OSS Style Wrist Daggers vs The Bear Hug

[Anthony]

Hello Everyone,

My wife's uncles on her Father's side are a bunch of drunks and love to hug and hang on other men when they are plastered. Mind you we're not talking about having one too many beers here. We're talking over the legal limit many times over!

Being the neanderthal, knuckle dragging Italian guy I am, I don't like being touched very much by other men...especially hugs. That said, I am mostly a mild mannered guy who shows respect to others and does not look for fights as I have a carry permit.

The last wedding we attended I had a very uncomfortable situation that almost escalated into something more.

One of the worst drunks of the bunch ran up behind me and caught me in a perfectly executed bear hug. While I live in condition yellow, it is impossible to stay keenly aware of everyone around you at a well attended wedding reception. I politely asked him to let me go, but my anger was about to boil over into something much worse. He refused in silence and just stood there holding my arms against my body. Flashing through my mind was the fact that he knows I carry a gun and that he can undoubtably feel my Kahr K-40 in my hip holster. Fearing he or one of his drunk brothers might be trying to take the gun, I gave him an elbow with my right arm as best I could and drove one of my heels into the instep of his left foot. He grunted and released me suddenly moving off before I could turn and discreetly take control of the situation.

Looking around the room I realized that no one had realized what had happened. All of the attention was toward the front of the reception hall and not where we were standing. So off I strolled not to be bothered again that night. He apologized (as usual) the next morning and I told him just to stay the hell away from me.

This sitaution made me understand how inaccessible anything carried on the belt down can be against a bear hug. Had this person been a bonafide BG rather than a drunk uncle, how would you suggest getting him off of you?

One of my thoughts was the use of the old OSS style wrist daggers still made by some custom bladesmiths. One of those in the forearm will make anyone let go.

Thoughts?

Opinions?

 

[hso]

Had this person been a bonafide BG rather than a drunk uncle, how would you suggest getting him off of you?

You did ok, but now that you know that the gun is not a magic wand solving all potentially dangerous situations I hope you don't intend to learn hand to hand off the internet. Look for a good MA school and ask them point blank if they are a tourniment school or a true fighting school.

Classic counters for being grabbed in a bear hug from behind is to simply raise both arms over your head in a violent jerking movement while you slam the back of your head into your assailant's face. Adding a instep stomp in with things works well also. As soon as your arms come up high enough to turn you should turn inside his grasp so that you are facing him as your arms continue upward. When you clear his grasp drive both elbows down onto his collar bones or execute a double ear clap. Follow with a hard shove and retreat. Alternately, you can reach down violently and reach back with your left hand and grab a fist full of trouser leg. When he jerks you back upright reach up and back with your right hand and grab a fist full of shirt/jacket sleve as high as possible. By jerking you back upright he's also dragged that leg you've got hold of off the ground just slightly. Now pitch forward by dropping both your legs out from under you in what will become a left forward shoulder roll. He can't support both his weight and yours on the one leg while being pulled forward. It usually results in a hard fall with him ending up on his back under you. You should immediately move to your feet by relasing him upon impact and continuing the forward roll or just by scrambling to your feet.

In either case you should be in a position to access a weapon while you increase the distance between your assailant and you.

 

[Anthony]

Good Advice!

Hi HSO,

Actually I have been training in Modern Arnis and Kali for a couple of years, but bear hugs have only briefly been covered thus far. Lots of time dedicated to stick work and hand oriented tactics. There is just so much to cover in the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA).

As a result of this incident, I scheduled some private sessions with my FMA instructor to address this specific type of attack as it is so common.

Great suggestions on counters.

 

[brownie0486]

BG are not prone to bear hugging their intended victims. You might get into that scenario if there are several of them and one grabs you thusly while the others work you over however.

Lets look at a couple of possible solutions to the bear huggers where your arms are pinned to your torso.

Lower you center of gravity by taking weight off your own legs [ not completely but enough where the person has to support you some and his own weight ]. As he comes forward at the waist in doing so, move one foot behind his and stand back up. Keep your other leg in a position to stay as balanced as possible and use that sides shoulder to push into him and turn into him. This can result in his losing his balance trying to hold onto you. He either lets go or you both go to ground with you on top normally.

The other one I like is the same but when you stand back on both feet fully after getting a foot behind his, use your forearm and hand to help push him backwards as you turn on him.

In conjunction with the head butt, leg stomp and raising the arms as HSO mentioned etc, it has been pretty successful in training on some big strong guys.

If the grab is such that you have use of the elbows/forearms, reach up and use some pressure points on the backs of his hands, or peel fingers back trying to break them.

Training is never replaced with internet narrative or books like HSO mentions as well.

Brownie

 

[Cosmoline]

The proper response is to turn around and give him a "kiss of death" on the lips. I guarantee you will NEVER BE TOUCHED AGAIN by any of those drunks

 

[crofrog]

depending on the size difference and how he has you, it could be possible to flip him off you as well.

 

[idahoemt]

Hrm. It all sounds like good advice if your feet happen to be touching the ground. At 5'8" and 140#s on a good day I have often found myself hoisted awaaaaay up in the air. My only recourse is to flop, wriggle, cuss and kick the crud out of anything my heels can hit.

 

[hso]

Break the small and adjacent fingers.

Phoenix eye grind the back of the hand.

 

[bogie]

I think we're sorta escalating into bad craziness here.

Whoopee. They like you, or they wouldn't be doing this. Or they know it bothers you, so they're doing it. Big deal.

 

[hso]

This sitaution made me understand how inaccessible anything carried on the belt down can be against a bear hug. Had this person been a bonafide BG rather than a drunk uncle, how would you suggest getting him off of you?

They like you, or they wouldn't be doing this.

The theoretical Bad Guy that uses a bear hug as the first act in an assault "likes him (sic)"? You thinking he's talking about doing this to the annoying relatives?

 

[Anthony]

Not looking to practice on the relatives.

Thank you, HSO.

For the record, I do not intend to do this to relatives.

I was brought up with wine and drink on a regular basis. Yet, I have never been drunk and have no tolerance for a lack of self control. Match that up with a bunch of guys who live to drink excessively and someone is bound not to like someone else, but we have tolerated each other for years and will continue to do so.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

If they grab you above the elbows, reach up and grind your middle knuckle into the back of their hand between the tendons (that's the phoenix eye grind Hso mentioned). Try it on yourself, you'll be amazed at how painful it can be.

If they grab you below the elbows, reach down and grab a handful of their pants, around the zipper area. And whatever parts of their anatomy may be residing there.

Both techniques can be used on drunken relatives, as long as you're careful not to be too exuberant in the application.

 

[Diamondback6]

My heel. His groin. 'Nuff said.

 

[Gordon]

"The proper response is to turn around and give him a "kiss of death" on the lips. I guarantee you will NEVER BE TOUCHED AGAIN by any of those drunks "

Holy smokes remind me not to grab Cosmoline! especially if he is Phrench!

 

[Anthony]

What on Earth is a Phoenix Eye Grind?

Can anyone explain to me what a Phoenix Eye Grind is?

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Make a fist. Now push out the middle finger's knuckle. That is known as the "Phoenix Fist"

Now, take the knuckle and grind it into the back of someone's hand, in between the tendons, especially up near the knuckles.

Watch their face as the hilarity ensues.

http://www.mg-3d.com/lesson4.html

 

[JGReed]

Actually the Phoenix Eye grind would be great for the wedding situation where your relative isn't doing much more than holding on to you. It's painful enough for him to lose interest in the game and won't make a big scene in front of the relatives.

On the street it's a low percentage move. If your attacker grabs you in a bear hug he's most likely either holding you for an accomplice or he's trying to slam you to the ground or drag you away. The immediate reaction to the pain in his hand is probably going to be to shake you violently or try to spin and slam you to the pavement.

A decent defense is to drop your weight straight down into a squat and bounce repeatedly. Don't come back up to a full standing position, you're only coming up enough to be able to drop your weight again hard when you come back down. You want your body to become a violently bouncing dead weight...it kinda looks like you're going into convulsions. As you're thrashing around you should be slamming your head back and throwing strikes backward to the groin and stomps to the feet. You want him to abandon the hold because he isn't able to control you or create enough space that you can break the grip or turn into him. The key is to get his weight forward and to keep him off balance. If he has time to lift your body weight off the ground and get set, then you have a different problem.

No "move" works every time against every opponent. Fortunately training is fun.

 

[Biker]

Yup, reverse headbutts can be effective. I also wear a spur on my left boot when riding. With that spur, I could quickly geld a man who has me in a bear hug. Then when he's on the ground making dolphin sounds, the spur comes off my boot and goes into my fist if I choose to finish the job.

Biker

 

[bogie]

Oh - a bad guy, and not just Bubba feelin' like they wanna make you part of the family...

Step/wiggle slightly to the side (assuming your arm(s) are pinned), reach back, and grab a handful. Twist. Hard.

 

[hso]

Nice website carpettbaggerr. Thanks for the picture.

Yes, Phoenix is a pain compliance technique when used to grind the back of the hand. A real BG needs to be broken, but Phoenix is a good technique to have if the encounter is not leading to a life threatening attack. Of course, how do you know?

The other option is to carry a knife inside the waistband in an "appendix carry". This allows either hand to reach the knife and you can then apply it to the back of the BG's hand or the inner thigh of the BG. Couple this with the drop shrug and you could sever the femoral artery and end their involvement in the attack quickly so that you could look for their partners.

 

[Biker]

I knew nothing of the Phoenix Grind. Great tip. Thanks.

Biker

 

[wheelgunslinger]

"Then when he's on the ground making dolphin sounds..."
That's just funny right there...

Phoenix grind is a great move.
Breaking the small and next fingers is another.
the sudden and intense application of pain is a great way to break the hold of your average guy.
If pain compliance doesn't work:
When you feel the bear hug coming around you, take a deep breath and draw your arms up around you to take up as much space as you can in the confines of the hug. Then, exhale quickly while loosening your arms and slip out the bottom of the hug while stomping the instep. Anyone executing bear hugs as an opening move is going to be a big guy/gal who believes might is right and generally won't know anything about finesse. Should not be hard to outmaneuver him/her.
I have one friend who is 6'4" and 300 lbs of heavily pain medicated combat vet. And, he's not a pile of lard. Pain compliance just doesn't work on him because he's doped to the gills, but the laws of physics do.
when you effect an escape on a guy who doesn't respond to pain, be ready to lock/break his joints, pin, or throw him because he'll be pissed and have a bruised ego.