P-9 covert problems

[flip180]

And, I mean problems:banghead: . I haven't had a gun jam on me like this since my long gone PA-63. I took my P-9 Covert out to the range today for the first time and had approx. 23 FTE's in 200 rds. It was the classic empty case hanging horizontaly up on the chamber hood while the gun tried to feed the next round. I was using Fiocchi 115 gr. FMJ though out the range session. I'm not convinced that it is an ammo issue yet since, fiocchi is pretty rebutable as being a good round for range use. I wouldn't suspect the extractor as readily as I would if it was a 1911 due to it having an external extractor. I'm thinking more along the lines of the recoil spring. It doesn't seem that the slide is moving back far/fast enough to eject the empty casing without the next feeding round moving up and pushing it out of the way of the ejector. I can't find any parts binding in the gun that could contribute to this kind of malfunction. I have a question for those of you that have a P-9. How many coils are in your "stock" recoil springs. I figure that that is the best place to start.

Thanks, Robert.

 

[Preacherman]

You have PM.

 

[flip180]

This gun just became a 425.00 paper weight

Well, I just got back from the range today and left after shooting 75 rds out of the 200 I brought with me. I tried everything. I used both mags, different ammo, put the stock guide rod back in and tightened the hell out of my grip. I stopped counting the FTE's after eight. I'm calling Karh, I'm going to clean the gun and I'm going to go to the gun shop and trade it in for a G-26. I'll just have to eat the differance for the the trade in. I should have listened to Mr. Camp's write-up on the G-26 and bought one instead. I'm not knoking Karh in general. I think that this gun is a lemon that somehow made it's way out of the factory and into my hands.

Robert.

 

[dwkennedy]

The gun does come with a warranty, unless you bought it used. Why don't you send it to Kahr for a free fix? Even if you decide to sell it later it'll be worth more fixed than in its present condition.

Mine ran 100% for the first 200 'break-in' rounds and has performed well since. I have used winchester white box 115 gr. and federal hydra-shock 115 and 147 gr. I think I ran some speer gold-dot 124 gr. too. I have had 1 misfeed using win. white box, while I was deliberately limp wristing the gun just to see what it would do. Otherwise it's been a good performer.

I have read of occasional problems with new Kahrs (and Glocks) but Kahr does seem to iron them out. The very busy gun shop I frequent said the PT-111 went back for service a lot more frequently than the kahr. They also thought the glocks and the kahrs had a similar service record. I was originally thinking of buying a little glock, but chose the kahr due to the thin profile.

 

[flip180]

I bought it used from Preacherman. I don't think the waranty is valid woth me buying it used. BTW, I just got back from the gun shop and, they only offered me 275.00 for a trade in. I guess I'm stuck with it for a while.

Robert.

 

[TooTaxed]

Check with Kahr anyway...you have nothing to lose, and they just might do something for you! (Ruger is pretty good at that sort of thing...)

 

[joell33]

Mine too

I got rid of a Kahr in dec. that did the exact same thing. Mine was a p9 covert as well. Kahr said to send it in, but I sold it(with notification of the problems) and went back to a glock 26. this is my secong glock 26 first was a factory rebuild, and this one was nib. No malfunctions with either one I should have never sold the first one to begin with. i sold it to purchase the kahr, that will never happen again. Sorry about your problems but I would muster up the difference and get the glock. How much is your life worth if the Kahrs fails you? I considered mine a $100.oo lesson on reliability.

 

[flip180]

What did KAHR say what could be wrong with your P-9 Covert. I've done alot of searching and found that the recoil and/or extractor spring may be the culprit. I've orderd both and if that doesn't help then it is gone. It will cost me 200.00+tax for a trade in for a new G-26 which, doesn't seem too bad considering how poorly this gun has performed. I went though this sort of thing with my Kimber and don't want to go through it again with spending alot of money to diagnose problems with a gun. I can't in good conscence sell this gun to an iduvidual with the problems it has now. It is supposed to be a defensive firearm not a range gun. Righ now, it can't do either very good.

Robert.

 

[joell33]

They

just kept telling me to fire a few more rnds through it. I did and it kept screwing up. So finally a guy from their service dept. said it was probably the extrator. I told him I was selling it and the new owner could send it in. they said okay. By the way I also sold a Kimber Ultra carry because of its problems(again with notification to buyer). Their cust. service was about the most unhelpful and rude people I have ever done buisness with. Needless to say I'm done with Kimbers and Kahrs unless they are free, Otherwise I work too hard for my money to be the a firearms factory new gun test personnel. Glock from now on it is( atleast thats my plan for the next few days). I will not buy another Kahr or Kimber though. Both guns were over $600.00 new and neither functioned like my $475.00 glock. Sorry if this doesn't help.

 

[flip180]

joell, That helped me alot

That means I'm thinking along the right track on what's wrong with the pistol although, I don't feel as strongly against the pistol as you do. I too had a troublesome Kimber that I sold off. Parts are cheap on the Kahr's web-site so getting them and replacing them myself shouldn't be too much of a problem. My Kimber had extraction problems similar to this and it was due to a loosley tensioned/poorly fitted extractor. I don't feel that the kahr's extractor is poorly fitted but, I think that the spring's tension may be on the loose side. I also had a Makarov that had too heavy of a recoil spring installed prior to me buying it that also malfunctioned in a similar way also. I really don't know how many rounds have been put though the gun prior to be buying it so, it wouldn be wise to replace the recoil spring just for GP. This gun has everything I'm looking for except reliability. I'm hopping the fix is something as simple as replacing a couple of springs. It isn't under warranty so, doing the work myself doesn't bother me. It will take alot of rounds to trust this gun once everything in ironed out. I'll probably still carry the J-frame with me until I'm 100% sure it will work when I'll need it most.

Robert.

 

[cratz2]

Just to throw this in, I bought a P9 Covert from a member here and put between 800 and 900 totally flawless rounds through it... Various ball ammo, many 124 Gr +P Gold Dots and a few various HPs. Zero failures of any kind.

I think that Kahr makes a very solid product... though I wouldn't buy a new size gun as soon as it hit's the shelf. I agree with the others that have said call them up, tell them what's up and see if they'll make it right. I'd mention that you are on a couple of the largest internet forums as well.

A good company will stand behind their product even if you aren't the first buyer. If this is your only carry gun right now, I can see the desire to get something reliable ASAP but barring that, I'd really try to get it fixed before selling or trading. I was offered $400 to sell mine outright to a gunshop - not a trade though it did have Trijicon nightsights.

This is all discounting antthing Preacherman might have said in his PM.

 

[dwestfall]

Glock from now on it is( at least thats my plan for the next few days).

LOL I can relate to that, especially the last part.

 

[denfoote]

KAHR

My MK9 is in the same boat.
I think it needs a new recoil spring assembly, but I can't find one in town anywhere. e-mails to Kahr have gone unanswered. My problem is I must be the only person left in the world that does not use plastic!! The parts ordering feature on the Kahr web site wants my card number!! No can do!!

 

[flip180]

Kahr has been kinda hard to get a hold of these past two days. I've left messages to call me back but non yet. I'll take my chances with the two new springs before I consider sending it in for repair. Preacherman is standing behind this pistol so, that helps. I just wished I didn't have to deal with these issues in the first place.

BTW. can any body give me good instructions on how to remove the extractor spring on a P-9.

Thanks, Robert

 

[SteelyDan]

flip, I'm sorry about the gun, but there's something I've got to say, since you bought it from a forum member here. Let's say you bought the gun from me, and there was a problem. By all means, feel free to ask the question about how to perform the fix, but give me a chance to make it right before you identify me as the seller. Just because it would be kind of embarassing. Now, if I don't treat you right, then I'm fair game and you should be free to identify me. But unless and until that happens, it just doesn't sit right with me for you to name the seller. My two cents.

 

[denfoote]

Mine's now a safe queen.
I'm carrying a J-frame Taurus.

 

[Waxed Canvas]

Sorry fellas. I learned about Kahr early on with one that choked, i mean just fell apart after 50 rounds of factory ammo. Mag release, extractor, recoil spring just crapped out.

Gun for gun, they are worth about $350.00 a piece if that.

With Kahr, you are the R&D Department. I got mine around 1998, they have had more than enough time to get it right and they have the nerve to ask what they do for a pistol----list price anyway. The PM 9 has been a problem child since it came out.

 

[flip180]

SteelyDan

I apprecitate your input but, I have not drug Preacherman's name though the mud. As I have stated in a previous post, he is trying to remedy the situation. We have been discussing this through PM's. This does problem does need to be addressed in the forums though. I apperantly have not been the only person to have this problem. If the problem can be solved fairly simply, then maybe all of these P-9's and PM9's that people have had similar problem with can go from being distrused safe queens and start being carried as defensive pistols as they were intended to be.

Robert.

 

[HankB]

flip180:

I'm going to clean the gun and I'm going to go to the gun shop and trade it in for a G-26.

joell33:

I got rid of a Kahr in dec. . . . and went back to a glock 26.

waxed canvas:

I learned about Kahr early on with one that choked, i mean just fell apart

I had a Kahr P9 with MANY problems. After repeated trips back to Kahr (they paid postage both ways) they replaced the pistol. Being of the "once burned, twice shy" sort, I immediately traded the replacement for a Glock 26. (replacing a Kahr with a Glock 26 seem to be common - I believe Mr. Stephen Camp did much the same.)

Some polymer Kahrs still work, but it appears to be a crapshoot as to whether or not YOURS will.

The Glock 26 isn't as neat a package as the P9 was, but unlike the Kahr, the Glock actually can be depended on to WORK!

 

[flip180]

I just got off of the phone with Kahr

They are suspecting the same thing as I am. They said to change out the recoil spring first to see if that fixes it then change out the extractor spring if that doesn't work. Plus they said that would be a good time to clean out the the extractor tunnel at the same time. I figured that . I removed the extractor and cleaned the extractor tunnel everything I cleaned my 1911. I don't know the round count of this pistol so, there is a good chance that needs cleaning too. As far as the extractor itself being out if specs as far as fitting is involved. They said that that the extracotr was a drop it part on all of their pistols that requires no special fitting.

Robert

 

[eyz]

I had a k40 I owned about a week, jamomatic. trade it and the money you lose will be well spent on the education gained.

 

[Gunmeister]

An opposite view, I traded a Glock G26 for my Kahr PM9, The only mod to my PM9 is a set of Novac nite sites. After 3 to 4 thousand rounds, no malfs. I noticed that FLIP180 said he "put the stock guide rod back in" I've owned four Kahrs and never had a problem with any of them, I also think that most guns, with a few exceptions, seem to work best with the parts the designer intended them to have. As for Kahr products, after owning and shooting my K40, K40 Covert, MK40 and PM9 with thousands of rounds down range with no malfs, I credit that to keeping the guns surgically clean, leaving the OEM parts in place, resist tinkeritus and if it aint broke, don't fix it.

 

[oldfella]

Just bought a new MK9 Elite 2003 with night sights and so far it has performed flawlessly - I think there is a lemon in every tree. The only "problem" I have is racking the slide with these old, weak hands - the factory standard recoil springs in the MK guns is said to be 20.5 Lbs, I wonder if reducing it to the 18.5 Lb Wolff offers will perform well. Any ideas?

 

[Preacherman]

There's also the question of ammo sensitivity - see this thread for a good example. Have you tried different brands of ammo?

 

[oldfella]

Thanks, Preacherman - It is known that the Kahr pistols, at least the older models, are finicky with ammo... they do not like all ammo. So far I am in the beak in period and have used only S&B FMJ ammo. What I read about this new model (Elite 2003) is that it supposed to devour any-and- all types of ammo, before, during and after the break-in period... we'll see.