P-3AT vs. J-frame ?

[Mulliga]

For me, the pocket handgun race has seemingly narrowed down to two choices, the Kel-tec P-3AT and the S&W 642 snubbie. My requirements are: current production, at least .380/.38 caliber, $400 or under new, ~15 ounces or under unloaded. (P-11 is out because my friend has one and I hate the trigger ).

P-3AT: significantly cheaper, lighter, smaller, 6+1 capacity

J-frame: more reliable (seems more than one P-3AT needed attention before it was ready to be used for defense), can use heavier bullets, novelty (I've never owned a revolver)

The gunshow is Sunday. Convince me one way or the other!

 

[RyanM]

If you hate the P11 trigger, I don't see how you could feel any different about a P3AT trigger. Personally, I'd say to go with a Kahr MK9, but between those two, I think the J-frame comes out on top.

 

[Boats]

Not current production but a Colt Agent or Cobra fills the bill as a true six-gun.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

If you really intend to carry in a pocket, then the P3AT is by far easier to carry that way. If you wear your pants baggy like a rapper you can probably conceal a j frame just fine in a pocket. But if your pants are relatively well tailored, I think you will find the Kel Tec is less likely to show.

 

[SnubbyMan]

If it were my choice, I would go with the J-frame. The 15 oz. 642 carries easily. In fact, I don't think it would be difficult to carry two.

 

[M2 Carbine]

P-3AT vs. J-frame ?
---------------------

I've got them both but carry the Kel Tec.
I dress for comfort, not carry, but if I could carry the J frame I would, rather than the 380.

 

[Fred Fuller]

There are two first generation hardchrome P3ATs in our family. Both have been 100 percent reliable out of the box with a variety of ammunition over several hundred rounds. There is nothing else out there offering this level of power in such a lightweight, flat, easy to conceal package.

Granted, none of this comes without the penalties imposed by the laws of physics. These little guns are not easy to shoot. And a lot of .38 SPL ammo and revolvers can deliver a heavier bullet than any .380 and might well do it at higher muzzle velocities too. I am not prepared to argue those issues.

BUT a P3AT is much more likely to be along with you if something happens that requires fast access to a concealed weapon, simply because it is such a nonissue to carry. I carry mine in a Hedley pocket holster, my wife carries hers in the factory rug. They are excellent pistols for what they do. They are not plinkers, are not fun to shoot, are hard on brass. They demand to be kept clean and properly lubricated, fed ammunition they like, and may take some extra work and attention on the shooter's part to get good reliability. They are after all tiny, lightweight pistols firing a relatively powerful round and are running on the edge of the envelope. It just doesn't take a lot to make something go wrong when this is the case. Problems can be minimized with proper cleaning and lubrication, a firm firing grip and good ammunition. I am willing to accept that in order to have a pistol along any place it is legal to carry.

lpl/nc

 

[A Cleaner]

P3at

I say this because the only useful guns to me are the ones that I have with me and the P3AT just makes me wanna carry it. It is a sweetheart to carry and a darling to conceal. I carry ankle, SOB, or pocket and it NEVER prints (5'11", 180). At its widest point, its just over .75 inches. Can't say that about a J-Frame. No pants one size bigger, no big floppy shirts and undershirts and overshirts to conceal it. I can even lean forward at the waist while carrying SOB and it won't print (Unkle Mike's, size 10).

While I agree with Lee on the issue of caliber, I cannot stress enough how easy it is to take this gun along. A smaller caliber gun carried always is, IMHO, better than a larger caliber gun carried most of the time. If you are certain that you will always be inclined to carry a J-frame, more power to ya'. I wouldn't so my choice is the P3AT.

P.S. No jams, no FTF's, no smileys, just a little snappy on the recoil. Good luck with your decision either way.

 

[MR.G]

When I carry my P-3AT I often forget it is in my pocket. Very light and thin. My S&W J frames are quite a bit heavier than the P-3AT, and harder to conceal. Both will work for front pocket carry. The J frame is more comparable to the Kel-Tec P-11 than the P-3AT. About the same size and weight, unloaded. The grip of the P-11 does print more than the J frame in the front pocket, but it also carries over twice as many rounds.

 

[Jiml3]

Of the two, the J frame! I would not trust my life to a kel tec. Another choice and far better, is a used Kahr PM 9. You should be able to pick it up for about $450.00 USED. It's worth every penny especially where your life is concerned.
It also meets your requirements. Less than an inch thick, weighs 15 oz., uses a much better round (9mm.) and is very reliable. If you choose it, you won't regret it. You just have to get use to shooting a double action gun but even that is not a problem, it has one of the smoothest d/a triggers!

Good Luck

 

[Old Dog]

J-frame. I've had two Kel-Tecs. I want something that I know will go bang and not malfunction. Size of the J-frame is not a concern.

 

[cookekdjr]

I want something that I know will go bang and not malfunction.
Gotta go with the J-frame. You can get a new/lightly used J-frame that weighs 15 oz for $300. It will go bang every time, and fits neatly in a pocket holster. I couldn't decide between the S&W and Taurus, bought a Titanium Taurus b/c a paticular one left the factory with the best trigger EVER (I dry fired about a dozen Taurus and S&W's before I chose my Taurus). Otherwise, I would have gotten the Smith.
Regardless, a lightweight revolver will go bang every time but is light enough to carry every day.
-David

 

[P. Plainsman]

J-frame. Dead reliable, more powerful (158 gr LSWCHP +P, 'nuff said), perfectly amenable to low-key pocket carry with a decent holster. Also, while snubby revolvers are somewhat hard to shoot accurately, I've tried a P3AT, and that gun was hard to shoot accurately. I admit I'm a revolver guy.

If you wear your pants baggy like a rapper you can probably conceal a j frame just fine in a pocket. But if your pants are relatively well tailored, I think you will find the Kel Tec is less likely to show.

I'm a man of average size and weight who wears tailored slacks every day. With a good pocket holster to smooth the lines (I like DeSantis Nemesis) a J-frame is no sweat for front pocket carry. Will a bystander notice that you have something in your pocket? Probably, but only if he bothers to look for that specifically, which most people don't -- and if he does, so what? Most of us ordinarily have things in our pockets. Think of how big some people's car keys/key rings are!

It doesn't say "gun." The alloy J-frames are nice and light (15 oz empty), so they don't sag down the pocket in a suspicious fashion.

Mind you, I have also pocket-carried a 3" SP101 in the DeSantis, and yes, that gun is much more conspicuous than a small auto like the Kel-Tec would be. The pocket sags a lot, and something like a frame outline is arguably discernible. An interested observer could "make" you pretty easily.

But an 2" Airweight J is a whole 'nother story. Unless you are in a "super-deep concealment" situation where you must avoid even the slightest hint that you might have something in there, J-frame pocket carry is easy and inobtrusive. Given my circumstances, I am selecting a 642 for pocket carry in preference to a small auto without hestiation.

 

[pinetree64]

I own a Keltec P32 and a Taurus M85 UL. The P32 is lighter and easier to carry, but the trigger is horrible and the parts are weak. They do have a cult like following and awesome customer service. This time of year I often wear gym shorts and the P32 with the belt clip rides easily. I mostly carry the J fame (IWB holster) when I'm headed outdoors, 4 wheeling, hunting, working at the hunt club, etc. I like the ability to shoot +P hydra shocks and snake shot without feeding issues.

The Keltec was $179. Was 100% until an important part broke. I really like this little gun, but my trust is tarnished. It was fun stripping it down to all its parts and fixing it, but not a good thing a PD gun.

tjg

 

[larry starling]

There are better choices out there. I voted for somthing better.. My CCW weapon is a custom Colt officers model.....

 

[Wilson 17&26]

For $450 you could buy two P-3ATs and the weight of both would still be close to your 15oz limit plus give you 14 rounds

Last March I picked up two used hard chrome P-3ATs for less than $300. One took about 2 hours to get 100%. The other required less than an hour before it reached perfection. But if you have a tendency to limpwrist, go for the revolver.

(click to enlarge)

 

[denfoote]

You left a choice off of the poll!!!

BOTH!!!

 

[MDG1976]

The only real advantage the Kel-Tec has is concealability. The J-frame wins hands down in every other catagory.

 

[Pointblank]

Not only does the J-frame give you "Five For Sure", but it's a lot faster into action. You can carry any kind of ammo and not worry about functioning. Speed loaders and speed strips compliment it well.

 

[P. Plainsman]

I might add that while I think the tried-and-true Airweight .38 is the way to go for most folks, the P3AT is still an interesting and impressive machine. As stated by a poster above, it's a "tiny, lightweight pistol firing a relatively powerful round and [is] running on the edge of the envelope."

Innovative American gun design should be recognized and respected, even if one's own needs are best met by a different piece of hardware.

 

[orionengnr]

scandium j-frame

comparing a .357 to a .380 is like comparing a bamboo cane to a sledge hammer. Don't necessarily want to get hit with either, but if you're going to hit someone else with one...

 

[Preacherman]

I've owned two P3-AT's and three P32's, and was never able to get even one of them to fire 200 rounds without a stoppage of some kind. Since that 200-round malfunction-free test is a time-honored and trusted way of sorting out a reliable defensive weapon from an unreliable toy, guess what? I carry J-frames!

 

[355sigfan]

I have tried the various pocket autos, (Beretta Tomcat, Naa Guardian, Colt Pony) all are less than reliable and the 380 and 32 are not in the same class as the J frame with +p 38 ammo. The J frame is easy to conceal in a pocket so long as its an airweight. For pocket guns revolvers rule. For belt holster guns give me an auto.
Pat

 

[DAVE RICHARDS]

I have both a P-3AT and a S&W 642. To me each has it's place. First off I consider them both BUGS. Given the choice I would not carry either as my primary weapon. In cooler weather I usually carry a full sized gun with the 642 as BUG. As the weather gets warmer I go down to a 9mm, .40 or .45 compact with the P-3AT as BUG.
That being said the P-3AT can be carried and concealed when dress and occasion will allow for nothing larger. It's my "got a gun when you can't for whatever reason carry a bigger gun gun". It's puny yes. But 7 rounds of .380 fired rapidly into the chest and head of a bad guy will give me (if he doesn't go down) time to kick him, stick him (with a good knife, and get the hell away. Niche weapons both. But if you can wear a j-frame by all means do. The new 135 gr. Gold Dots, Cor Bon DPX, or even a good SWC from a .38 almost always trumps a .380.

 

[MachIVshooter]

IMO, the only wheelguns that are suitable for pocket carry are the NAA mini's (unless we're talking coat pockets). I simply find the j-frames or any other 5-shot too wide. I voted P3 for pocket gun becasue it is so light and slim, but still has a sizeable punch. At 8 ounces and well under 1" thick, you barely notice them. Mine has had acceptable reliability (3 jams in ~250 rds.).
Of course, a J-frame is going to have 0 failures in 250 rounds unless you have defective ammo or a defective gun. My experience has been that revolver failures are not intermittent. Once they break, they tend to stay broken.