technically they could have the keys in their pocket or glovebox or stuffed under their seat, etc. Of course, other things than DUI can come into play in various situations.

In the Bluefield case, I don’t know why they would tow his car for a public intox charge, but maybe the university asked the car be removed from campus. And, maybe the PD does an inventory of towed vehicles prior to tows (those are legal in some states). But I too am wondering about the five firearms mentioned in the article and the felony charge.

 

[annielulu]

Any gun related violation makes law abiding ccw's look bad.

For me, I wouldn't even think of carrying any firearm if I were to drink.

 

[Elza]

RoadkingLarry: I don't know about VA but in Oklahoma they can nail you for public intox simply on the word of the officer no BAC test, no recourse.

Same in Texas.

 

[OAKVILLE SHOOTER]

Got this from Va State Police web site:

Where Unlawful to Carry

§18.2-308 (J.3.): No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

§18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.

§18.2-283: To a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place, without good and sufficient reason.

§18.2-283.1: Courthouse.

[B]§18.2-308.1: School property. Exemptions to this statute include a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. [/B]
§18.2-287.01: Carrying weapon in air carrier airport terminal.

It is also illegal in Va to carry while intoxicated or under the influence of drugs.

 

[Zoogster]

As this article shows the actual law, and the officer's belief and what they brief the press or public on to condemn you may be two totaly different things.

So this guy has a bogus felony charge that he will now have to pay legal fees to correct (if it even turns out in his favor.)

 

[TexasRifleman]

So this guy has a bogus felony charge

I doubt it. Whether the cops knew the law doesn't matter, a District Attorneys Office would have to file the charges and they generally know the law. At an arraignment hearing the exact statute broken would have to be documented and since there isn't one......

Sounds like from reading that they might get to charge him with carrying while intox and public intox, that's about it.

I'm gonna have to chock this one up to some really sloppy reporting and a runny mouth on a campus spokesman.

 

[Mr. James]

Yes, public intoxication and, possibly, carrying while intoxicated if he was, in fact, carrying. Since we don't know what firearms were found, where they were found, or how/if they were secured (five handguns loose in the passenger bucket seat is a bit different than five rifles locked in cases in the trunk), that latter charge might not even apply.

I had a friend get arrested many years ago in Bellingham, Washington for something akin to "being in physical control of a motor vehicle while intoxicated," i.e., he was passed out drunk in the driver's seat with the keys in his possession. He was outraged at being thus charged when he was, after all, "only trying to do the right thing" rather than attempting to pilot that old boat home

Virginia law does not seem to have a similar provision. If you are intoxicated and in a vehicle, it appears you can be popped either for DWI or public intoxication, as circumstances warrant.

 

[brickeyee]

Maybe the entire code section is more accurate than the VSP cite
§ 18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.
A. If any person possesses any (i) stun weapon as defined in this section; (ii) knife, except a pocket knife having a folding metal blade of less than three inches; or (iii) weapon, including a weapon of like kind, designated in subsection A of § 18.2-308, other than a firearm; upon (a) the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (b) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (c) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
B. If any person possesses any firearm designed or intended to expel a projectile by action of an explosion of a combustible material while such person is upon (i) any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds; (ii) that portion of any property open to the public and then exclusively used for school-sponsored functions or extracurricular activities while such functions or activities are taking place; or (iii) any school bus owned or operated by any such school, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony; however, if the person possesses any firearm within a public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school building and intends to use, or attempts to use, such firearm, or displays such weapon in a threatening manner, such person shall be sentenced to a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of five years to be served consecutively with any other sentence.
The exemptions set out in § 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section. The provisions of this section shall not apply to (i) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of the school's curriculum or activities; (ii) a person possessing a knife customarily used for food preparation or service and using it for such purpose; (iii) persons who possess such weapon or weapons as a part of any program sponsored or facilitated by either the school or any organization authorized by the school to conduct its programs either on or off the school premises; (iv) any law-enforcement officer; (v) any person who possesses a knife or blade which he uses customarily in his trade; (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle; or (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.
As used in this section:
"Stun weapon" means any device that emits a momentary or pulsed output, which is electrical, audible, optical or electromagnetic in nature and which is designed to temporarily incapacitate a person.
(1979, c. 467; 1988, c. 493; 1990, cc. 635, 744; 1991, c. 579; 1992, cc. 727, 735; 1995, c. 511; 1999, cc. 587, 829, 846; 2001, c. 403; 2003, cc. 619, 976; 2004, cc. 128, 461; 2005, cc. 830, 928; 2007, c. 519.)


Don't you love it when the VSP is misleading you by using partial statements of law?

The law does NOT apply to educational facilites above high school.

 

[RNB65]

My prediction is that little will come of this case.

The weapons charge will be dropped by the local CA. Having a gun on a college campus is not illegal in VA (not even at poor, old VCU -- contrary to popular belief).

The public intox charge will be dropped or plead down to a very minor misdemeanor. The guy was over 21 and if being drunk on a college campus is illegal, then just about every college student in VA should be jailed on a regular basis.

He will, of course, be expelled from Bluefield College. But, frankly, that's not exactly a big loss either. Bluefield ain't exactly on anyone's Best Colleges list.

It's all just a typical pile of crapola which will soon pass. The kid will get off with nothing more than a light slap on the wrist and he just might learn something about personal responsibility.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The story doesn't say but I find it hard to believe he was concealed carrying 5 handguns.

Likely as not his firearms were locked in the trunk and not on his person.

I get the impression it was probably more like:

1 or 2 guns
1 or 2 knives
pepper spray
something else

I too find the 5 guns line implausible.

The article does not say the guns were concealed. It does not say the guns were in the trunk. It DOES say there were 5 firearms.

As noted by Oakville Shooter, it is illegal to carry on private property if prohibited by the owner or is posted. Bluefield College is a private school. It does not allow guns on campus. The owner, Bluefied College, has made this known. As such, the guy was breaking the law (§18.2-308 (O.)

 

[lacoochee]

As noted by Oakville Shooter, it is illegal to carry on private property if prohibited by the owner or is posted. Bluefield College is a private school. It does not allow guns on campus. The owner, Bluefied College, has made this known. As such, the guy was breaking the law (§18.2-308 (O.)

Not true, no guns signs have no legal bearing in Virginia. The no carry on school property law he is citing is applicable only to Elementary and Secondary Schools not Universities or Colleges.

As much as some of y'all are trying to make a big deal out of this, it just isn't. The only things we know for sure from this article is that the guy was arrested. The article does not say if the guns were even loaded, nor does it mention the results of a sobriety test if one was given, it does not say whether or not he was in possession of the car keys, in fact it appears to be mostly hear say and conjecture on the part of the article writer.

I agree with the prediction that his expelled and faces no legal consequences. (Ironically, yes this is also conjecture.)

 

[RNB65]

As noted by Oakville Shooter, it is illegal to carry on private property if prohibited by the owner or is posted. Bluefield College is a private school. It does not allow guns on campus. The owner, Bluefied College, has made this known. As such, the guy was breaking the law (§18.2-308 (O.)

I disagree. §18.2-308 (O) only applies to possession of a concealed handgun by a CHP holder and is not at all applicable in this case since no CC or CHP has been mentioned:

"O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property."

At worst, the kid may get a misdemeanor trespassing charge for having guns on campus, but I seriously doubt there will be any firearms related charges.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Not true, no guns signs have no legal bearing in Virginia. The no carry on school property law he is citing is applicable only to Elementary and Secondary Schools not Universities or Colleges.

The law cited pertains to private property, not just schools. The school is private property. There is no mention of signs and no signs need be mentioned as the no guns policy is stated in the student handbook.

I disagree. §18.2-308 (O) only applies to possession of a concealed handgun by a CHP holder and is not at all applicable in this case since no CC or CHP has been mentioned:

Read again what you quoted. It says concealed handgun or any other weapons. It also says that a CHP does not give the bearer to carry in such areas.

Virginia law already gives the right to preclude weapons from private property, so it is a violation of the law. It may not be a firearms law per se, but enough to yank the permit.

 

[lacoochee]

Double Naught it's not my interpretation of the law, Virginia's courts also interprets the law this way. Private property owners can ask you to leave if they decide they don't like you carrying a gun (assuming they even know), if you refuse the you could be charged with trespass assuming you are stupid enough to wait for the cops to show up. The act of carrying the firearm would not be the issue, you can be asked to leave for any reason.

Signs or rules about carrying a firearms have no meaning in Virginia or in Florida for that matter. In some states this not true to varying degrees, but for us it's not a concern.

It may not be a firearms law per se, but enough to yank the permit.

Nope, otherwise anytime you missed a tiny sign at the front door of some hole in the wall business you would be in danger of losing your permit.

So does anyone know what happened? Was he released?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

He didn't miss a tiny sign, did he? He was informed by the property owner that guns were not allowed. Am I wrong, or is a trespass with a firearm violation enough to yank the license there?

 

[VARifleman]

It's a standard trespass charge, DNS. The only illegal carry place in VA that holds a felony charge is k-12 schools, so that charge is bogus to begin with. Also, 308 only applies to CCW, so if he wasn't carrying concealed according to statute and common law, he can't be breaking 308. He will lose the license for 3 years if he gets convicted of the public intox charge (DUI counts the same in this case).