Our worst enemy, ourselves?

[helpless]

Oleg, Why do you hate America?



Kidding of course.

You are so right. Everytime I hear a gun store guy/girl, range guy/girl, gun show guy/girl, talk like this, I get sick.

 

[beaucoup ammo]

The intensity of the on going debate makes it all the more important cool heads prevail. If just 1 of us loses it during a discussion, that casts other Pro RKBA's in the same light: irrational hot heads unable to state their case.

When I get to the boiling point with an anti, I either make myself calm down or change the subject.

Shadan7 is right on the money. Pigeon holing and false assumptions can make you look the fool. Not all Liberals are Anti's. Paint with too broad a brush and you totally defeat the purpose.

The argument is simple, IMO, you are either Pro or Anti gun. Drag politics in and you've hurt yourself by fighting two fronts. It dilutes your efforts. Political persuasion does not dictate someone's postion in This fight. To believe so puts you at a disadvantage.

 

[budney]

Shadan7, you're certainly welcome here--in fact, pro-RKBA liberals are doubly welcome, because they're as rare as hens' teeth.

I try not to bash liberals, but as an ex-right-winger it's easy to backslide. Being a libertarian during the War on Terror(tm) helps, because I take my share of bashing from "conservatives" calling me "liberaltarian." These days I'm equally fed up with righties and lefties.

On the subject of the thread, it would help if we worked harder to shake off our stereotype as a bunch of redneck republicans. Most everyone in every party supported RKBA at least until the 20th century. Exactly as you say, it ISN'T about Demublicans or Republicrats. It's about preserving a basic right.

--Len.

 

[ezypikns]

So THIS is where all the thoughtful people on The High Road are!

I've been reading some of the comments regarding the Virginia Tech shooting on some other threads and was a little heartsick. Nice to see there are many folks here who still think before engaging their mouths...or keyboards.

 

[cold dead hands]

If there has been one very true factor about the anti commie, negro, muslim, Democrat, gay and you name your ailment crowd it is this...

They hate you but they LOVE your money.
You are supposed to come in, buy what they say (verbally and physically) and go. No need to argue because most of them feel that you are not needed and neither are the people that you associate with.

I think a good protest on the sidewalk, corner, or wherever by the outcasts would be excellent for their buisness. Signs like,"Only racists, homophobes and religious biggots shop here" would do wonders for their image.

 

[Lurper]

The shooting community as a whole (including the NRA) is usually either too busy preaching to the choir or fighting with their enemies to pay attention to the people who really matter: the fence sitters. What reasonable person (pro or anti- gun, liberal or conservative) would look at said signs and not think the purveyors were not a bunch of backwoods, illiterate, in-bred, redneck, hick, Bubbas? That is how we lose the unconverted - by living up to the stereotypes of the anti-gun crowd. In spite of facts that show the opposite like gun owners being better educated, more enlightened, etc.. If you really want to make a difference, be well spoken, eloquent and calm. Talk to friends, coworkers and acquaintances who are neither pro or anti, educate them about guns (with facts, not rhetoric). Offer to take them shooting. Tell them how theraputic shooting is: when you shoot, you have to concentrate on what you are doing. So it is very easy to leave the rest of the world behind for the amount of time you are on the range. Sort of "shooting therapy". Take them to a real range, not out in the woods. A place that is professional, personable and friendly. Don't take them to "Bubba's Gun Emporium" unless you want to make them think all gun owners are Bubbas. If every one of us would just show one person the road to enlightenment, we wouldn't be constantly battling the oppostion.

 

[junyo]

I've said it before, and I'll undoubtably have to say it again: being pro-RKBA isn't about being a Dem, a Repub, a Libertarian, or whatever - it's about being pro-RKBA.

It's about being free.

 

[Eleven Mike]

I think a good protest on the sidewalk, corner, or wherever by the outcasts would be excellent for their buisness. Signs like,"Only racists, homophobes and religious biggots shop here" would do wonders for their image.

Actually, that would just do more damage to the RKBA, unless it was extremely well-done. "Protesters picket racist gun store." An ugly headline.

Yet I show up here, and the first thing I see on the queue is a thread about how all 'liberals' are evil. Thanks, guys, makes me really feel at home here with the other gunnies.

You know what? I don't like getting the same kind of grief from Libertarians around here. And us "homophobes" get hassled, too. And us Christians, and so on. And the Christians rail against secularism. And drug-warrior types get accosted by the legalization crowd. Deal with it.

 

[cold dead hands]

Actually I think that "protesters picket racist gun store" headlines would be wonderful. Those of the non caucasion, non straight, non racist, non hateful, non "you pick what they hate" types would know definately where they are not welcome and any other gunshop that provides equal treatment to all would see a large boom in their buisness as the bigot store goes out of buisness. That is provided that they do not have a large quantity of customers that like the way they think, but any serious loss of buisness hurts.

What if the owner had to let one or two bigots (employees) go because he could no longer pay them. Where you see damage, I see sucess.

 

[coelacanth]

just a thought...

has anyone actually spoken to the offending party re: the signage? maybe another point of view is all it would take to get a conversation going that might result in the questionable material being relegated to the back room.

 

[Oleg Volk]

Yes. They told me to fk off

 

[Eleven Mike]

cold dead hands,

You're cold dead wrong. Most "non caucasion, non straight, non racist, non hateful" people aren't customers of any gun store. If they are, they probably already know which store serves them best, anyway. They certainly are just as likely to see offensive signs.

Most likely, such picketing will appear to be an indictment of the gun community by non-gunnies. We're already perceived as being bigots. Drawing undue attention to racism in our ranks will further that. You may as well enlarge the sign in the window, photograph it, and publish it in the newspaper so everyone can see that gun people hate Muslims and Mexicans.

I'm not saying we shouldn't address the issue, we'll just have to do so a lot more carefully than what you're talking about. For instance, we can raise the issue on gun fora, as Oleg did, and through gun organizations and with friends. And we can try to reason with the bigots as Oleg tried to do.

 

[cold dead hands]

elevenmike... how come you do not see my point as to the fact that maybe some folks would ask why gun owners would refuse to do buisness with hateful people of said gunshops. Maybe we need a little push for the fence sitters into our side by making them see that gun owners are not always bigots. In fact some might be able to identify with gun owners and decide that they would like to be gun owners as well. Think of it as positive peer influence.

Oleg...it is a real shame that they very reason you do the things you do are actually helping to keep that kind of group going as well. What I mean is that RKBA is for all people regardless of the fact that they hate you for no good reason at all. Shame be on them and there houses. You are good man who has a good cause and unfortunately some are using your help to spit on you. It is this kind of human vermin that boils my blood.

 

[Groovski]

I've said it before, and I'll undoubtably have to say it again: being pro-RKBA isn't about being a Dem, a Repub, a Libertarian, or whatever - it's about being pro-RKBA.

It's about being free.

RKBA results in the freedom to be Dem, Repub, Libertarian, whatever.

 

[Thain]

IMHO, a lot of these ignorant tpyes are acting out of pure ignorance. They've never met a muslem, a sikh, a homosexual, or whatever [insert here] they are afraid of...

The best cure for a sickness is often a massive dose of anti-biotics. I see my "anti boycott" as just that... Shock treatment cultural immerison!

In a slightly more realistic mode, perhaps we could start a sort of Angie's List of gun shops?

 

[Eleven Mike]

elevenmike... how come you do not see my point as to the fact that maybe some folks would ask why gun owners would refuse to do buisness with hateful people of said gunshops. Maybe we need a little push for the fence sitters into our side by making them see that gun owners are not always bigots. In fact some might be able to identify with gun owners and decide that they would like to be gun owners as well. Think of it as positive peer influence.

I see your point, I just don't think it's realistic. Suppose John and Jane Fence-sitter are motoring along when they happen upon your demonstration. They see a diverse group of people holding signs that say "Only racists, homophobes and religious bigots shop here." They notice that the store in question is a gun store. It seems to me the conclusion most people will draw, based on the stereotypes they are fed, is that the protest is against the gun community, not within it. How do they know that the protestors are gun owners? More to the point, how do they know the protestors favor gun rights? The more "diverse" your protestors, the more likely it is that people will assume they are anti-gun.

I think it could be done in a way that people understand, but I'm not sure how. The signs would have to be written as "NRA members against bigotry," or something of the sort. Even so, the media will spin this event as a protest against the extremism of those crazy gun owners or as a call for gun control.

 

[kahr404life]

Oleg,
You hit the nail on the head.