Dealing with Dangerous Drunks

[loneviking]

Nobody has mentioned one of the common places that I seem to wind up confronting drunks and that is car wrecks. I've been in on three of 'em in the last nine months and it's not fun. No, they didn't hit my car, but I have the medical training to keep them alive until the cops and paramedics get there. Persuasion often does work, but I'll never forget the little drunk Mexican that I waltzed around and around with, never quite coming to blows but close. As soon as the cops got there, he decided he wanted to fight the lady cop that was going to put him in cuffs. She swept his legs out from under him with a nightstick, jammed the stick under and through his arm and proceeded to cuff him really fast. Yeah, I like the idea of handcuffing drunks as it's hard to fight with your hands behind your back. The problem is that only the cops get to have this kind of fun!

 

[mgkdrgn]

Nobody has mentioned one of the common places that I seem to wind up confronting drunks and that is car wrecks. I've been in on three of 'em in the last nine months and it's not fun. No, they didn't hit my car, but I have the medical training to keep them alive until the cops and paramedics get there. Persuasion often does work, but I'll never forget the little drunk Mexican that I waltzed around and around with, never quite coming to blows but close. As soon as the cops got there, he decided he wanted to fight the lady cop that was going to put him in cuffs. She swept his legs out from under him with a nightstick, jammed the stick under and through his arm and proceeded to cuff him really fast. Yeah, I like the idea of handcuffing drunks as it's hard to fight with your hands behind your back. The problem is that only the cops get to have this kind of fun!

If you are going to keep dealing with drunks at car wrecks, might I suggest you consider adding some big wire zip ties to your medical bag.

Might just save YOUR life someday.

 

[Hungry Seagull]

Had a drunk mash his ford taurus under the decapitation bar of my number two's trailer. When I arrived onto the scene, the car was a shapeless and unrecognizable pile in the freeway. The trailer sustained a flat tire and some decap bar damage (Icc rear bumber known to cut heads off when people rear ends 18 wheelers)

I was swallowing bile and fully prepared to deal with a decap body spurting blood and gore in that wreckage.

But no. The drunk was staggering about the shoulder happy, soused, boozed up and shaking hands with everyone (Or trying to) and saying sorry for the boo boo. We all stood like... 10 feet away waiting for the LEO's to toss the man into the back seat of a cruiser after the paras stick a few bandgages on him.

To this day I dont understand how such a stinking drunkard be so damn dumb lucky to escape with a few bumps for that and a headache. While sober folks get butchered.

 

[loneviking]

Yeah, Zip ties are a good idea. I had to fill out a citizens arrest on that little drunk Mexican.

It is amazing how much damage a drunk driver can endure. I saw one drunk up in the mountains barrel through an intersection and go head on into a pine tree. The pine tree was about six inches around and this guy knocked the top out of it. I went through the intersection, got out and called 911. The Jeeps engine was still roaring away and the guy was slumped over the wheel but wasn't leaking too much fluid. I stayed put by the car with 911 as I was afraid of losing the call. All of a sudden, the Jeep shifted into reverse and went flying back across the intersection and smashed backwards into another pine tree and then bounced into the street. That finally killed the engine and the guy was drug out of the jeep by an off duty cop. If I had tried to approach that Jeep the first time, I would have been run over when it shifted into reverse. Be very careful of running vehicles that have wrecked!!

 

[308win]

While sober folks get butchered.

Exactly, and unless he got drunk at home and went for his joy ride someone sold him the last several drinks that put him in that state. If it was just the drunk sustaining the damage, who would give a damn? Certainly not I; and good luck on getting any good samaritan assistance from me.

 

[Shadow 7D]

The point is, a bartender is engaged in a legal business activity, and your removing personal responsibility, the drunk went to a bar with the intention of consuming a mind altering chemical.

SoSome bars have been sued even though they called the cab, offered a hotel room etc. SO even if you did call in a background, did a NICS etc. what is to stop someone from suing your for furnishing a firearm that is used in a crime?

308, if you sell a gun in a FTF to a violent criminal who then uses the gun to injure someone, you should be sued for everything your worth?

That is your argument, while you may not like alcohol, its like guns, making it illegal doesn't work. period

 

[Jeff White]

If you are going to keep dealing with drunks at car wrecks, might I suggest you consider adding some big wire zip ties to your medical bag.

Not the best idea. Opens you up to criminal charges of unlawful restraint and you aren't permitted to force anyone to receive medical attention could get you sued. Physically restraining someone is best left to the police.

If someone doesn't want your assistance, leave, it's just that simple.

 

[308win]

No it is not the same. If the buyer passes the background check you have fulfilled your obligation. Your example would have automobile dealers responsible for contributing to the cause of a collision because they sold the car. Sending a person out the door with a lawfully purchased firearm is a far cry from watching or even allowing a drunk out the door and into his car. Selling alcohol to someone beyond the point of impairment is willful negligance.
You don't know whether or not I approve or don't approve of alcohol; what you do know is that I don't approve of persons continuing to be served when reach impairment or beyond.

 

[DammitBoy]

So 308win - you are a bartender that just cut a guy off because he has become visibly impaired.

How do you stop him from getting into his car and driving off?

How do you stop him from getting more alcohol?

 

[Shadow 7D]

Yeah he passed a background check, with an "obviously false ID" and, and, and.

In my example, I showed a situation where a bartender did the right thing, but that does not stop someone from suing, by your own words, SO

what is to stop someone from suing you if you do the right thing?

 

[308win]

I was a bartender; I knew how much the customers were consuming and I could tell if someone came in already impaired. Your question should be why was he served to the point of impairment? If you cut the customer off you don't have the issue to deal with. Will he go somewhere else? Probably and he will find someone who will contiunue to serve him. That is a business decision and also illegal in Ohio at least with consequences.

 

[hankdatank1362]

"Reasonable effort" must be exhausted by the bartnder to prevent an intoxicated guest from leaving by car.

However, the guest doesn't have to listen, and I have no arrest powers. So.... if a drunk insists on driving, the police get called. Rarely do they get out of the parking lot before the police arrive.

 

[bababooey32]

What training to bartenders have to decide who is impaired and who is not? There are plenty of folks who are impaired to the point that they shouldn't be driving, but aren't falling over the barstool. Do bartenders receive the same training as police officers in detecting drunk patrons? It seems difficult to hold them responsible for somone else's behavior when they have no special training to do anything about it.

 

[DammitBoy]

Unless 308win was superman when he was a bartender, he must not have been serving too many folks if he could keep up with everybody in his bar. As to 'knowing' if a person was already drunk - tell me kreskin, how would you know if a guy just did several shots of booze in his car right before he sat down and ordered a beer from you? You can't know everything and you can't be everywhere.

Where I work you have 300-400 folks all buying all night long. What about the guy that comes up and buys four beers for his table? How do you know who is wasted and who is not?

How about the shot girl selling your customer shots that you didn't see? How about the flask in his back pocket you don't see him use?

Too many variables, too many folks to keep up with, too much opportunity for you to be blamed for something beyond your control.

As for calling the cops, yeah right. Their response time will never beat a drunk getting to his car. You can't physically restrain him, you don't have time to even deal with him if you are expected to keep serving your customers.

There is only one person truly accountable for the drunk guys actions and that's the drunk guy.

 

[Sheldon J]

You cannot argue, logic or reason with a drunk, and I do not go to bar's period, My preferred drink is iced tea.

If confronted by one all you can do is agree with them and even that may not work.

Their motor skills are severely compromised so if they try and run they will likely trip over their own feet, so just get away from them and their stupidity.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i used to be a blackout drinker. and appeared sober to most folks scary business. 20 years later i still fear somebody coming up to me and saying "hello dad". bartenders would be hard pressed to tell how drunk i was unless they served me all 20 drinks. and i usually bar crawled a number of places to prevent that

 

[Shadow 7D]

Actually, when I lived in NC, the cops parked at a few of the more notorious bars lots, most were on the same strip, so.... Not a smart place to drink and drive. When ever we went out, we had a DD, his cover was paid, cokes were free, and if it was a strip club, everybody chipped in to get him a few dances. He got us home safe. Some of my friends were the 2 cases (60 beers) a night sort of drunk, they didn't show how intoxicated they were, until the puked, fell over, and started on the next case.

I was room mates with a bartender, loved his stories, but he always told me it was very hard to tell when to cut someone off unless it was blatantly obvious. Then he would call the cops parked outside, they would give him their cell, most of the time they tried to convince the guy to take a cab.

 

[Oyeboten]

You cannot argue, logic or reason with a drunk..

It's only rarely much of a success with sober people, for that matter...

 

[Green Dragoon]

Every drunk is different. I have dealt with one drunk for years when he sees me he is friendly. When I cuff him he loves me, when he is in the back of the cruiser I am a so and so When he arrives at the jail he takes a swing at me every time. He has yet to ever come close to making contact. The next day I am his best pal. I have had drunks literally get in the back of the car and ask to go to jail crying the whole way. I have had drunks that were funny , sad and , passed out. Basically they are all as different as people are sober , read body language, what they say , or don't say and expect the worst. No one loves this momas son as much as I do.