Original .40-65 Loads

[orpington]

As designed for the Winchester Model 1886 rifle:

From what I can gather, the original black powder load was a 260 grain bullet, presumably in front of 65 grains FFg powder. If loading today, I would just fill the case 1/16” to 1/8” higher than the base of the bullet as seared, possibly this being with Cream of Wheat filler and a cookie.

What bullet mold would create this original bullet?

And, what would have been the earliest smokeless load created and when might have this been? What smokeless powder and weight in grains? Also, what bullet in grains and appropriate bullet mold if one wishes to cast?

 

[orpington]

Any ideas?

 

[35 Whelen]

Were I you, I'd subscribe to www.loaddata.com There are over 80 loads for the 40-65 there-

35W

 

[Jim Watson]

Not much help, early smokeless would have been loaded with Sharpshooter or Lightning powder.

 

[Zygodactyl]

Cart of the World lists the Lyman 403169 bullet mold. .406 to .408 diameter, 240 gr flat nose. It's still available.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

Smokeless data is not hard to find.
Shooters world has data for a 250gr with Buffalo Rifle powder.
Hodgson has data for 4227 and 4198 powder (as expected) with a 400gr bullet.
Also other powders for the heavy bullet on Hodgdon.

 

[orpington]

Cart of the World lists the Lyman 403169 bullet mold. .406 to .408 diameter, 240 gr flat nose. It's still available.

That’s what I was looking for. I should have thought to look in Cartridges of the World, especially since I have that book.

 

[orpington]

Smokeless data is not hard to find.
Shooters world has data for a 250gr with Buffalo Rifle powder.
Hodgson has data for 4227 and 4198 powder (as expected) with a 400gr bullet.
Also other powders for the heavy bullet on Hodgdon.

The Lyman Reloading Manual 4rh Edition, as well as other editions, certainly, has reloading data for .40-65 WCF. Except, curiously, it states that the reloading data is for modern firearms only. My rifle is a Winchester Model 1886 rifle. This seems odd as what firearms are modern and chambered in .40-65? The Winchester 1886 was really the only rifle chambered in .40-65 commonly. The Winchester 1885 Single Shot rifle uncommonly, and there are at least a few Marlin Model 1895 rifles out there chambered in .40-65. However, the Winchester Model 1886 was discontinued in 1936 and only a very few were chambered in .40-65 after 1910 or even 1900.

 

[orpington]

Cart of the World lists the Lyman 403169 bullet mold. .406 to .408 diameter, 240 gr flat nose. It's still available.

Really dumb question. How does a 403169 bullet mold produce .406 to .408 diameter bullets? Isn’t the first three digits of a bullet mold the diameter of the bullet mold (and the last three digits the sequential number of types of molds manufactured by Lyman, this being the 169th type designed by Lyman)?

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

This seems odd as what firearms are modern and chambered in .40-65? The Winchester 1886 was really the only rifle chambered in .40-65 commonly.

Some of the Italian makers made some re-pops back in the... Uh... 1990s(?) .
Made with modern metals. I've seen some at the BPCR matches. Most are shooting heavier bullets than the 250, but I don't think I would get crazy in an original.

If it was mine, and it's not, I would shoot only black powder or the modern replacements. I would be afraid of smokeless powder pressures.

 

[Jim Watson]

Some of the Italian makers made some re-pops back in the... Uh... 1990s(?) .
Made with modern metals. I've seen some at the BPCR matches. Most are shooting heavier bullets than the 250, but I don't think I would get crazy in an original.

I have the Miroku Browning 1885 BPCR in .40-65. It and the Italian and American single shots are not really intended as a reproduction of the period rifles in the caliber, they have a faster rifling twist for heavier bullets - I use the 404 grain mini-Snover - to give .40-70 Sharps ballistics with easily reformed .45-70 brass.

I think your 1886 would handle smokeless, they have for a long time. Including yours, from looking at past posts.

 

[orpington]

Yes I have no doubt it would handle smokeless, just not to modern pressures.