P-3AT vs. J-frame ?
- Thread starter Mulliga
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+1 Kahr PM9 as posted by Lutz40
I couldn't hit $h!* with my 340pd, with 38, 38 +p or 357. Sold it! I did not have faith I could the intended target consistently. I do not have that problem with my PM9. I can do 100 - 150 rounds of practice with no SHS (Sore Hand Syndrome
). Highly concealable behind the hip in an IWB. Mine weighs 15.2 oz, has always been 100% reliable, and after ~1000 rounds, I am confident in my CC with it.
I couldn't hit $h!* with my 340pd, with 38, 38 +p or 357. Sold it! I did not have faith I could the intended target consistently. I do not have that problem with my PM9. I can do 100 - 150 rounds of practice with no SHS (Sore Hand Syndrome
). Highly concealable behind the hip in an IWB. Mine weighs 15.2 oz, has always been 100% reliable, and after ~1000 rounds, I am confident in my CC with it.
DAdams
Member
"My ideal pocket gun would be a Kel-Tec that maybe cost two or three times as much and maybe weighed a little bit more, but was made with the finest precision parts."
That would be a Rohrbaugh.
If money were no object, ($1000 and a waiting list) Rohrbaugh is on my CC short list. Rohrbaugh R9 9mm. Better oomph than the P3At in .380 and weighs in about the same as M&P340 J Frame about 13 ounces. 6+1 rounds.
Compares to the, I don't know you pick it, the Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes of carry autos.
I currently have these in my carry lineup.
Kahr PM9
S&W 642-2
S&W M&P340
Dress, social event etc dictates which one(s) I carry.
I wouldn't mind a P3AT but .380 is a bit on the light side. I have a BERSA .380 to cover that base. A genuine value but too heavy for the pocket.
The P3 are as said, hit and miss on quality. At around $295 I guess a trip or two to the factory to get it right would work. Maybe even a $100 F&B.
Story- I was at one of the LGS yesterday and the owner/operator told the story of a handgun magazine writer of some fame who carried the P3 AT all the time. Even put it in his swim suit and wore it while swimming. True story.
Here is evidence that you can get decent with a J Frame. I have only put maybe 350 rounds through the 642, this was the last trip to the range. 7 yards. One 5 round set with the CT on. One five round set with them off.
Today while I was out and about it was the 642 in a Mika Pocket Holster in a pair of shorts. 110 gr DPX COR BON.
That would be a Rohrbaugh.
If money were no object, ($1000 and a waiting list) Rohrbaugh is on my CC short list. Rohrbaugh R9 9mm. Better oomph than the P3At in .380 and weighs in about the same as M&P340 J Frame about 13 ounces. 6+1 rounds.
Compares to the, I don't know you pick it, the Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes of carry autos.
I currently have these in my carry lineup.
Kahr PM9
S&W 642-2
S&W M&P340
Dress, social event etc dictates which one(s) I carry.
I wouldn't mind a P3AT but .380 is a bit on the light side. I have a BERSA .380 to cover that base. A genuine value but too heavy for the pocket.
The P3 are as said, hit and miss on quality. At around $295 I guess a trip or two to the factory to get it right would work. Maybe even a $100 F&B.
Story- I was at one of the LGS yesterday and the owner/operator told the story of a handgun magazine writer of some fame who carried the P3 AT all the time. Even put it in his swim suit and wore it while swimming.
True story.Here is evidence that you can get decent with a J Frame. I have only put maybe 350 rounds through the 642, this was the last trip to the range. 7 yards. One 5 round set with the CT on. One five round set with them off.
Today while I was out and about it was the 642 in a Mika Pocket Holster in a pair of shorts. 110 gr DPX COR BON.
glockman19
Member
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- 3,700
I trust my life to the J-frame both a 442 and 642.
DawgFvr
Member
I actually learned how to aim/shoot the 642 when I put the LG-105 Crimson Trace laser grip on it. Now...I'm a pretty good shot with it. I carry the 642 in a Mika pocket holster...very easy to present...when I have the right clothing for it. When wearing tight jeans, Suit/Tux, etc., I do carry the P3AT...just because it is so comfortable. Reliability is always an issue in an auto...that is why you must clean/oil/grease the "carried" auto each and ever week whether it has been fired or not. Rotate ammo frequently...inspect each and every round...always!
03Shadowbob
Member
I like both and both have their respective places. I once sold a Taurus M85SS and while I miss it for sentimental value, I don't miss it for it's usefulness. If you add the +1 extension on the P3AT you have 7+1. Mine has been 100% reliable and after about 250 rounds I am getting 3-4" groups at 7 yards. It's plenty accurate for me. I'll take 8 .380s over 5 .38s anyday.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
S&W J-frame
The Amigo
Member
And Round count 8 vs 5
And Price $$
I have a p3 that and had 0 issues. I have a snubby taurus ultralight and it still feels like im carrying a block in my pocket compared to the ket tec.
Kel Tec goes with me everywhere and has gone places where ordinarily guns are not allowed hence its concealability is top notch.
Definitely a R9
DAdams, you got the right combo with the Rohrbaugh. I have one of the early ones, and just love it. Fine piece of craftsmanship, and small enough that it is my "everywhere-everytime" gun (either as primary in summer or deep concealment, or BUG for other applications). Gotta hold tight to it, it is so small, but 9mm GDHP rocks as a defensive round at close quarters. Save your pennies, go for the gold standard.
7
DAdams, you got the right combo with the Rohrbaugh. I have one of the early ones, and just love it. Fine piece of craftsmanship, and small enough that it is my "everywhere-everytime" gun (either as primary in summer or deep concealment, or BUG for other applications). Gotta hold tight to it, it is so small, but 9mm GDHP rocks as a defensive round at close quarters. Save your pennies, go for the gold standard.
7
MeekandMild
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- 1,877
I voted for the P3AT. Have you ever tried to carry a revolver in your pocket all day in the sun? That little cylinder will literally tear a hole in your leg, which is why they invented belt clips for holsters.
Ditto MachIVshooter. I've never had problems with my P3AT, and it carries so easily that I take it when a small revolver would get left at home. Unless you are buck naked, you can conceal it easily.
Neither cartridge is a reliable stopper, so five rounds vs. seven with a fast 6 more gives a definite advantage to the .380.
Neither cartridge is a reliable stopper, so five rounds vs. seven with a fast 6 more gives a definite advantage to the .380.
One man's food is another man's poison so take this with a grain of salt.
As I will never own another Kel-Tec, the choice is very clear to me. Go with a truly reliable wheelgun like the 642 and live with the extra size. Carrying a gun is about self-defense and reliability when you need it most, not making allowances for a gun's size and coming up with workarounds. If you simply MUST have something small in .380 then buy the heavier NAA Guardian or look at the larger Bersa Concealed Carry. Both of those autos are sturdier and far more reliable and much less particular than a Kel-Tec IMO.
Kel-Tec sells a ton of guns and many of the owners dutifully work on them to address the factory's shortcomings and contrive ways to make the guns more reliable. I had enough of fooling around with homemade repairs to keep mine working while I had it.
As I will never own another Kel-Tec, the choice is very clear to me. Go with a truly reliable wheelgun like the 642 and live with the extra size. Carrying a gun is about self-defense and reliability when you need it most, not making allowances for a gun's size and coming up with workarounds. If you simply MUST have something small in .380 then buy the heavier NAA Guardian or look at the larger Bersa Concealed Carry. Both of those autos are sturdier and far more reliable and much less particular than a Kel-Tec IMO.
Kel-Tec sells a ton of guns and many of the owners dutifully work on them to address the factory's shortcomings and contrive ways to make the guns more reliable. I had enough of fooling around with homemade repairs to keep mine working while I had it.
Green Lantern
Member
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- Aug 16, 2006
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- 1,665
Never shot a P11 so don't know how the triggers compare.
Newer P3ATs are VERY reliable. And VERY VERY "discreet."
Have you 'tried' pocket carrying the J-frame? I haven't, but a Bersa Thunder .380 (PPK clone in effect) is marketed as a "POCKET pistol" but for me does not work very good as such.
Newer P3ATs are VERY reliable. And VERY VERY "discreet."
Have you 'tried' pocket carrying the J-frame? I haven't, but a Bersa Thunder .380 (PPK clone in effect) is marketed as a "POCKET pistol" but for me does not work very good as such.
just for fun
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Have you ever noticed that people who carry autos will tell you how many rounds they fired since thier last JAM ? Well, I'd like to do the same for my model 36, since 1968 and several thousand rounds, NOT ONE. nuf said!
DAdams
Member
This is what keeps me away. Seems like it either takes multiple trips to KelTec to get them right and or they are a tinkers dream. Always being fiddled with. I'm sure there may be 50% that are good to go right out of the box, but at 50/50 I'm not messing with them. Besides, .32 and .380. marginal at best.
I have the PM 9 it's my FL winter carry and primary with 642 BU when I go to Miami. I would like to have the Rohrbaugh, at 9mm I would have the patience to get that right if there were issues. I might even sell the PM9 if I got the Rohrbaugh at 100%.
The BERSA BERSA BT 380 and CC version are not that bad size wise, just to heavy at 24 oz. and again, .380.
I just got one of these for CC. The ultimate snub nose.
Added the Hogues as an experiment. It came with 405 CTs.
In a DeSantis
In a Mika.
JohnBT
Member
You left a choice off of the poll!!!
-----------------------------------------
BOTH!!!
__________
I have a reliable P-32 and a 442 and have carried both at the same time. I voted P-3AT purely on size.
Now I have a Rohrbaugh 9s that's almost as small as the Kel-Tecs, and weighs almost as much as the 442, but holds more rounds. As soon as my leather holster gets made I can ditch the bulky Uncle Mikes. It works, but it's not slim by any stretch of the imagination.
John
-----------------------------------------
BOTH!!!
__________
I have a reliable P-32 and a 442 and have carried both at the same time. I voted P-3AT purely on size.
Now I have a Rohrbaugh 9s that's almost as small as the Kel-Tecs, and weighs almost as much as the 442, but holds more rounds. As soon as my leather holster gets made I can ditch the bulky Uncle Mikes. It works, but it's not slim by any stretch of the imagination.
John
DAdams
Member
Have you put many rounds through the Rohrbaugh? How do you like it?
Good out ouf the box? What ammunition you using?
Anything it didn't like?
JohnBT
Member
Not too many rounds yet, since I've had no time between 4 long workdays every week and then 3 days on the road prepping my parents' house for sale and visiting them at the assisted living facility. It's an early model (6xx) I bought used - very lightly used. I haven't even ordered a new recoil spring or the new improved mag springs or anything, just the holster.
One of these days, maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll resume regularly range trips. That's if I don't decide I need to start painting my house before the neighbors stop talking to me. I was going Sunday, but had to tear the lawnmower apart to get it to run and then it was too late.
Just what I need, another project gun.
John
One of these days, maybe, if I'm lucky, I'll resume regularly range trips. That's if I don't decide I need to start painting my house before the neighbors stop talking to me.
I was going Sunday, but had to tear the lawnmower apart to get it to run and then it was too late.Just what I need, another project gun.
John
I used to think revolvers were too large too until I started carrying the j-frame. The scandium version just dissappears, and is so light, and doesn't seem to print at all in a pocket. Just looks like you are carrying your keys or a cellphone. And it is RELIABLE!
I had the Bersa CC and it was a sweet little gun, but had reliability issues from day one - dealer bought it back for full price.
That said, I've had .357 bullets jump crimp in the j-frame scandiums and cause lockups. I've switched ammo and that problem is gone.
I had the Bersa CC and it was a sweet little gun, but had reliability issues from day one - dealer bought it back for full price.
That said, I've had .357 bullets jump crimp in the j-frame scandiums and cause lockups. I've switched ammo and that problem is gone.
denfoote
Member
The j-frame revolver is hard to learn how to shoot.
Just keep practicing and you will get better!!!
Just keep practicing and you will get better!!!
twinhairdryers
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- Feb 7, 2006
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- 147
All depends on your latitude. If you live in the south in
a warm climate, you will find you can carry a Kel-tec in a pair of light swimming trunks, which guarantees you can carry every day no matter what. If you live in a cooler climate go for the reliability of the j-frame. all comes down to which one you will always have on you. I generally forget i'm even carrying the p3-at it is so small and light, seems like a cell phone.
a warm climate, you will find you can carry a Kel-tec in a pair of light swimming trunks, which guarantees you can carry every day no matter what. If you live in a cooler climate go for the reliability of the j-frame. all comes down to which one you will always have on you. I generally forget i'm even carrying the p3-at it is so small and light, seems like a cell phone.
sitrep
Member
How about the Sig P232?
DawgFvr
Member
I love my 642 with the Crimson LG-105 laser grip...but got to tell you...it is a huge anchor compared with the tiny/light P3AT. Yup, you can actually conceal the Kel Tec in a pair of swim trunks. Buy both...carry in specific/different situations.
JohnBT
Member
"Have you put many rounds through the Rohrbaugh? How do you like it?"
Took it out Monday afternoon and shot 50 rounds of WWB and 50 of S&B ball through it. I was grinning after the first 2 shots and limpwristed shot #3 and it failed to completely chamber the next round. Other than that it was perfect. Great trigger and decent accuracy considering I was shooting at 25 yards.
I really expected the recoil to be an unholy handful, but it was tolerable. (How do you shoot a Rohrbaugh? Pull the trigger and hang on.)
I had the third box of ammo out, but after firing one hollowpoint I decided that I'd had enough and got out my BHP. The trigger guard skinned a tiny spot on my finger, but it wasn't bleeding.
I'm very happy, I think I'll order some recoil springs and a couple more mags and keep it.
John
Took it out Monday afternoon and shot 50 rounds of WWB and 50 of S&B ball through it. I was grinning after the first 2 shots and limpwristed shot #3 and it failed to completely chamber the next round. Other than that it was perfect. Great trigger and decent accuracy considering I was shooting at 25 yards.
I really expected the recoil to be an unholy handful, but it was tolerable. (How do you shoot a Rohrbaugh? Pull the trigger and hang on.)
I had the third box of ammo out, but after firing one hollowpoint I decided that I'd had enough and got out my BHP. The trigger guard skinned a tiny spot on my finger, but it wasn't bleeding.
I'm very happy, I think I'll order some recoil springs and a couple more mags and keep it.
John
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