OT/SHTF/ How much stuff can...

[eclancy]

Gentlemen,
..you run with....
This subject has been talked about for a long time on the net. The way things are going today there maybe a reason that could trigger it i.e. dirty bomb, gas attack, etc,etc. The problem is that you MUST LEAVE your home, with a family of 4. Ok many of you have different types of rifles and ammo. How much can you jam into your car, truck, etc. Think of all that you would have to leave behind. Remember, your not at home. You must have or find food, shelter, water and a means to protect those. What type of area would you head for. I guess my point is most of you have most of the equipment but do you have a plan???
Thanks again
Clancy
ps remember gas for you trip money or CC may mean nothing

 

[Leif]

How much can you run with?

Not nearly as much as most people think they can! These people who think they're going to run through a Mad Max scenario lugging an auto rifle (plus magazines), a "sniper rifle" (to reach out there), a primary handgun, a backup handgun, and a .22 for game provision will more likely waddle to their demise; I may exaggerate some, but not too much. Too many video games, I guess.

I hike a fair bit, so my ridiculously nightmarish SHTF situation equipment (assuming foot travel as opposed to car travel) basically is my hiking equipment, a few small personal items, plus two firearms (Marlin 1894 and S&W Mountain Gun, both .44mag) and ammo; significant other can carry the .22rifle and ammo in addition to her hiking stuff (she's never shot a gun in her life and has no intention of ever doing so, so basically she becomes a porter with respect to firearms). The emphasis is on light; even the addition of the other items beyond the basic hiking gear will slow our rate of travel, and we're talking about walking here, not running.

The addition of a car means the cats and the shotgun get to come along for the ride. As per destination, that's classified. (OK, not really)

 

[Sgt Stevo]

Earthquake in SF

The big one is our biggest fear here in the bay area. I was in the 7.1 back in 89. I was home on leave.

The whole valley shut down. If really big one hits, it will be worse. I have a cabin up in the sac foothills area. And we are in the process of buying a new 4x4.

I also have friends in most directions. And one highroad moderator who livesin the mountains above us.

So I will have to pick my route and go to whichever I can get to.

I have water, mre's,etc. BUt my biggest problem is my has to take an insulin shot every few hours.
All I need is my mini-30 and one of my pistole and I think we will be good. That and a couple of my protection dogs. The big problem, will be goods and services will shut down.

So I need to get my family out, and return to my SAR unit. And help out. Scary, and it will happen.

 

[KINGMAX]

Pevention + Preperation = a head start to success

Remember the 6 'P's for success = Proper planning prevents piss poor performance. My father was a Sargent Major in the Special Forecs, (Team A-24). This was a code he lived by prior to leaving on any project. I am very proud of my Dad, he is my HERO.

 

[wingnutx]

If there is a dirty bomb or gas attack, I am staying inside my house with the AC turned off and the windows shut.

Might even break out the much-derided duct tape.

The last thing I am going to do is run around out in the bad stuff.

A layer of VX or sarin on my house won't hurt me a bit. Going outside and touching it will.

 

[pcf]

Not how much can you pack, how little can you survive with.

Without water I can backpack for 5 days with a 35 pound pack. Adding 2 gallons of water adds about 19 pounds (water and containers). That's about my limit for comfortable hiking and the weight at which I can hike safely for days.

I once did a 26 mile hump, after the fifth mile ended up carrying a 240G and after 15 got the tripod too, I finished the hump, but afterwords spent two week on chit. Crossed the line between hard and stupid.

You can probably carry your body weight plus 50 pounds without too many problems, but for how long and what's it going to do to your body afterwords.

You can just as quickly kill yourself when your ankles swell till you can't get your boots on, your toes bleed, your arches bruise and blisters are everywhere. You can be hard as hell, but your not walking anywhere.

I have a plan, a vehicle is a bonus not a neccessity, cars overheat and breakdown in traffic, run out of gas.......

 

[Manedwolf]

Since I have plenty of food and water in a basement storage bin, I think the only thing that would make me LEAVE my area would be something like Seabrook nuclear busting its containment or something.

Otherwise, why would you want to get into a traffic jam with lots of sheep who didn't prepare, who will just give you trouble and perhaps cause mob riots?

 

[vynx]

I live in the San Fernando Valley and there is no way I could drive out of here after an attack. On the Thursday or Friday before a holiday the 15 to Las Vegas is backed up for about 300 miles all the way from Vegas to Fontana - actually further south down the 15. Taking the 5 north or the 101 north would be just as bad. I figure unless I have a premonition and listen to it (which has never happened); I have no choice but to hunker down and ride it out or die. Seriously, we have 2 dogs and 4 cats, my wife wouldn't leave them behind and by the time I got her into a vehicle without them it would be all over or too late to run.

The good thing is all I need now is too make sure I have enough water, food & ammo.

 

[Low-Sci]

Really depends...

If it's a natural disaster, take a gun- only ONE GUN PER PERSON - and make the rest something more practical. You'll use ten pounds of ham sandwiches much more often than ten pounds of rifle. And even for us young un's, ten pounds can get heavy after a while.

If it's a situation that automatically renders every civilian a warfighter by necessity and you have to equip yourself to go to war with martians, zombies, children of the corn, or 18th century pirates, that's different. A couple orders of magnitude less likely as well, but that rarely stops people from considering it.

I guess I would do it like this: figure out what you'd need to carry with you. Then, assume you can only take half of that, and it weighs four times as much as it really does. Then figure out what you'd really need. Repeat as needed until you have a weight that you can load a pack with and train with.

All the gear in the world won't mean squat if you're too out of shape to transport it, and too exhausted to use it correctly once you're done carrying it.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Apparently, I can run while carrying a chainsaw, Beretta 92, GE Minigun, Remington 870, Stoeger Coach gun, an autoloading rocket launcher, a prototype plasma rifle, and a BFG 9000.

While taking out various demons of the underworld.



Most I've ever run with is 45 pounds in a pack for a half-mile. If the SHTF, I'm cutting through secluded areas and walking. And that's just after the car dies. Again.

 

[jgeiken]

I'm from WI. And even thought I'm sure we are the last on a list of terrorist targets. My family still has a plan. We have a cabin about 2 hours north of here, on a lake, with plenty of wildlife around. In the event of some sort of emergency. My family agrees that we all meet at the cabin. None of us try to go pick up the other or try to take anything more than we need. I personally would bring myself, my roomate, my Rock River M4gery, and my XD .40. The xd with about 100 rds. but the m4 with much more (probably about 400 rds.) just in case im up there for a while. I always keep the gas topped in my car and have found some backroads out of the busy and densly populated city of milwaukee.

At the first sign of trouble i leave for the cabin. If cell lines are down at least we know we will all be in the same place. There is an endless supply of clean water, plenty of food. And we can hunt if and when the food runs out. I also have a bag packed with necessary ammo, and keep a supply of bottled water in the house at all times. From A "dirty bomb", to a day after tommorow style disaster. I'm pretty confident that I am ready to be somewhere safe, defendable, and somewhere that i know where everyone in my immediate family will end up. and if they dont show up there.... well then thats something i dont want to think about. Perhaps im a little overprepared... But i think katrina has shown us all that it is better to be overprepared than to sit on the roof of your house waving a nasty bath towel at a helicopter.

 

[Manedwolf]

But i think katrina has shown us all that it is better to be overprepared than to sit on the roof of your house waving a nasty bath towel at a helicopter.

That whole bit reminded me of one of my most adamant recommendations...that if you ARE in serious isolated trouble and need air rescue (flash flood, etc) it's good to always have a few 12-gauge flares with your shotgun ammo. Just make sure you keep it behind something out of view of the helicopter when firing, or the response might not be the one you want!

Especially if you're in a suburban area. I suspect that fair or not, if there's a lot of trapped people, Coast Guard and the like might be more likely to head for a bona-fide rescue flare going up than they would to the endless people waving towels.

See the helicopter, send up flares, if it comes your way, light hand flares, too. If it means they might be questioning whether it's downed service personnel or such and head your way instead...well, in that sort of situation, any advantage to protect your family?

 

[Leif]

Katrina also reminded me that if you have the warning, opportunity, and means, you shouldn't stick around awaiting an impending SHTF event unless you have a really good reason for doing so. The best survival strategy, IMHO, is not staying in a place where you're likely to have to employ any survival strategies when you know you might have to beforehand!

 

[ball3006]

I have a fully stocked camp....

120 miles away, less guns. I always have one gas tank in my truck full at all times. I have a foot locker in my truck with basic camping/survival items. When I retire next year, I won't have to worry much about SHTF. I am upwind, most of the time, from the city and out of range of a terrorist size nuke.......chris3

 

[Rugerlvr]

I live in another possible Earthquake area. If I have to stay in my home, I'm fine. If I have to leave. I dunno. I'm not planning to take anything except My SHTF rifle (Mini-14), P89, and food, water & temporary shelter, all of which I have. The wife and I are in the process of condensing the necessities into a couple of grub boxes, and camping gear storage area in the garage. Water storage and cases of MREs in the basement. -- We gotta condense because we're actually planning a camping trip next week

 

[Yakko]

I live at the beginning of a mountain pass. I have friends on the other side of the pass. (A 1/3 tank of gas will cover the trip.) If I had to leave I'd head their way or vice versa.

Only three reasons to leave:
1. radiation
2. biological
3. chemical

 

[silliman89]

I have a plan, which is basically to have everything I need at a remote location. That way I don't have to carry anything. I just have to get there with the family.

The only problem is that I haven't implemented the plan yet. I have the location, but nothing there yet.

I figure there's still plenty of time, right guys? ... Hello? ... Guys? ... Anybody there? ... Uh-oh ...

 

[Boom-stick]

Does anyone take fishing equipment with them??

I, for one would pack my spear fishing rig, it's a travel version that packs down nice and small.

 

[Koobuh]

Well, if it came to that...
we'd probably head east to pick up family, and try to link up with a couple capable people on the way to the hills.
No definate plan exists, unfortunately; that is because, our house is on high, stable ground far away from literally everything that might be in danger of attack.
Barring the local town's Police Chief and a couple Sheriff's deputies that live a few houses down, anyway.
If something goes down, we're hunkering and waiting it out.

Oh, and as far as firearms, why wouldn't you just take a single, sturdy shotgun? A few rounds of a couple different types and you're set for literally everything from rabbits to robots. Unless you're actively LOOKING for trouble, you'll do perfectly fine with just that, at least by my reasoning.

 

[Leif]

Oh, and as far as firearms, why wouldn't you just take a single, sturdy shotgun? A few rounds of a couple different types and you're set for literally everything from rabbits to robots. Unless you're actively LOOKING for trouble, you'll do perfectly fine with just that, at least by my reasoning.

Because if for some reason you happen to be on foot, shotgun ammunition is both heavy and bulky, which will lead to problems very quickly. That's why, in my post, the pistol caliber carbine is for foot travel, the shotgun for car travel.

Shotguns also tend to weigh a bit more than your average carbine, unless you've decide to load the dang thing down with tons of tactical doodads. Another issue to consider if rapid foot travel is in order.

 

[Zero_DgZ]

Me, I'd take a basic, knockaround pump action shotgun and a pistol. Pistol should be chambered in 9x19 nowadays, or whatever the most common pistol round of the oppresors (ask for it by name) happens to be in your locality.

If I can't hit it with the shotgun or the pistol I'm not to keen on trying to engage it, because at that rate it's probably entrenched, vehicle mounted, or has lots of friends.

Shotgun ammo is easy to find, even if you have to resort to busting into a Kmart or sporting goods store. Makes a big bang, people are scared of it. Even birdshot does a number on doors and locks.

Works for me.

 

[72Rover]

Manedwolf brings up a good point - and apologies for hijacking the thread....

>That whole bit reminded me of one of my most adamant >recommendations...that if you ARE in serious isolated trouble
>and need air rescue (flash flood, etc) it's good to always have
>a few 12-gauge flares with your shotgun ammo. Just make
>sure you keep it behind something out of view of the helicopter
>when firing, or the response might not be the one you want!

Good idea...I've got two dozen or so of these from my sailboat. The CG wants to see new ones (three year old or less, I think) during the annual inspection, so I've just held onto the old ones. How badly do these foul up the tube? (All that chlorate has got to be pretty corosive.) Only ever shot 'em out of the 12 ga plastic launcher pistol....

 

[benEzra]

Oh, and as far as firearms, why wouldn't you just take a single, sturdy shotgun? A few rounds of a couple different types and you're set for literally everything from rabbits to robots. Unless you're actively LOOKING for trouble, you'll do perfectly fine with just that, at least by my reasoning.

Because I don't own one, and likely never will. I enjoy shooting carbines and handguns, and like most gun owners I don't hunt, so I don't really have a use for a shotgun. Anything the 9mm won't handle, a carbine will.

I don't have anything against shotguns, though. (Never argue with anything that's .729 caliber!)

 

[goon]

In my limited experience, shotguns are very versatile.
With a switch of ammo I can go from a gun that is perfectly suited to indoor defense (reduced recoil buck), outdoor defense (3" Federal full power 00 buck), or even knocking off the nearest big mean animal (slugs). If I had to I could even knock off something little and furry to eat with it.

The problems with a shotgun are that eventhough ammo is common, it is heavy. You can carry a couple rounds of .308 or maybe 4 rounds of 5.56 for one round of 12 gauge and what benefit do you gain from it? You can shoot a rabbit with it but shotguns are loud. It might not be a good idea if you can't afford to draw attention. A shotgun go from up close defense to killing a deer with a switch of ammo but a 5.56, 7.62x39, or .308 will work from point blank to 200 yards or so by just putting the sights on your target. A shotgun would give you the advantage that in the dark you would stand a better chance of hitting but what about the pellets that miss? They are going somewhere. Odds are that at some point law and order will be restored. Can you afford to just haphazardly send projectiles everwhere? The same thing would apply with a full power rifle cartridge on this one.

I am thinking that a 5.56mm has a lot of potential for the type of weapon that would be needed for this.
The rifles themselves are light and compact and if you go with an AR it can be dissassembled and reassembled in seconds. A folding stock AK would be pretty compact too.
The ammo is common and made in this country. Even if you are paying more for it, there was still lots of Federal, Winchester, and UMC 223 ammo around locally when 7.62x39 was nonexistent.
The ammo is light so you can carry more for the same amount of weight or carry less weight and the same amount of ammo. Or split the difference.
The 5.56 is occasionally critisized for difficulty penetrating barriers. In a SHTF, that may mean the difference between one of your misses not killing some innocent bystander where a shot from a larger round would have. If you need penetration you can switch to a mag full of SS109 and have a better chance, although from my understanding it will still not equal the penetration of a heavier round.
The round is generally more accurate than the 7.62x39 (at least the ones I have shot). This may be due to who is making the ammo, but that has been my experience.
Another factor for me is that not everyone in my family is well acquainted with guns. Even my dad, who has shot for over 50 years, would find my AR easier to handle than something heavier. He has degenerative arthritis in his shoulders and the lesser recoil is something he welcomes.

For my uses, my little Olympic AR may just be about perfect. I plan to put a compact 4x scope on it and get ahold of some heavier ammo and see what it will do.
A shorter barreled FAL might do too. With some careful load selection you can switch from something for an urban area to something that will shoot through some stuff. Mine is heavy though and that would be a factor when 2 pounds less of rifle means another quart of water.

 

[bigj8550]

I live in southern Indiana. After the fall of the USSR I learned somethings that made me go to my current plan. During the cold war my town had two ICBMs aimed at use due to the city's quick industrial change over during WW2 to build p47's LST's and other war machines. Here is a quick overview of my plan. This is by now mean all encompassing. And can be changed at a moments notice. In my garage I have an 84 F150 4WD full undercarriage skid plates 31X10.50r15 3" body lift. I keep it filled up with stabil in the tank I also start it once a month and run it every two months and refill the gas tank every year. It is a long bed with a Camper shell in the bed is a 12 gauge and 2 9mm hand guns, (cheap ones) 1000 rds of 9mm, 500 rds of buck shot, and 200 rds of slugs. All common camping equipment and 2 cases MRE 's. This truck will accommodate my family and I also keep small replacement parts like belts, hoses, and common failure parts in the bed. And some other choice equipment. I have also worked to make sure that everything in the truck is non electronic in case of EMP. Any thought or comments. BTW in my other choice equipment I do keep gas masks and replacement cartridges.