P99AS Carry Mode

[seikdel]

Hey Folks. I have a Walther P99AS chambered in 9mm that I carry every day. I carry it cocked in AS mode. For the uninitiated, it's similar (although not identical) to other striker-fired pistols, except that in AS mode, the first shot has a very long, light trigger pull with a normal (e.g. heavy) break.
The pistol has at least 2 internal safeties (3, if memory serves, though that may include the decocker), including a trigger safety and a firing pin block safety.
I carry it in a Don Hume leather holster, which completely covers the trigger guard. I've always felt comfortable carrying it like this, and with proper trigger discipline, I think the possibility of a ND falls somewhere between "inconceivable" and "impossible".
When I googled around, though, I found that the majority of people responding to similar topics carry it decocted in DA mode. Very few people offered any explanation beyond, "it's just safer that way".

My question is this: Do you folks think a ND possible or probable while carrying like this? How do you think this would happen? What can I do to prevent it, or should I just start carrying it decocked?
I'm especially interested to hear from other P99AS owners. It really doesn't seem that different to me than carrying any other striker-fired pistol.

 

[chrome_austex]

I carry mine decocked, I do believe that is the designed purpose of the AS trigger, so I do think you are out of the norm with your preference to carry it cocked.

That said, I also wouldn't worry about it when its in a good holster, but more that the gun is dangerously close to firing when being handled in cocked short light trigger mode coming into and going out of the holster.

Either way, as long as you're following the 4 rules of gun safety, do what you wish.

When cocked the trigger is a bit too light (and short) for my tastes. I shoot a lot of IDPA, and usually I don't even notice the heavier first shot trigger pull unless I'm starting on a long range shot that takes more than the usual trigger control discipline. For practical defensive purposes at close range, I don't find the longer heavier trigger pull slows me down, or is even really noticeable.

 

[seikdel]

I'm a bit confused about the purpose of the AS trigger. I thought it was designed to reduce the likelihood of a ND when the gun is cocked. I thought that this is o I've you some leeway for carrying cocked or decocked. At any rate, is it that different from carrying a partially-cocked Glock or a fully-cocked PPQ?

 

[PabloJ]

Not sure what AS trigger is or if it is necessary or useful, but I heard Walther P99 is good pistol and ALMOST as reliable as a Glock.

 

[Fishbed77]

Not sure what AS trigger is or if it is necessary or useful, but I heard Walther P99 is good pistol and ALMOST as reliable as a Glock.

You heard wrong then, because it is one of the few pistols that is easily MORE reliable than a Glock.

No history of kabooms, no list of issues every time a new generation is released, better ability to feed a wider variety of ammo, less succeptible to limp-wristing, etc. Same extensive torture testing (videos of which can be found on Walther's German site if you look long enough). Better fit & finish overall, as well.

When cocked the trigger is a bit too light (and short) for my tastes.

The single-action trigger in AS mode is the same length as as the double-action pull (longer than a Glock), and the weight (approx. 4.5-5 lbs) is only slightly less than a Glock's. The P99 uses a trigger safety similar in theory to a Glock's (though very different in appearance). I don't see anything inherently unsafe about carrying in AS mode, provided the trigger guard is covered. It will not fire as long as you keep your booger-hooker off the trigger.

That said, I always decock mine for that extra bit of peace of mind (whether rational or not) and because I'm used to firing DA/SA from the decocked position.

 

[wild cat mccane]

I think you are utilizing the AS as intended.

You can answer your own question though. In full length AS pull mode, the trigger sets half way if you pull it to that point. Have you ever pulled the gun out of the holster and found it in AS mode with the trigger not at full length of a pull?

DA/SA is the norm. You aren't doing it wrong. Most of use feel DA/SA is "safer."

Anyone not familiar with the P99AS should see the varsitility of this trigger.
It can be:
1. just like a glock (but with better reset and travel)
2. like any hammer fired with hammer down (use decocker to DA followed by SA. Does have restrike DA pull)
3. AS mode. full length DA pull with a SA feel that follows up in normal SA reset.
All of these can be set independently of the other modes.

Walther-make the PPS in AS already.

 

[Fishbed77]

3. AS mode. full length DA pull with a SA feel that follows up in normal SA reset.

Just to clarify, in the AS mode, the first full-length pull is single-action, not double-action. The striker is fully-cocked, but the pull length is the same as the length of the decocked double-action pull.

Walther-make the PPS in AS already.

Are you sure about this? I'm pretty sure the PPS is only offered with a single trigger type, which is similar to a Glock pre-cocked striker, with the same pulll every time.

 

[2WheelsGood]

Just to clarify, in the AS mode, the first full-length pull is single-action, not double-action.

You've got it backwards. Once "decocked" into AS mode, the first pull is DA. SA after that. To be more explicit, insert mag, rack slide to chamber, the gun is now is SA mode. Then press the decocker to drop the hammer and put the gun into AS mode. It is now DA. If you don't push the decocker, the gun stays in SA mode indefinitely.

 

[balance 740]

OK.

The DA (Double-Action) mode of the P99 has a long trigger travel and about a 10-12lb pull.

The AS (Anti-Stress) mode of the trigger has an identical length of travel as when it is in DA mode, but with as light of a pull as when it is in SA (Single-Action) mode.

The SA (Single-Action) mode of the trigger has a short travel and a 3.5-5lb trigger pull.

If you decock after loading the P99, it will function like any other DA/SA pistol. Long/heavy first shot, short/light subsequent shots.

The only way to get the pistol to AS mode, is to rack the slide, or reload from slide lock without decocking.

To go from AS mode to SA mode, you pull the trigger half of it's travel length, and it clicks into SA mode.

With a P99 AS, you have the option of a DA/SA pistol, or an AS/SA pistol. Or in other words, a long/heavy first shot with short/light subsequent shots, or a long/light first shot, with short/light subsequent shots.

I always decock my P99, and don't care for the AS mode.

 

[balance 740]

As to the original question, I already pointed out that I don't care for the AS mode, and I personally believe the AS mode is just a byproduct of a DA/SA striker fired pistol.

The DA on the P99 feels a lot lighter than most other DA/SA pistols out there in DA mode. Probably because the P99 is striker fired and does not have a hammer or mainspring to deal with.

I don't find that I shoot that first shot any better in AS mode than I do in DA mode, so I decock and go with the heavier first shot.

 

[2WheelsGood]

I don't find that I shoot that first shot any better in AS mode than I do in DA mode, so I decock and go with the heavier first shot.

You're not using the Walther terminology correctly. AS (Anti Stress) mode is DA (Double Action). AS mode is what you get after you press the decocker. So when you say you decock and go with the heavier first shot, that is AS mode.

As a side note, for those who followed the NY ban on Kahrs for officers, the point of the AS mode was for that very problem... stress causing NDs in the heat of the moment.

 

[SDG]

I carry the Walther P99c. There is always one in the chamber and it is always decocked when I carry it. The reason is not because I think that it will go off accidentally (although that might be somewhat of a secondary concern - whether valid or not) but because I want that first shot to be very intentional.

In a high stress situation, I want my first shot to be a long, heavy pull. I realize that at some point my trigger discipline might not be all it should be and I don't want to regret a discharge that I didn't intend.

I like everything about this gun - except the fact that aftermarket parts are hard to find. I guess it is really hard to improve on perfection so the manufacturers don't even try.

 

[balance 740]

I'm sorry 2WheelsGood, but you are mistaken.

Everything I've read from Walther that speaks about the AS mode of the trigger, considers the AS mode "single-action trigger forward" as it states in the manual.

Here is a thread from the Walther forum where a similar question was asked and answered on the first page. The OP of this thead may find the linked thread interesting as well, as the OP of that thread had a similar question as his:

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/p99/16973-carrying-p99c-mode-safe-not.html

 

[papa_bear]

I can't see a reason not to carry it decocked. Perhaps more practice is in order.

 

[Scimmia]

The AS trigger has absolutely nothing in common with a Glock other than it's what fires the gun. Nothing. Stop comparing it to a Glock.

The AS trigger setup is very, very similar to a traditional DA/SA hammer fired gun with the addition of AS mode which is nothing more than SA with a really long takeup. Personally, I'm not comfortable with carrying in SA mode, so I carry it decocked.

 

[Bobson]

Doesn't the P99 have a magazine disconnect?

 

[Scimmia]

Doesn't the P99 have a magazine disconnect?

No, it does not.

 

[Bobson]

My mistake. Thanks.

 

[seikdel]

No, it does not.

And thank goodness for that. Magazine disconnect is probably the most annoying feature of my P22, and I don't get what it's supposed to prevent. All it does for me is prevent me from lowering the hammer when I'm done cleaning without inserting a mag.

Thanks much for the responses, folks! The P99 is my first full-sized pistol, and I forget when I post that not everyone has had the chance to use one and thus not everyone knows what the AS trigger is. For what it's worth, I love mine, trigger and all, and I'm glad to see that I'm not committing an egregious error of judgement. I appreciate the feedback =)

 

[papa_bear]

I'm sorry you got that impression from this community. You should not be carrying cocked and unlocked. Pros don't do it and neither should someone with they're first centerfire gun. There is no reason for it. And its frowned upon by those in the know.

 

[2WheelsGood]

Pros don't do it and neither should someone with they're first centerfire gun.

Sure they do. Glocks don't have "locks", so every cop Carrying a Glock is carrying it cocked and unlocked. There is no way to "lock" a Walther (well, most Walthers), and there's no way to "lock" an XDM. As long as the gun is in a holster, it's as locked as it needs to be.

By the way, Balance 740, after I looked at the owner's manual, I see you are correct.

 

[Jbabbler]

I'm sorry you got that impression from this community. You should not be carrying cocked and unlocked. Pros don't do it and neither should someone with they're first centerfire gun. There is no reason for it. And its frowned upon by those in the know.

.... and if you don't agree with him then he will continue to post in a condescending tone until you do. You have been warned.


.

 

[balance 740]

.... and if you don't agree with him then he will continue to post in a condescending tone until you do. You have been warned. Today 08:48 AM

Who was this comment aimed at?

 

[Hangingrock]

I acquired an initial production S&W SW99-45ACP with the AS trigger system. The S&W owners manual explanations of the AS trigger system are CYA verbiage in my opinion.

I went to the Walther (Germany) on line site and their explanation of the AS system was not CYA. The AS designation applies to the pistol cocked with the trigger in the forward single action position long stroke.

If memory services me correctly examples were given for the employing of the pistol with the AS trigger in forward single action position long stroke.

My only complaint of the design is not the trigger system but the dual magazine release levers. A different hand position was required for me to avoid inadvertent activation of the magazine release levers during firing.

 

[Jbabbler]

sorry, quoted now