P365XL Arrived - Review of problems

[Old Dog]

For some reason, I find this thread interesting.

Even though I (we, rather) own several iterations of the P-365, I (we) have never felt compelled to fix or "improve" anything on any of these pistols.

My P-365 XL in particular has become probably my very favorite striker-fired pistol of all time. The splendid ergonomics out of the box (for my hands, anyway), terrific trigger and the size-magazine capacity ratio along with its "shootability" and superb sights may have made this pistol a regular EDC for me (in spite of my love for either a dedicated SA or DA/SA platform).

I have looked long and hard enough at this pistol, yet cannot find any problems or better ways to do things with this product. But I appreciate the OP for bringing up his experiences with his new pistol, and will certainly keep an open mind if (when) I buy any new SIGs...

 

[Alllen Bundy]

I polished the XL guide rod, but it put up quite a fight. I ground the end of an Allen wrench to fit the recess in the end of the guide rod.







I put the guide rod in my spring compressor so the ends would be exposed. I tried to unloosen the guide rod end but it didn't want to budge. I suspected that they used high strength Loctite to secure it. So I heated the end to 500°F which is usually sufficient to allow you to loosen a screw treated with high strength Loctite. But it still wouldn't budge. I heated the other end just in case that was the threaded end, but it still didn't want to budge and I didn't want to break it. So I let it cool.

I polished one exposed end, then pushed the guide rod through in the other direction in the compressor and polished the other exposed end. I wet sanded the guide rod starting with 400 grit silicone carbide sandpaper and ending with 1,200 grit sandpaper. I cleaned the guide rod and recoil spring it with 99.99% isopropyl alcohol

The guide rod in the upper half of the photo is as received and you can see the lathe turning grooves in the guide rod.



The guide rod in the lower half of the photos is polished.

I lubed the return spring assembly with Mil-Comm TW-25B and reassembled my P365XL.

Now it racks smoothly and quietly.

 

[Tallball]

Good work!

 

[powermad]

They don't need anything but ammo.

If your ideas are so great why were some of your posts removed due to safety concerns on another forum?
Which is something I have never seen happen to someone before.

From guitar pick-ups to lil plastic pistols, you can't leave anything alone, everything is defective.

Improvements with verified results is one thing.
Smaller groups, faster split times ect.

I would suspect that a 365 would see no noticable improvements that more than half a box of ammo would cure.

I've had the FCU out of mine once.
That was to swap it to an XL grip mod when I first got it. Installed a flat trigger at the same time as well.
Couple thousand rounds later and I still haven't done much more than apply lube when needed and wipe it down once in a while.

 

[JR24]

I think a lot of folks justify their love and desire to tinker with “improving” triggers, slides, springs and whatnot. That’s not a bad thing if done safely, but I do think that simply taking the money, time and effort and actually shooting the guns would help as much, probably more, than swapping triggers, spring and polishing this and that.

 

[dweis]

I have never owned a SIG. I have considered them, but ruled them out when finding less expensive good options. This thread surprised me because when you pay the kind of money that the P265XL costs SIG would exercise better quality control. An unpolished guide rod seems like a major oversight to me. Not that they don’t have their problems, but I’ll stick with Ruger for its great CS.

 

[Balrog]

I have never owned a SIG. I have considered them, but ruled them out when finding less expensive good options. This thread surprised me because when you pay the kind of money that the P265XL costs SIG would exercise better quality control. An unpolished guide rod seems like a major oversight to me. Not that they don’t have their problems, but I’ll stick with Ruger for its great CS.

Keep in mind that the perceptions of the original poster may not have been problems. He didn't like the way certain things looked. From re-reading, I don't see any mention of any of the issues described resulted in any type of malfunction or underperformance of the gun. Maybe I missed what actual problem any of the things discussed caused. Its not even clear whether the gun has been fired.

 

[rust collector]

Deep down, many of us miss the attention that was lavished on Smith & Wesson and Colt revolvers in their heyday. None of them are made that way now, so some of us take up the task. As long as safety isn't implicated, what's the harm?

 

[unclenunzie]

I will say that I have learned to accept my limitations when it comes to pistol modifications. I own a P365 and an XL, and added to both the Wilson Combat grip modules, with the offered tungsten weights. I much prefer the WC grips to the originals, but either works fine. Naturally, I tested both pistols before and after the WC grip module installations with carry loads as well as range fodder. Flawless before and after. That's really all I need. Reliability, accuracy, safety, comfort.

These P365 modular FCUs are the next incremental step in pistol design, in my humble opinion. Their utility is significantly enhanced by their reliability which had bred popularity (and acceptance within the LE community even at the agency level). Which in turn has further created a robust after-market of quality enhancements and customizations.

I want Sig (and S&W, Ruger, Glock, CZ, etc) to make as much profit as they possibly can while retaining and increasing their customer base. They all build the best possible quality at a price point for their identified customer base (now and future). I can't argue against modest improvements made at a customer's expense either in time, money, or engineering knowledge and skill. But I will argue against the notion that because improvements are possible that this equals a defect in the product line.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

If your ideas are so great why were some of your posts removed due to safety concerns on another forum?

You are referring to Sig Talk where they don't know how to debate in a civil manner and will crucify you if you go against the status quo. The issue was manual chambering which CAN be done in a safe manner with a Sig P365 by inserting a cartridge into the firing chamber, easing the slide closed and pressing on the rear of the extractor which pivots the extractor outward allowing the extractor claw to pivot outward enough to allow the recoil spring to pull the slide back into battery. And to prove that if you release the slide and allow it to slam closed I did it 1,830 times with no visible damage to the extractor. I wasn't actually banned because of a safety issue. They claimed that I was rude to someone after I replied to a deluge of very rude comments towards me. The moderator was just looking for a flimsy excuse to ban me.

From guitar pick-ups to lil plastic pistols, you can't leave anything alone, everything is defective.

Often poorly designed. I got paid to discover and fix design problems as a career.

Improvements with verified results is one thing.
Smaller groups, faster split times ect.

You can shoot with a sliver in your trigger finger. But don't you think it would be better to remove the sliver first? I don't think that it's necessary to prove you can shoot better without a sliver in your trigger finger.

I would suspect that a 365 would see no noticable improvements that more than half a box of ammo would cure.

Your suspicions would be incorrect, because a box of 50 rounds did NOT cure the problems in my P365. That is why I polished the stripper rail, polished the breech face, polished the left adjacent wall to the breech face, polished the underside of the extractor claw, polished the beveled leading edge of the extractor claw, and polished the trigger linkage contact points, added weight to the grip, reshaped the underside of the grip, and radiused the sharp corners of the beavertail. This all made noticeable and often measurable improvements. improvements.

I've had the FCU out of mine once.
That was to swap it to an XL grip mod when I first got it. Installed a flat trigger at the same time as well.
Couple thousand rounds later and I still haven't done much more than apply lube when needed and wipe it down once in a while.

If you want to let rough parts grind together that is your business. I would rather polish the parts smooth and having my pistol operate at peak performance the first time I fire it.

There is nothing outlandish about anything that I have done with my pistol. The finishing work that I've done is what you would expect from a $5,000 pistol. Other than perhaps the barrel, a pistol should NOT need a break-in.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

...This thread surprised me because when you pay the kind of money that the P265XL costs SIG would exercise better quality control. .......An unpolished guide rod seems like a major oversight to me.

I believe this to be a cost cutting issue, not a quality control issue. I had the same issue with a Rival Arms guide rod. They had the gall to call their guide rod "smooth".

Not that they don’t have their problems, but I’ll stick with Ruger for its great CS.

I've never torn apart a Ruger to see what is inside. But it's rare that I can't find cost cutting measures in a product.

 

[bdickens]

Maybe you would be happier if you just bought a $5000 custom pistol to begin with...

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Keep in mind that the perceptions of the original poster may not have been problems....

Difficulty racking a slide over a magazine loaded to capacity is a problem. A slide that won't chamber a round when it is eased closed is a problem. A gritty trigger is a problem. An unpolished extractor face that makes it more difficult to manually chamber a round is a problem. A beavertail with corners that can catch the web between your thumb and forefinger during a draw is a problem. An uncomfortable grip is a problem. A recoil spring with a short lifespan is a problem when recoil springs rater for more than twice the lifespan are available. A rough and noisy guide rode is an irritation that produces unnecessary contaminants inside the pistol. A holster that won't hold the pistol in place when inverted is a problem. A top heavy pistol that feels floppy when low on ammunition is an issue for me. A magazine release button that I cannot access without rotating the pistol in my hand is a problem.

From re-reading, I don't see any mention of any of the issues described resulted in any type of malfunction or underperformance of the gun.

These are all issues that I had with my P365 and my P365XL appears to have most of these issues as well. I've previously written about most of these issues and my cures to the problems.

He didn't like the way certain things looked.

I haven't done a single thing to my P365 or P365XL for cosmetic reasons. They have all been functional changes that either fix a problem or improve reliability and/or function.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

Maybe you would be happier if you just bought a $5000 custom pistol to begin with...

I would be very happy if you bought me a $5,000 pistol. But a $600 Sig and some finishing work will also get the job done. $600 for a Sig is what I'm willing to and can afford to spend.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

I own a P365 and an XL, and added to both the Wilson Combat grip modules, with the offered tungsten weights. I much prefer the WC grips to the originals, but either works fine.

I added 2 oz of weight to my XL grip and 1.75 oz to my P365 grip, which is more than the 1.5 oz that the Wilson grips hold. I did this before the Wilson grips were available. I haven't tried the Wilson grips yet. But after the grip modifications that I've made my P365X and XL fit my hand like a glove. But if the grip was still uncomfortable I would be trying out the Wilson grips, the Houge grip sleeves, and anything else that was out there.

These P365 modular FCUs are the next incremental step in pistol design, in my humble opinion. Their utility is significantly enhanced by their reliability which had bred popularity (and acceptance within the LE community even at the agency level). Which in turn has further created a robust after-market of quality enhancements and customizations.

That is one of the things about the P365 series that I really like. It's highly customizable to my needs.

But I will argue against the notion that because improvements are possible that this equals a defect in the product line.

If a rough stripper rail causes the slide to be so difficult to retract over a magazine loaded to capacity that some people cannot do it, THAT is a finishing problem that needs correction. A beavertail that my hand can hang up on during a draw is a design problem that needs correction. A short magazine release button that requires me to rotate the pistol in my hand to actuate it is a problem for me. But people with shorter fingers would still need to rotate the pistol in their hand to actuate any magazine release button so it isn't a problem for them. A slide that won't chamber a round unless it is allowed to slam closed because of unnecessary friction issues because of poor finishing is a problem that should be addressed. Everything else that I've mentioned before are just benefits for me.

 

[dweis]

I believe this to be a cost cutting issue, not a quality control issue. I had the same issue with a Rival Arms guide rod. They had the gall to call their guide rod "smooth".



I've never torn apart a Ruger to see what is inside. But it's rare that I can't find cost cutting measures in a product.

Ruger’s recent spate of problems with its double stack 380 LCP is the proof in your words. Thing is that Rugers are not priced up at the level of SIGs.

 

[bdickens]

Some people just can't be happy unless they have something to be unhappy about....

 

[Balrog]

Difficulty racking a slide over a magazine loaded to capacity is a problem. A slide that won't chamber a round when it is eased closed is a problem. A gritty trigger is a problem. An unpolished extractor face that makes it more difficult to manually chamber a round is a problem. A beavertail with corners that can catch the web between your thumb and forefinger during a draw is a problem. An uncomfortable grip is a problem. A recoil spring with a short lifespan is a problem when recoil springs rater for more than twice the lifespan are available. A rough and noisy guide rode is an irritation that produces unnecessary contaminants inside the pistol. A holster that won't hold the pistol in place when inverted is a problem. A top heavy pistol that feels floppy when low on ammunition is an issue for me. A magazine release button that I cannot access without rotating the pistol in my hand is a problem.



These are all issues that I had with my P365 and my P365XL appears to have most of these issues as well. I've previously written about most of these issues and my cures to the problems.



I haven't done a single thing to my P365 or P365XL for cosmetic reasons. They have all been functional changes that either fix a problem or improve reliability and/or function.

I think you just bought the wrong gun for you when you bought the P365 XL.

 

[CNobbe]

I believe this to be a cost cutting issue, not a quality control issue. I had the same issue with a Rival Arms guide rod. They had the gall to call their guide rod "smooth".

The current Sig Sauer is a master of cost cutting, and marketing. They are innovative, but execution is a different story.

 

[Balrog]

The current Sig Sauer is a master of cost cutting, and marketing. They are innovative, but execution is a different story.

My P365 and P365 XL shoot good though.

 

[Alllen Bundy]

The extractor in my P365, purchased in October 2020, and the first extractor that I purchased soon after, had a groove in the underside of the extractor claws that is a stress riser where a crack could possibly begin.



In the photo below, the extractor claw in my new P365XL does not appear to have this groove. Whether or not this was a conscious design improvement, a quality control improvement, or just normal quality variation, I don't know.



Also, Sig allegedly no longer uses the plastic insert inside the extractor return spring. My P365XL was born in June 2022 and it DOES have the plastic insert inside the extractor return spring. I'm not sure if or when Sig actually stopped using the plastic spring insert.

 

[Mosin77]

As someone who does not own a Sig P365 I appreciate this thread. Will it dissuade me from buying one in the future? Not likely. I’m already on the fence/waiting for a good deal. It’s a want, not a need. On the other hand I definitely appreciate hearing about the ways in which corners are cut, because we know full well that Sig is making a killing on these, so there absolutely must be corners cut somewhere. There’s not a thing wrong with critiquing and improving, and the world would be a very boring place if the only experts on the design of the pistol were to be found within Sig’s corporate offices.

 

[groundhog34]

If you noticed those issues at the store why did you buy it?

 

[Alllen Bundy]

If you noticed those issues at the store why did you buy it?

Because the other pistols available do not meet as many of my requirements as the P365 series does. There is nothing to say that I would not find problems with other similar pistols. I find problems for a living and I am good at it. I'm also aware that most of the issues with the P365 series can be easily remedied. In the time that I have spent writing about P365 problems I could have fixed them 20 times over.

It's not much different than buying a suit off of the rack and doing some minor alterations to make it fit me perfectly.

 

[red rick]

I want to say something , but I won’t .