Ordered an Antique Winchester 1892 in .38-40 WCF

[Dave Markowitz]

I've been getting the wants for another levergun and ran across a circa-1895 Winchester 1892 in .38 WCF (.38-40) at Simpson's Ltd. I called them up today, asked a few questions about it, and decided to order it. It should ship on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Pics borrowed from the seller's website:





After I got off the phone with Simpson's I went over to MidwayUSA and ordered a couple boxes of Ultramax .38-40 cowboy loads. However, I plan mainly to shoot black powder handloads. I already do so for .44 WCF in my Cimrron 1873, so I'm familiar with what's entailed. I'm going to look for an original Winchester 1882 loading tool and mold, or an Ideal tong tool with an integrated mold.

This should be a lot of fun.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Sweet.
You'll have to give us a range report.

 

[SwampWolf]

Very cool set-up. Love what you have in mind for it. Keep us informed as you go along.

 

[eastbank]

I have loaded with this 38-40 tool, it works, but you have to take care with it. eastbank.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I was just thinking as I was reading your post that this would be a great black powder cartridge rifle.

 

[22250Rem]

Sweet.
You'll have to give us a range report.

..............My thoughts exactly; and thanks for posting it.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I have loaded with this 38-40 tool, it works, but you have to take care with it. eastbank.

I own one for .44 WCF, along with a Winchester 1882 tool. I came to like the Winchester tool for priming cases that I load on my Lee turret press. I get a good feel for how the primer is being seated with the old Winchester tool.

The 1892 should be here tomorrow. <happy dance>

 

[Speedo66]

I've got an original '73 in .38-40 that I occasionally use an old 1 piece Ideal combo tool to load with. It works well, but one box at a time is all I wish to use it for. I think if you did it on a regular basis you'd wind up with a Popeye arm.

Good luck with your new rifle!

 

[Dave Markowitz]

The rifle arrived yesterday and I was able to take some pictures today.

Overall, it's clean and the surface condition was as described -- mostly turned to brown with scattered pitting, but nothing major. Some of the screws have boogered slots. The bore is mostly clean and the rifling looks good, except towards the muzzle which shows wear from the use of a cleaning rod. The sights are in excellent shape, something you often find damaged on old guns. The action is solid and works very smoothly. I'm not going to attempt any disassembly until the Kroil I put on all the screws has several days to soak in.








A .38 WCF cartridge from Ultramax, below left, with one of my .44 WCF handloads:

 

[eastbank]

that's the way I like them. let us know how it shoots. eastbank.

 

[Jim Watson]

Interesting, a round barrel. Octagon was more popular even though it cost more.
It is in amazing shape, the receiver blue not "flaked". There are so many lever actions with the finish gone off the receiver but excellent on barrel and magazine.

 

[Speedo66]

Nice looking gun. Although the barrel on my '73 looks horrible, it actually shoots decently. Hopefully, yours will, too.

Still can't understand why they named the cartridges as they did, the .44-40 actually being .42, and the .38-40 actually being a .40. Anyone know why?

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

Good looking gun. Please rethink the modern "cowboy" loads though. They still use smokeless powder, it's just a little less powerful than a normal load for SASS shooters, but still has the pressure curve and around 800 FPS. I'd stick with BP loads just in case. Let us know how it shoots.

 

[Scooter22]

Very nice!

 

[Jim Watson]

Still can't understand why they named the cartridges as they did, the .44-40 actually being .42, and the .38-40 actually being a .40. Anyone know why?

.44 WCF was one of the early inside lubricated cartridges with the bullet smaller than the case neck, unlike the outside lubed, case diameter bullet of the .44 Henry. I figure they kept the .44 designation for familiarity, everybody knew about a .44 Winchester, even if they started out with an 1866.

The only thing I can think of about the .38 WCF is they called it a .38 so it would be "more different" from .44 than .40.

 

[eastbank]

the 92 in good shape will take any reasonable load in the loading manuals, black or smokeless. I used black powder for years, but have gone to reasonable smokeless loads due to having to clean the gun and cases soon after firing due to corrosion. its true that loaded right you will not have much blow back with black powder, but your will have some and your rifle will need to be taken down and cleaned sooner or later. that's why its harder to find older firearms from the black powder and corrosive primer era,s in good condition and those that are in good condition bring more money when sold. I like unique powder for my rifles in pistol calibers with cast lead bullets. eastbank.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Good looking gun. Please rethink the modern "cowboy" loads though. They still use smokeless powder, it's just a little less powerful than a normal load for SASS shooters, but still has the pressure curve and around 800 FPS. I'd stick with BP loads just in case. Let us know how it shoots.

I appreciate your concern, but huh?

This is the first time I've ever seen it suggested that a solid Winchester 1892 of any vintage is unsafe with reduced power smokeless loads. Winchester introduced smokeless .38 WCF loads in the mid-1890s. (The HV loads came a little later.)

As long as chamber pressure is at or below the acceptable maximum for .38-40 of 14,000 CUP, it's not going to hurt the gun. The Ultramax loads are rated for 700 FPS from a revolver, which is about 200 FPS less than full power black powder loads.

Regardless, the gun actually bears German nitro proof marks (3rd one down in the attachment) on the barrel and receiver. I haven't been able to get a good picture.



How and why the piece ever made it over to Germany and back will no doubt remain a mystery.

 

[eastbank]

yes, I thought I saw a proof mark on top of the bolt(crown), but I was not sure. eastbank.

 

[Speedo66]

I use 5.5g of Trail-Boss under a 180g RNFP in my '73, very light, but accurate, load in my gun.

 

[Bushpilot]

Very nice.....

 

[tark]

If the Germans ever proved it you can bet it was fed one monster of a load. Any 92 in good condition can take the stiffest loads listed in the manual.

 

[morcey2]

That is one nice looking gun. I need more lever actions.

 

[Saddlebag Preacher]

I had a brain fart and misread your post. Was thinking 44-40.

 

[bannockburn]

Dave

One very nice, vintage Winchester! Looking forward to reading about your first range visit!

 

[BrocLuno]

'92 is one of my favorite old long guns