P220 ST or USP 45 Tactical ?

[timmerk]

Hi,

What gun should I buy for a general use gun, as well as double as a CCW gun?

HK USP 45 Tactical, or Sig P220 ST? I am leaning toward the P220 ST right now.

Does the Walther P99 .40 even compare to these guns? I am partial to the P99 as well.

Thanks!

 

[KMKeller]

P220ST. While the HK is lighter, it's also substantially larger. I've owned both and find the P220ST hands down to be my favorite.

 

[Harold A]

Timmerk,

I see you posting here and at the SigForum. For carry I would go with the Walther. You are not going to lug around a USP Tactical or 220ST. I have tried with a 220ST and I find it is to heavy for all day carry. You may feel different.

If I remember correctly you are fairly new to handguns. Why are you looking at the USP tactical? That is an awful lot of oney to shell out for a gun. Now it is a nice gun and accurate as hell but not what I would consider a carry gun.

I have a 220ST with an M6 mounted and use it as my HD gun. My carry gun is a Steyr M40. I feel very well armed with either. They steyr is a polymer gun so much lighter then the Sig. Would I be comfortable with the Steyr doing double duty for sure, but it is always better to have more toys.

If you want something to carry I would look at the Walther or the new Sig 229R when they become available. The 229 is a compact pistol comes in 9, 40, or 357sig. The R version adds the rail to it if you want. Another good choice would be the USP compact. It would give you the choice of carrying cocked and locked ot in DA mode.

I would head down to a local range and rent as many as possible and get whatever you like.

Just a question about a post in the SigForum why the concern about having a threaded barrel for the Sig?

 

[timmerk]

Thanks for your replies! I am new to the gun world. The reason I was asking about the threaded barrel is that I think I will want to get a class III permit or whatever you need to get a supressor. I want to do a lot of target practicing in my woods in the summer, but even though our houses are fairly far apart, gunshots would annoy many people. This is a ways off anyways, plus I hear it takes up to a year to get the permit.

Is the P99 accurate? How about compared to the P220?

Thanks!

 

[357SIG]

I have the USP, the 220ST, and the P99 .40.

All three are very accurate, but I seem to do best with the HK. Recoil is about the same between the HK and the Walther, IMO, but the 220ST is so heavy that it dampens the .45 recoil down to the level of my 9mm Glock. I favor the grip angle on the HK because it is the most natural for me.

If you want a compact, concealable pistol, go with the P99. It has more recoil than any other .40 I've used, but it is also very controllable due to the ergonomic grip. I've never had any issues with this gun yet. I do like the magazine release on the P99 because it is ambidextrous. I just use my trigger finger to dump the mags. It has the same release as the USP.

The P220ST has very mild recoil for a .45. The trigger on this pistol is perfect; it is smooth and light. The only down side to this gun is the size vs. magazine capacity. The grip is the same size as that on my HK, but it doesn't use a double-stack mag. It could just be the factory rubber grips that make it fat. I've never had any problems with this pistol either.

Finally, the HK, which is my personal favorite. Recoil is not bad, even though it is a light weight pistol. Honestly, I think the P99 recoils more than the USP. DA trigger pull is not one of the HK's strong points...it sucks compared to the SIG or Walther. The good thing is that the HK can be carried cocked and locked in SA mode, which is very light and smooth like the SIG. I've never had any problems with this gun either (strange, huh?!?!? ) Again, I favor the mag release on this gun.

In order to get a suppressor, you do not need a C3 license. However, you will need to fill out an ATF Form 4 and have it signed by your local sheriff, police chief, or state attorney in your district. After that, the form goes to the ATF with a $200 tax and will be approved in 2-6 months (takes a while, I know), at which point you can go get your suppressor at the shop. If you actually want to deal in C3 weapons, you need to be a Class 3 SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayer). If you go this route, make sure you are not just getting the license to buy for your collection. You need to be able to show that you are a legit dealer, otherwise ATF and/or the IRS can come down on you hard.

The best of the three guns to suppress is the HK Tactical. The barrel is already threaded and properly weighted to accept most of the suppressors out there. It will be less of a headache than trying to get either of the other two to work correctly. Also, the .45 is subsonic, which makes it easier to suppress. The .40 can be suppressed, but you will hear a ballistic crack as it breaks the speed of sound. The "crack" sound cannot be suppressed.

 

[10-Ring]

I've owned the P220, shot a few mags of the P99 & own several USPs Of the 3, I prefer the USP 45 (Being in CA, I can't own an evil threaded barrel ).
Truthfully, I don't think you can go wrong w/ any of your selections. The deciding factor would be which gun fits & performs best in your hands.

 

[45R]

I vote the Sig 220ST

 

[SigP220ST_Guy]

I was in a similar situation not long ago. I narrowed it down to a Sig P220ST and H&K USP45. If you have not handled these two pistols I highly suggest you do so before going out and purchasing. When I went and felt the difference in the pistols my mind was made up. Don't get me wrong the H&K is a very fine pistol indeed but it just did not fit in my hand. The grip was very large (the compact did feel a bit nicer) too large for my hands. Plus I already own a plastic pistol (Glock) the all steel Sig felt great in my hands.

Recoil is a very subjective thing however I don't see how you can say the recoil in the Sig P220ST is lighter than the recoil in a Glock 9mm. I just sold a Glock 19, 9mm and still have a Glock 22, .40S&W and I think the recoil is heavier with the Sig P220ST than either of the Glocks. I cannot compare the recoil between the Sig and H&K since I have never shot the H&K but I would imagine the recoil would be similar between these two pistols.

As you can see the choice I made and I am very happy with the Sig. But as I said both are excellent pistols, just get which ever feels better in YOUR hand and which ever pistol configuration you prefer. One advantage the H&K has is it comes in so many variants.

 

[357SIG]

I didn't say the recoil was lighter than the Glock, but it is very close (at its level). I have a Glock 19 as well and had a G22. My G22 recoiled a lot more than my 220ST, but the G19 does not. The SIG is very close to the 19, as I have fired them side-by-side to compare. The SIG P220ST was fired with 230 gr. Win USA FMJ and the G19 was fired with Win USA 115 gr. FMJ.

The USP recoils considerably more than the 220ST, but it is not too bad.

Interestingly enough, a lot of people find my G19 to be snappy. It could be my gun, but the casings only eject about 5 feet away, so I can't imagine it being a weak spring. I dunno.

 

[timmerk]

"Also, the .45 is subsonic, which makes it easier to suppress. The .40 can be suppressed, but you will hear a ballistic crack as it breaks the speed of sound. The "crack" sound cannot be suppressed."

So, all .40 bullets go faster then the speed how sound? How loud is this crack?

And no 45 goes faster? I can use regular ammo with a 45 supressor?

Thanks!

 

[timbo]

Normal pressure loads for .45 are subsonic. Once you start getting into +p rounds then you'll get supersonic speeds out of them, I think. Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm right on this.

As far as carry goes, I'd favor the P220 just because it's not a USP Tactical. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one, and I love my full-size USP .45, but it's just too big in my opinion for carry. All USP's are big guns. The compacts are rather big even for being a compact gun. In addition, the Tactical is very expensive, I'm guessing you'll be spending around $1200 for one, if not more.

But in the end, I just say get what fits you. If you can hide it and you think the cash is work it, go with the USP. I'd favor a smaller gun than either of these myself, but between them I'd choose the P220.

 

[w1mnk]

I own both. Both are excellent. If I were asked to give one up, hmmmm, grrrrrr, ahhhh.... I think I would reluctantly keep the P220ST. This weapon has the finest trigger of all the autos that I own (over 20). But the H&K USP Tactical is no slouch either. Both are fine crafted precision tools. Designed, with proper care, to last several lifetimes.

 

[357SIG]

The speed of sound is roughly 1000-1100 fps, depending on a lot of factors (humidity, air temp, etc.). Most .45 ACP rounds do not reach this speed, but most .40 loads will. The gunshot itself is much louder than the sound of the crack, but the sound will always be there with supersonic ammo.