OTF knives

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Tirod

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Given that many states don't allow "switchblades," that many states don't allow "dagger" blades, ie two sharpened edges, and that certain laws restrict their import - much less how they may be legally or otherwise labeled -

Do you have one and what is your experience with Out The Front knives?
 
Actually, thanks to the work of Knife Rights quite a few states do allow OTF and side opening automatics now.

I owned a Microtech Ultratech for a few months before a friend offered me more than I paid for it at Blade. I didn't care for the double edge blade, but it otherwise it was very sturdy. The Ultratech was much nicer than a friend's Benchmade Infidel, which is a fine knife in its own right. Because of the spring and switch mechanisms on OTFs the handles are dis-proportionally longer and thicker than the blades when compared to conventional folders. If you get a quality OTF from a reputable manufacturer they're perfectly serviceable pocket knives. If I were to buy another auto I'd get a double action (slider button can auto close as well as auto open the blade) single edge Microtech like an Ultratech, Troodon, or UTX before I bought a side opener. I have a few years of school left with to complete a career change, but I probably will buy one of the listed knives once I have secure employment. That's because, despite their quirks, good quality OTFs really do feel nice in the hand, and they're quite enjoyable to use and just play with.

The last good thing about Microtechs and other nicer OTFs is that they tend to hold their value and are usually easy to sell. So if you want to try one out you probably won't lose much money if don't like it and decide to move on.
 
OTFs are legal to own in most states now thanks to Knife Rights.

A good quality OTF, like the aforementioned Ultratech, brings a premium. Minimal affordable quality is from Paragon. Going up from there is HK and Benchmade then Piranha, Protech and finally Microtech.

OTFs come dagger and non dagger blade shapes.
 
I had a large custom OTF with a Bren blade. You had to cock it by pulling on the rear of the knife. The blade came out with authority, but nothing like the myth of the blade being able to penetrate various items as it came out.

I also had a full sized Microtech Ultratech and still have a Microtech UTX70, a 70% version which makes a great small pocket knife.

The knives all performed well, and I had no problems with any of them. As a LEO I was able to carry them in a restricted state, but the UTX70 sadly currently resides in a drawer due to the same restrictions.
 
I carry a Kershaw Scrambler in my right coat pocket, I like the flippers the best, but I can't really operate a flipper or a thumbstud well with my left hand so I carry a Viper 3 in my left coat pocket.

You have to be very mindful of either carrying it in such a way that no debris can get into it or keeping it in a pocket with nothing else in it.

The first time it was made inoperable, a dime found its way into the opening. The second time it was made inoperable, a small piece of plastic found its way into the innards of the knife.

I was able to fish the dime out without dissembling the knife but the second time I had to disassemble the knife. I thought at first that the spring was wearing down or that the knife just needed a cleaning. The blade would deploy but not with enough force to lock. When I took the knife apart I found the small piece of plastic, causing just enough friction to slow the blade down and keep it from locking.

I think the OTF has limited usefulness. Could I cut rope or open boxes with it if I needed to? Yes, but its a little awkward, and the blade doesn't have rock-solid lock up, there is a little play back and forth and up and down.

Its an additional self defense weapon for me. If for some reason I can't deploy my firearm and I can't use my right hand period, I have something I can bring into play with my left hand.

That about it...
 
I was given a absolutly horrible, cheap OTF by an unknowing relative. 440A SS of dubious heat treat and pig metal innards.
Heed the advce hso gives, the cheapies are dangerous.
 
I do not think OTFs make good daily carry knives. Like traditional side-opening autos with the plunge lock, there are other options that cost less, can be deployed quicker, will likely last much longer, and will have more capability thanks to a more solid locking mechanism.

The locks are nowhere near as strong as other opening/locking mechanisms and IMO they are far too weak to ever use a OTF for defense, the blade itself will have a small amount of play as it must by design, the process of disassembling for cleaning & lubricating is generally more complex, OTFs themselves are more finicky and often have a shorter service life, and if you ever send the knife to the Maker for repair or sharpening, most knife makers will NOT ship the knife back to you until you establish your LE/Military credentials. Finally, I find OTFs make people much more uneasy than a manual folder. If you want a good OTF, you're talking a few hundred bucks at least. YMMV.
 
I use to collect and carry Microtech OTFs. They are great kinives, but expensive. The HALO series knives were my favorites.

I quit carrying them because I realized they were not as reliable as a standard locking folder. Lint, dust, and other debris can enter through the opening in the handle and cause the knife to malfuntion when deployed. I saw this quite a bit from my Ultratech DE while in Iraq. I still have it, but have sold off my other ones.
 
Ordered an inexpensive OTF to try out. Yes, I would like to buy a Protech, but the cost/benefits don't add up. That applies across the board for all automatics - we still see them 2X higher than an equivalent folder made from the same materials. The Boker button lock remains a good example, add a 50c spring and the price doubles.

I understand how an OTF might not hold up for daily use - except there are so many who DO edc them and no complaints. A pocket knife doesn't make a good defensive choice when you can pocket carry a .380 or larger these days, so it's robustness as a hard use combat weapon is moot. Can it hold up to opening boxes and cleaning your fingernails? That is what happens most of the time. If you need a heavier cutter you get it from a sheath or toolbox. Folding knives as hard use combat tools have never been a good choice. An OTF wouldn't be, either.

Can it fill up with crud and malfunction? Sure. I have folders that have. Can the lock fail, sure. I have assisted openers that will walk a liner lock out of engagement and close on your fingers, major Brand names. Spine whacking may not be an accepted test, but simply knocking it on a leather covered steering wheel and seeing it fail is still a valid example of Bad Worksmanship. Respected companies make junk, too, and the forums are full of examples.

So, from an older perspective with a long time carrying knives, OTF's are just as subject to things that already do cause problems with folders. They aren't exempt. It also goes to maintenance and the fact that open frame folders get more junk in them, too. I find the comments on the propensity of OTF's to have issues to be one sided - all knives with separate blades have issues. Back springs break on lock backs and screws fall out of a lot of linerlocks these days. Fail.

As for the blade having play and wiggling around most knives do that to some degree or other. It's a fit and finish issue, not a failure point making the knife completely ineffective. If there is a singular problem it's that the knives I have that do disengage the lock, it's because of Teflon or spring washers that allow the blade to rock sideways and that is how the liner lock engagement walks out. Again, major Brand names.

I have not heard of an OTF with that problem. And if it did, it will not close up on your fingers. It retracts in a safe direction taking the blade out of action. In that regard the OTF is safer.

I think what we have is a lot of internet myth about the disadvantages of OTF's based on a lot of inexperience and simply repeating what someone has read elsewhere. Therefore I am going to try one out to find out for myself.

We will eventually get OTF's with nitride AUS8 blades in G10 handles priced a few dollars over the knives already on the market - like, the Camillus Hustle for $28. Right now those are "Hong Kong specials" and still overpriced. The American makers won't touch that for less than $200 simply because the market is lined up and forking over the money as fast as they can save it up. But a spoiler will come in at a lower price and things will get shaken up.

Good time to think about how one could be bench assembled from parts you farmed out to subcontractors. I wouldn't even put it out on a Kickstarter, just open your own website after you have 20,000 in stock to cover the crazy demand for the first months.
 
I own a Microtech, but it hardly ever leaves my dresser drawer. The reason is simple: I am afraid to lose it. It cost too much for me to just shrug off losing it. I had a near miss with it right after I got it. I lost it, and eventually found it under my pickup's seat. At that point, I decided to quit carrying it.

I buy stuff like this just because I think it is cool. I don't care if it is an effective combat weapon. I don't even care all that much if it is a good general purpose pocket knife. So, just having it to play with and look at is good enough for me.

I do (like everybody else) have the need to have a knife that sometimes needs to be easily opened with one hand. Simply because you often need to cut something you are holding in the other hand. So, I realized long ago that IMO knives incorporating "the Wave" are much faster to deploy than automatic knives and there is no legal problem with them as far as I know. Another thing that I really like about "the Wave" is that someone (whom ever came up with the idea) said, OK, you want to make it illegal to do this, so I will create something better. Sort of getting one over on the man.
In the state I live in, I can legally carry an automatic knife, but I seldom do even though I own a dozen of them or more. Again, I bought them just because I think they are cool. I guess it is sort of the forbidden fruit thing. There is some stigma associated with them, so that attracts me to them. I don't really think they are all that practical as a tool.
 
"In the state I I've in, I can legally carry an automatic knife..."

You list your location as OH. I was under the impression auto knives were not legal to carry there.

Can you elaborate please?
 
Said questions above to help clarify what the knife carrying public thinks they know.

I keep reading that OTF's are much more prone to jamming up - and yet others who use them say it's not so. If anything the average OTF shields the internal workings far more than the typical open frame side folder. And if you let it get that filthy, what other kinds of trash is in your pocket? Also, why not use the clip and hang it tip down, to keep it suspended away from the dirt and debris collecting in the pocket?

I see guys hauling out credit cards with more abrasion and damage on them than their knives. Nobody much tolerates their pockets filling up with grit and trash, their wallet? Take a closer look at your buddies credit cards, they can appear to be sandblasted.

I think we are seeing a lot of internet myth getting repeated rather than actual experience.

As for the laws they change constantly. I bought a small push dagger last year "knowing" it was restricted from carry in MO, CCW or not. Lo and behold I check recently after purchasing a single edge OTF and maybe not - current law and interpretation seem to allow it. Because CCW.

Check around on the web and don't take any one site as 100% accurate: http://nicnac.net/contents/en-us/d49_knife_laws_state.html

I've found conflicts in the information gleaned from just one site compared to another - using the same sources. And as always, officer discretion will be part of the equation.
 
I keep reading that OTF's are much more prone to jamming up - and yet others who use them say it's not so. If anything the average OTF shields the internal workings far more than the typical open frame side folder. And if you let it get that filthy, what other kinds of trash is in your pocket? Also, why not use the clip and hang it tip down, to keep it suspended away from the dirt and debris collecting in the pocket?

I see guys hauling out credit cards with more abrasion and damage on them than their knives. Nobody much tolerates their pockets filling up with grit and trash, their wallet? Take a closer look at your buddies credit cards, they can appear to be sandblasted.

I think we are seeing a lot of internet myth getting repeated rather than actual experience. .

Here is some actual experience.

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I won't even carry a bearing flipper to work. Never mind an auto, even if it was legal.
 
The question seemd a simple one:

Do you have one and what is your experience with Out The Front knives?

I thought you asked it because you wanted information so I gave you my actual experience with my OTF.
 
cdk8,

What OTFs have you owned with those problems?
Specifically? Two Infidels (the spear point double and single-edged drop point), one of the BM-made H&K branded OTFs (outstanding knife for the money), MT Ultratech (I think gen 4), Makora, QD Scarab, UTX-70, a MOD model I cannot recall, and the SandShark (this one's a very beefy design.) All had their pros and cons but all had more blade play than their side-opening similarly-priced counterparts, and the gentleman who posted after me who thinks my opinion is formed by heresay also seems to think that folders priced the same as high-end OTFs have blade play...no, high end folders in that price range should lock up like a vault. Heck, you can get a Les George Project VECP for around the same price as a Microtech, and the current state of Microtech is laughable when compared to George knives.

Certainly Microtech makes a good OTF, but their double-action bolster-engaged autos seriously outshined them, and during production they were roughly the same price. The last (standard production) Microtech OTF I was truly impressed by was the original Makora.
 
Can it fill up with crud and malfunction? Sure. I have folders that have. Can the lock fail, sure. I have assisted openers that will walk a liner lock out of engagement and close on your fingers, major Brand names. Spine whacking may not be an accepted test, but simply knocking it on a leather covered steering wheel and seeing it fail is still a valid example of Bad Worksmanship. Respected companies make junk, too, and the forums are full of examples.

So, from an older perspective with a long time carrying knives, OTF's are just as subject to things that already do cause problems with folders. They aren't exempt. It also goes to maintenance and the fact that open frame folders get more junk in them, too. I find the comments on the propensity of OTF's to have issues to be one sided - all knives with separate blades have issues. Back springs break on lock backs and screws fall out of a lot of linerlocks these days. Fail.

As for the blade having play and wiggling around most knives do that to some degree or other. It's a fit and finish issue, not a failure point making the knife completely ineffective. If there is a singular problem it's that the knives I have that do disengage the lock, it's because of Teflon or spring washers that allow the blade to rock sideways and that is how the liner lock engagement walks out. Again, major Brand names.

I think what we have is a lot of internet myth about the disadvantages of OTF's based on a lot of inexperience and simply repeating what someone has read elsewhere. Therefore I am going to try one out to find out for myself.

You asked for people's experiences...why did you bother making a thread in the first place if you already knew the answer you wanted to hear?

Instead of questioning the integrity of others, why not just ask for further elaboration as to why someone feels the way they do? For example...

  • Price - cheap OTFs are pretty worthless, a good OTF can cost as much as a Sebenza. Some of the very pricey OTFs cost as much as a Rockwell.
  • Blade steel & thickness - the limits in form factor seems to often make it harder to use a blade geared towards EDC (with occasional exceptions, such as the Microtech UTX-70).
  • Blade shape vs. edge geometry - the blade's form factor obviously limits how much consideration can be given to blade geometry. A blade with excellent geometry cuts with less force, holds a sharp edge longer, is easier to sharpen, and has a prolonged service life because it reduces wear.
  • PC factor=problems with the law - forget what is on paper...bust out a big OTF and open it and people are going to get freaked out. A cop may not care about interpretations of law...especially given how most people still consider the original Switchblade act to still be active verbatim, and automatic knives are still (illogically) considered by many to be socially deviant.
  • Self-service nightmares - ever take a OTF apart? Even if you can get the Microtech tool for their proprietary screws, it's a huge PITA. Folders priced the same as many OTFs are designed to be taken apart, cleaned, and put back together in just a few minutes.
  • Parts replacement - in most cases, makers are not going to send any parts for automatics other than pocket clips - call them up if you think it is heresay
  • Dirt & gunk hindering lockup - obviously the knife needs to have a lot of crud crammed into it to compromise the lockup, but it most certainly can happen and it is much, much, much easier to happen compared to a frame lock.
  • Visuals - it is much harder to perform periodic checks to visibly see signs that the knife is failing or needs service.
  • Company policy - read the terms that Benchmade, KAI, Spyderco, Microtech, Protech, and others state on their website. If you do not live in the same state that their factory has, and you do not provide proof of military or LE, they will NOT ship an automatic back to you. If someone purchases a knife that costs several hundred dollars or more, periodically they may want to send it to the maker for cleaning, sharpening, tuning, etc., and should the knife have an issue they will likely want to have it repaired given the value of the knife...all of this is made more complicated due to the above-listed reason.
    https://www.benchmade.com/warranty-service

Kershaw recently came out with a new line of side-opening autos called the Launch. It is an American-made knife that uses an aluminum body and CPM-154 steel, which is arguably superior to most 'super steels', and yet it costs under $90. An OTF with the same quality build will easily cost twice as much.
 
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No, but I have several side folder switches, all cheapos bought on Indian reservations. I would love an OTF, but I am somewhat scared by them. I have had folders spring open in pockets and at least that style keeps the cutting edge somewhat protected, but OTF would have been in my leg. I gotta read up on the safeties before I consider one, to me OTF is more unnerving than carrying a pistol IWB pointed towards the baby-makin section.
 
I accidentally deployed the Viper3 in my coat pocket, it made a tiny hole in the pocket, maybe a little larger than a pinhole - that was it, the blade didn't fully deploy and didn't make much of a hole.
 
I have a cheap OTF - $39 - and it's no more worthless than a $25 folder. It cuts down boxes, or opens them, cleans fingernails, and does most of the other stuff an inexpensive knife does. I've had Branded knives that were problematic out of the box and a huge disappointment - like the Buck Strider Tarani in 420 and FRN. Bad lock, soft steel, overdone features, riveted construction, abrasive checkering that damaged jeans within a few days. In comparison the OTF is looking ok. Not the quality of a BM Rift or Strider SnG, no. Worthless? That's overreacting.

Form factor on blade steels, shape and grind do make a difference but a lot of it is also user skill. Changing up from the OTF to a BM CQC7 chisel grind tanto reminds me of how it steers to one side cutting and has no belly at all. The OTF I chose is a simple single edge blade grind with swedge with is about average on the market, and handles about average for the knives I own. So far it hasn't needed sharpening but I'm just using it EDC to see what will result.

PC factor is local. MO allows OTF daggers if you have a CCW permit. When and where to use it is entirely up to the discretion of the owner. I've been criticized for wearing a Buck sheath in an office environment during deer season - but the same individual had a 8" butcher knife in her purse to cut some going away cake later in the day. I suspect some of us can have a problem with ANY knife at all in some circumstances, you have to use brain matter and judgment. Why an officer would stop and frisk is related to what were you thinking? In MO not currently a major legal issue above and beyond any other knife. I realize YMMV and officer discretion is involved, but I've never been stopped and frisked in 63 years outside of MP training. Laws are rapidly changing and switchblades are not as heavily legislated as they once were.

I don't have self service issues with knives - and if they fall apart I don't blame the maker or send them back for service. I can sharpen one well enough, and writing to ask for a part seems to be supported by others who have done it. Working on my own cars and building AR's hasn't proven to be a deal stopper other than simple financial analysis - is it worth the repair cost yes/no? The last OTF I owned came to me heavily used, a cast Nato which broke some internal bit off. I tossed it - the same as I toss other disposable use items. You get what you pay for, and paying $300 for an exotic blade (which I have done) means being choosy and not getting yourself jammed into a corner. Blaming the tool for poor judgment isn't something I indulge in.

Dirt and crud can get into a open sided frame or liner lock much easier, and there is a lot of it out there. Pocket lint, food stuff, grit, sand, whatever - but for the most part I see credit cards torn up from it a lot more than my knives. It's called maintenance and you don't let your tools get that bad. Inspect them, flush them out, use the proper lubricants, etc. Interesting topic as there have been recent threads on assisted openers jammed shut from grit lately. A closed sided cast handle with the only port facing down would seem to be a better protection.

It also goes to getting fired in the pocket. An OTF requires you depress the cocking button fully down it's travel before it's released. Once free it is propelled by spring pressure and it can barely penetrate paper. If it does not lock open, and there is a pocket in the way in most cases, the blade floats in the handle and can move up and down. A folder can open from gravity alone if it has a bad detent or travels about as far as the button on an OTF, and if it's assisted or auto, has spring pressure forcing it open to lock. It might not make it that far but the blade is usually at some angle to the handle and one end is fixed - it's not floating. I've had folders open in my pocket and I would prefer the OTF as it's less a problem overall.

OTF's have advantages and disadvantages, folders have advantages and disadvantages. It's much the same as piston or DI and you sort out which package of features works best for you. It doesn't mean that one is inferior to the other, both have a place. What we have is a national policy of bias blanketing our use which was originally unfounded and meant as a test bed for political activism. It worked so well we saw a repeat and it eventually resulted in the AWB. Logical analysis of use and actual experience shows a lot of the public myth and misinformation about OTF's relates to a complete lack of familiarity - just the same as the AR15 as a sporting rifle.

We are going to see more OTF's and more users, I'm keeping an open mind about them. A nice AUS8A single edge 3.5" long with G10 handles for $80would be a good working knife. Nobody makes it in the current climate but when they do things are going to rapidly change.
 
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My experience is this.

I bought a S&W HRT(?) OTF. It was in the $30-$40 range.

I bought this with the intention of it being used for a very specific non cutting task. (90+% of the time I used it as a probe)

I tried to EDC at 1st but ended up just using it weekly as a probe because it stunk as an EDC.

Why did stink as an EDC?...., mostly because it was, to my surprise, not easy to deploy and difficult to close with 1 hand.

To keep the deployment reliable, there was 10x or more care needed than a folder in order to keep it super clean and lightly lubed otherwise it wouldn't lock up when deployed. (A folded can get pretty dirty... where-as the OTF required me to inspected the thing looking for any lint etc.)

Other reasons that are probably more model specific is that it wasn't comfortable in my pocket (pokey angels/corners), or in my hand.

More reasons such as there is more slop in the blade than the other much cheaper knives I had (which was fine for a probe but as an EDC..?... not confidence inspiring at all.)


In the end, it served it's original intended purpose well enough that I didn't feel 'burned'.

If I had bought it for the purpose of EDC.... I'd have been dispointed.
 
You bought a $40 S&W OTF. Not your fault it was fated to be inferior.
 
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You bought a $40 S&W OTF. Not your fault it was fated to be inferior.


I pretty much knew it too. In fact, I asked about it here before I bought it.

I think it might of been you that replied with what I felt was honest input.... maybe not quite honest enough ;)


If I were to be blunt, I think its almost a hunk of junk and wouldn't recommend it. I have found better knives.

If I spent time on it smoothing the sliding areas etc it would probably be an OK junky knife worth about $25, IMO
 
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