Orwell's 1984 comes closer!

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EasternShore

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Just saw this story on CBS news. OMG this scares the :cuss: out of me. How long til .gov starts using this for any and every thing? :what:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/03/national/main677745.shtml

(AP) Sam Byers heard a commotion outside his house, but by the time he got to the window his Ford Explorer was gone.

City marshals, armed with a new tool that photographs auto license plates and instantly matches them against a tax scofflaw database, had towed Byers' car right out of his driveway.

"That's like kidnapping your car," Byers, a 58-year-old truck driver said as he stood, leaning on the crutches he got after a foot operation. Byers was in a long line of people outside the New Haven tax collector's office who were waiting to make delinquent payments so they could get their vehicles back.

Cash-strapped New Haven is a pioneer in using the so-called BootFinder system. The objective: snare people who haven't paid car taxes. (Connecticut is among a handful of states where local governments levy annual fees, typically a few hundred dollars per vehicle, based on the value of residents' automobiles.)

New Haven officials are overjoyed at the results. They've towed about 1,800 cars and recovered more than $1 million in delinquent taxes since the program began in September, including from people whose cars they removed from a Wal-Mart parking lot.

But privacy advocates are concerned.

To them, BootFinder, originally developed to help police departments identify stolen cars, represents yet another ominous step in government surveillance of the citizenry.

The BootFinder system was first introduced for catching tax laggards by Arlington County, Va. So far, New Haven is the only other municipality using it, though Connecticut's largest city, Bridgeport, is among those considering a purchase.

The system is comprised of an infrared camera that rapidly scans license plates and, connected to a laptop computer in the New Haven system, scours a list of car tax delinquents. Previously, New Haven officials had to rely on mailed notices and phone calls to try to collect overdue car taxes.

The car tax collection rate, at 80 percent before BootFinder, has now risen to 95 percent, said C.J. Cuticello, New Haven's tax collector.

"I think the results are fantastic," he said. "We're going to continue it until we exhaust every vehicle in New Haven."

Arlington County has had similar success, reaping about $100,000 in unpaid car taxes and parking tickets since employing BootFinder despite not towing tax delinquents' cars. Its treasurer, Frank O'Leary, says the county is expanding the program this month to go after delinquent business and meals taxes owed by restaurant delivery companies.

"We're expanding to include all the items we can think of," he said.

That is precisely what alarms privacy advocates such as Cedric Laurant, policy counsel for the Washington, D.C.-based Electronic Privacy Information Center.

"It's a very slippery slope into which the authorities may be tempted to go," Laurant said. "You could use that technology to enforce any type of law that requires people to file their taxes."

Privacy advocates fear BootFinder could lend itself to "function creep", in which a technology intended for one purpose evolves into other uses.

Indeed, the president of the company that developed BootFinder, Andy Bucholz of Alexandria, Va.-based G2 Tactics, says he is in talks that he hopes will one day lead to a BootFinder-like system getting access to the National Crime Information Center database.

Bucholz said the talks are addressing privacy and security.

Such issues were paramount to a number of states that pulled out of a federally funded database program launched in 2002 called the Multistate Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange — "Matrix" for short — that was compiling billions of pieces of information on potential criminal suspects.

Laurant complained, additionally, that New Haven's towing regimen is disproportionate punishment for relatively small tax bills.

Kathy Martone was doing her dishes one night last week when the city came to get her Plymouth Neon, for which she owed $85 in taxes.

"I didn't know till I went to walk my dog," Martone said.

Motorists who have had their vehicles seized say they are given little warning and must miss work to get their car back.

New Haven officials say, however, that delinquent taxpayers are given five notices and warnings before their vehicles are seized.

In Bridgeport, Mayor John Fabrizi got a demonstration of BootFinder last week and said that within five minutes he had identified three cars whose owners owed a total of $900 in taxes.

"I was very impressed," Fabrizi said. "I feel we're going to go with the program."

The city's tax collector, Bob Tetreault, says it is currently owed more than $20 million in car taxes and its collection rate is below 70 percent, "which is just embarrassing."

The BootFinder remains a work in progress.

O'Leary of Arlington County said it sometimes fails to work when lighting conditions are variable due to cloudy weather. But he predicts big things for the technology.

"I compare it to buying a plane from the Wright brothers 100 years ago," O'Leary said. "It's a very clever device. This thing will fly. Give it a little time."
 
Taxing people on what they own is ridiculous.

Essentially if you have to pay a yearly tax on your personal property then you are leasing it from the government.
 
So what will they do when someone loses his job because his car was towed?

Man I'm starting to be glad I don't own a car.

What is next a yearly tax on our firearms?

-Bill
 
Is it a good thing or a bad thing that they don't bother to pretend it's in the public's interest anymore? I guess it's refreshingly honest, that they are overjoyed about the income and nothing else. But maybe we should be worried that they have no fear of speaking so candidly of such motives?
 
Just what has happened to due process in all of this? Isn't some sort of judgement usually required before proceeding to asset seizure? Good lord, this is pure extortion! Jacking someones car for an $80 tax bill seems a little excessive, no? Nothing good will come from this. :cuss:
 
Next you will want want some sort of guarantee...

Guess those amendments in that old bill of rights just don't amount to much anymore.

:(
 
Am I the only one that doesn't see a problem with this? It sounds like a better way to enforce laws that are already on the books, and I don't see how it raises any privacy issues.
 
I don't see how it raises any privacy issues
I don't either, but that's not the real problem. They aren't siezing cash from your drug running operation, they're stealing a car, and ransoming it. This isn't tax collection, it's grand theft auto and extortion. Taking the car with a court order in hand might be different.
 
Essentially if you have to pay a yearly tax on your personal property then you are leasing it from the government.

Bingo, we have a winner. You are leasing everything, ownership is simply an illusion.
 
Quote:
I don't see how it raises any privacy issues
I don't either, but that's not the real problem. They aren't siezing cash from your drug running operation, they're stealing a car, and ransoming it.

This isn't tax collection, it's grand theft auto and extortion. Taking the car with a court order in hand might be different.

I agree. There is no due process. If someone loses his job because the city towed his car can he sue them?

-Bill
 
Seriously, these people can't think they're doing anything innovative. Chicago has been doing the same thing with parking tickets for years. Owe $100 in tickets? Chicago will tow your car and auction it. Guess who buys the cars, often for ridiculously low amounts below even what the city is owed by the owner? That's right, the same salvage company that towed it.

But nothing compares to Chicago's longtime practice of sending out notices of parking tickets and threatening demands for payment to downstate residents who weren't even in Chicago on the day the supposed ticket was allegedly issued. The Nigerian scammers have got nothing on these people.

Ask anybody in downstate Illinois. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't know somebody who had to engage in a long battle to convince some bureaucrat in Chicago that they couldn't have gotten a ticket in Chicago on such and such date because they were getting married in Peoria or fulfilling guard duty in Springfield.

People who can't prove they weren't in Chicago on that day (could you go back and prove that you weren't in a given city on a random date a year and a half ago?) often end up paying. The practice seems to have tapered off in recent years, at least.
 
People who can't prove they weren't in Chicago on that day (could you go back and prove that you weren't in a given city on a random date a year and a half ago?) often end up paying. The practice seems to have tapered off in recent years, at least.

I am in the burbs just outside the city and they got me for a 100 bucks.

What am I supposed to do? Take a day off work to fight it? Hire a lawyer?

:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:
 
I have always had a real hard time justifying paying tax on a car twice. For example, I used to live in Dallas proper. If you bought a car, you paid 8.5% sales tax on that car. A year later, you'd get a property tax bill from the city for a dollar amount based on how much you car is worth. I never paid one of them the whole time I lived there. Why should I have to keep paying a tax on my car? Not to mention we also had the 'inspection' extortion racket going on in Texas too. Another thing that gets me is when a person buys a used car from someone, why does the buyer have to pay tax on it again? It was already taxed when it was originally purchased, why tax it again? I see another Boston Tea Party a'comin'.

Greg
 
Well, the way it works here in SC is that you're technically buying a tag for your car, not paying a tax. The tag fee is often called a tax since it's based on the value of the car and probably a few other things, but you don't technically have to pay it as long as you don't want a tag for your car. Of course, this means that you can't legally drive it on public roads. But hey, it's still your car.

The thing that annoys me the most about the tag fee is that most of the money goes to pay for public schools. If they were using that money to build and maintain roads, it wouldn't bother me quite as much.

Rick
 
Actually, there's an opportunity here.

Suppose you have an old "junker" that you'd have to pay to get rid of. And suppose someone has some junk (toxic waste, perhaps?) that THEY would have to pay to get rid of.

Put the toxic waste containers in the junker car, don't pay taxes on the junker, let the city tow it.

Presto, problem solved! :evil: ;)
 
I have to pay $72 a year for a registration sticker. This money is supposedly for road projects.

If you are caught without a sticker the ticket is $150. If that is not paid
you are arrested and charged a $50 court fee and 30% is added to your fine.

A friend of mine doesn't ever buy stickers and gets fined hundreds of dollars
each year and has arrest warrants out the wazoo in each municipality.
 
"We're expanding to include all the items we can think of," he said.

Ok so here is the function creep situation, You buy a firearm in a state like MD where there are laws prohibiting any kind of carry execpt to and from hunting, Gunsmith, or shooting activity...

Or better yet you live in a shall issue state but do not have a permit...or maybe you do...

Anyway local .gov issues this system to LEOs with the verbal edict to check tags vs firearms ownereship...

If FA owner doesn't have permit or which ever situation above...find a reason to pull them over, or worse yet court determines this system provides enough probable cause, pull the FA owner and see if they are carrying illeagly...


I know it seems far fetched but life in Maryland is like living 6 degrees from this everyday...

And no I am not attacking LEOs, I am talking about the idgits that pass the ordanances and laws they are sworn to uphold until a court rules on it...
 
There are two things I find troubling about this practice.

1. Your car is worth many times what you owe.

2. Your car is parked on your private property.

I would get a lawyer and try and get them on trespassing, at the least, and hopefully GTA as well.

If you ignore notices and court summons they should find a judge to issue a bench warrant and come get you. These tactics fly in the face of the way our system is supposed to work.
 
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