You are correct but glocks and xd's come with a heavier trigger than the p99 in "as" mode. There is a decocker there. Glocks couldn't be decocked it it had a decocker. It would be more similar to walking around with a hammer fired gun cocked with the safety off, which no responsible person does. responsibility should be encouraged. Bottom line is I see no reason or advantage to carrying cocked in "as" mode which is technically single action hammer cocked with no lock.
P99AS Carry Mode
- Thread starter seikdel
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My SW99c has the DA/SA trigger and I actually find the trigger to be perfect in DA mode. I like the stiffer trigger and would rather it be the same with every pull. That being said, Having the DA/SA makes the transition from my 3913 to the SW99c and back almost seamless as the two are very similar.
2WheelsGood
Member
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- Dec 2, 2010
- Messages
- 623
Maybe a Glock, but I highly doubt an XDM trigger pull is any heavier than a P99. Regardless, what difference does it make? If the gun is in a good holster, it's not going to discharge. And you made a blanket statement that carrying a centerfire pistol cocked and unlocked was somehow a bad idea. I think carrying a gun without it being chambered and cocked is a bad idea.
A negligent discharge is always possible if you're well, negligent. Probable? Not if you keep your finger off the trigger when you're not firing.
A negligent discharge may occur if something enters the trigger guard when you do not intend to shoot. That object could be your finger, or something else. If you use a good holster, and exercise control of your trigger finger, it won't be a problem.
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Despite would-be authoritative comments from some, there are plenty of automatics that have a light DA trigger pull. The Daewoo K5 series had this option, 20 years ago. The Para-Ordinance LDA stands for "light double action", and if I had one, I would carry it with the external safety off. The Kel-Tec P-32, P-3AT, and PF-9, all extremely popular handguns, have light, long double-action trigger pulls. I have heard complaints about quality, but have heard of no rash of people with negligent discharges with these weapons. (All three of these have no external safety.)
The whole point of double action is to eliminate the need for an external safety. If you're not comfortable without an external safety, or don't want a lighter trigger pull (shrug)- use what works for you.
Incidentally, Papa_Bear, what qualifies you to pontificate as to what "pros do"? I have no problem using DA with my CZ or the M9 that I now carry everywhere except the shower, but if I had the option of a lighter DA pull, it would be stupid not to use it. YMMV, obviously, but it's pretty foolish to dictate how others "should" carry their weapon, so long as they follow the safety rules. I'll gladly amend my statement if you can point out the "thou shalt not have a light DA pull unless thou useth the safety" in the safety rules...
John
my comments were short hand because i find it irritating to counter every possible argument every time a post is made. I don't know what is with the attacks. I wasnt being condescending I simply was trying to keep my post short. "Pro's" and "those in the know" was short hand for people who understand that a couple lb difference in a trigger pull is not going to affect combat accuracy but will increase safety and and if you have to come here and post this kind of post to find out if your being irresponsible than you really should be taking extra safety precautions. Owning a gun a going to the range once or twice a month can create over confidence in your skill set. Funny how
Through my years in the service and in competition shooting I have never seen some one keep a da/sa cocked and unlocked. the "as" trigger is proprietary but is akin to a da/sa and not a glock or xd trigger. Why is the decocker on the pistol? what advantage do you get from carrying it cocked? why don't all striker fired weapons come with 4.5.lb triggers? some people keep quoting the "4 rules" like they are the fail safe. Sound good in theory but how do you break down a glock??? thats right you pull the trigger. so if your in your house and you want to clean your glock you must break one or more the rules. Shame on you all for not promoting the utmost safety to non-mall ninjas.
And john I have 6 years with the 1st reacon bn, attended 4 Suarez int'l classes, And currently shoot IDPA. I am no pro but have met many.
3.3.4.1 P99 AS, Double Action Trigger
• Load the pistol and de-cock it. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Keep
your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
No need to amend your statement. The 4 rules obviously prevent everything. keep on moderating buddy.
Through my years in the service and in competition shooting I have never seen some one keep a da/sa cocked and unlocked. the "as" trigger is proprietary but is akin to a da/sa and not a glock or xd trigger. Why is the decocker on the pistol? what advantage do you get from carrying it cocked? why don't all striker fired weapons come with 4.5.lb triggers? some people keep quoting the "4 rules" like they are the fail safe. Sound good in theory but how do you break down a glock??? thats right you pull the trigger. so if your in your house and you want to clean your glock you must break one or more the rules. Shame on you all for not promoting the utmost safety to non-mall ninjas.
And john I have 6 years with the 1st reacon bn, attended 4 Suarez int'l classes, And currently shoot IDPA. I am no pro but have met many.
None of these pistols come with less than a 6.lb trigger pull. What are you talking about?
I am not dictating anything. The op was about opinion. I gave mine and shamed the people getting off topic and not stressing safety to someone with their first centerfire pistol.
http://www.carl-walther.de/files/pdf...99_ENGLISH.pdf
3.3.4.1 P99 AS, Double Action Trigger
• Load the pistol and de-cock it. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Keep
your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
No need to amend your statement. The 4 rules obviously prevent everything. keep on moderating buddy.
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No. I'm correct. The AS mode is the long single-action first pull, followed by short single-action pull. When you decock, you go to a traditional double-action first pull followed by short single action pulls.
I think we both understand the functioning of the pistol - just getting hung up on the terminology.
Hangingrock
Member
http://www.carl-walther.de/files/pdf/262_81_21_f_P99_ENGLISH.pdf
3.3.4.1 P99 AS, Double Action Trigger
• Load the pistol and de-cock it. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Keep
your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
CAUTION: The striker will re-cock if the slide is moved to the rear by about
10 mm. The trigger will remain in its forward-most position
(see Anti-Stress-Trigger below).
• While holding the grip firmly, squeeze the trigger fully to the rear to fire.
• Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to
fire again.
The subsequent shots will be fired with traditional Single Action trigger until the
P99 AS pistol is reset to Double Action by pressing the decocker.
3.3.4.2 P99 AS, Single Action Trigger
Traditional Single Action Trigger
After firing the first round all subsequent rounds will be fired with a traditional Single
Action trigger, until the pistol is reset to Double Action by pressing the decocker.
Anti-Stress Trigger
It is called “Anti-Stress” because the trigger pull of the P99 AS is the same length for
the first shot, regardless of whether it is double-action or single-action. The Anti-
Stress trigger functions as a sort of two-stage trigger, and lessens the possibility of a
stress-induced unintentional discharge.
Unlike the operation when shooting - when the trigger does not move all the way
forward between shots - any time the slide is retracted by hand the trigger moves to
its forward-most position. The combination of the trigger in the forward-most position
with the striker cocked is the main feature of the Anti-Stress trigger.
a) Shifting to Anti-Stress trigger mode by manually reloading
The Anti-Stress mode is activated each time the pistol is reloaded manually while the
finger is off the trigger.b) Shifting to Anti-Stress trigger mode by manually cocking
The Anti-Stress mode is also activated each time the pistol is cocked manually while
the finger is off the trigger:
Hold the de-cocked pistol with your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger
guard, point the muzzle in a safe direction. Pull back the slide by about 10 mm and
then move it back to its forward position. This puts the pistol in Anti-Stress mode(trigger in the forward-most position and the striker cocked).If the slide gets pulled to the rear more than 20 mm, a cartridge in the chamber
is ejected.
To fire a shot after such manual cocking, squeeze the trigger. When the trigger is
released, subsequent rounds will be fired using the traditional Single Action trigger
with a shorter trigger pull, until the P99 AS pistol gets reset to Double Action by
pressing the decocker.
3.3.4.1 P99 AS, Double Action Trigger
• Load the pistol and de-cock it. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. Keep
your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to fire.
CAUTION: The striker will re-cock if the slide is moved to the rear by about
10 mm. The trigger will remain in its forward-most position
(see Anti-Stress-Trigger below).
• While holding the grip firmly, squeeze the trigger fully to the rear to fire.
• Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to
fire again.
The subsequent shots will be fired with traditional Single Action trigger until the
P99 AS pistol is reset to Double Action by pressing the decocker.
3.3.4.2 P99 AS, Single Action Trigger
Traditional Single Action Trigger
After firing the first round all subsequent rounds will be fired with a traditional Single
Action trigger, until the pistol is reset to Double Action by pressing the decocker.
Anti-Stress Trigger
It is called “Anti-Stress” because the trigger pull of the P99 AS is the same length for
the first shot, regardless of whether it is double-action or single-action. The Anti-
Stress trigger functions as a sort of two-stage trigger, and lessens the possibility of a
stress-induced unintentional discharge.
Unlike the operation when shooting - when the trigger does not move all the way
forward between shots - any time the slide is retracted by hand the trigger moves to
its forward-most position. The combination of the trigger in the forward-most position
with the striker cocked is the main feature of the Anti-Stress trigger.
a) Shifting to Anti-Stress trigger mode by manually reloading
The Anti-Stress mode is activated each time the pistol is reloaded manually while the
finger is off the trigger.b) Shifting to Anti-Stress trigger mode by manually cocking
The Anti-Stress mode is also activated each time the pistol is cocked manually while
the finger is off the trigger:
Hold the de-cocked pistol with your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger
guard, point the muzzle in a safe direction. Pull back the slide by about 10 mm and
then move it back to its forward position. This puts the pistol in Anti-Stress mode(trigger in the forward-most position and the striker cocked).If the slide gets pulled to the rear more than 20 mm, a cartridge in the chamber
is ejected.
To fire a shot after such manual cocking, squeeze the trigger. When the trigger is
released, subsequent rounds will be fired using the traditional Single Action trigger
with a shorter trigger pull, until the P99 AS pistol gets reset to Double Action by
pressing the decocker.
Last edited:
DAdams
Member
Here we go again. The bi-annual 99AS Trigger/Operational thread.
I read this three times and I don't understand why the Anti-Stress Mode is called such when it is in the SA mode with the lightest trigger.
Seems like the AS Mode would be the decocked mode. :banghead:
Again terminology. I know how I would carry my 99AS and how I have it around home when impressed to HD duty.
Decocked.
wild cat mccane
Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2009
- Messages
- 977
holy moly. I answered the question already 
In the original poster's trigger config (AS-cocked, but with the trigger fully forward) if you pull the trigger to half way the trigger stays there. At this point it does not return to fully forward.
So if the OP has it in AS and has ever found his/her trigger at the half way point they know there has been substantial unwanted movement in the trigger. If that was the case I would say just carry decocked.
And yes, AS is very glock like. It is just a longer lighter pull. It does not feel like (and is not) a DA pull in AS. The P99AS only feels like a DA/SA when you decock it.
In the original poster's trigger config (AS-cocked, but with the trigger fully forward) if you pull the trigger to half way the trigger stays there. At this point it does not return to fully forward.
So if the OP has it in AS and has ever found his/her trigger at the half way point they know there has been substantial unwanted movement in the trigger. If that was the case I would say just carry decocked.
And yes, AS is very glock like. It is just a longer lighter pull. It does not feel like (and is not) a DA pull in AS. The P99AS only feels like a DA/SA when you decock it.
Hangingrock
Member
It is called “Anti-Stress” because the trigger pull of the P99 AS is the same length for
the first shot, regardless of whether it is double-action or single-action. The Anti-
Stress trigger functions as a sort of two-stage trigger, and lessens the possibility of a
stress-induced unintentional discharge.
DAdams,If you read post #32 I copied the information directly from Walther which explains the AS terminology.:banghead::banghead:
the first shot, regardless of whether it is double-action or single-action. The Anti-
Stress trigger functions as a sort of two-stage trigger, and lessens the possibility of a
stress-induced unintentional discharge.
DAdams,If you read post #32 I copied the information directly from Walther which explains the AS terminology.:banghead::banghead:
Papa_Bear,
Asking for substantiation- evidence- isn't an attack. That you believe it is says a lot about how you expect to be received (on faith).
I'm pretty sure I would LOVE to know who the "1st reacon bn" is. Please provide a link. (Hint: you're providing the opposite of proof.)
The Kel-Tecs come with a 5-lb trigger pull. But (take notes "Reacon"), here's the proof.
The fact that you list Gabe Suarez as evidence of training tells me everything I need to know about your advice, if it wasn't already obvious.
It's great that you can quote a manual (genuine source) on occasion, but since I've seen lots of manuals that say to only load the firearm immediately before shooting, that doesn't prove much.
John
Asking for substantiation- evidence- isn't an attack. That you believe it is says a lot about how you expect to be received (on faith).
You admit that the AS trigger is "akin to a DA/SA" immediately after this. So you're admitting the AS is safe enough, considering that it does indeed function like the DA of a DA/SA.
I'm pretty sure I would LOVE to know who the "1st reacon bn" is. Please provide a link. (Hint: you're providing the opposite of proof.)
The Kel-Tecs come with a 5-lb trigger pull. But (take notes "Reacon"), here's the proof.
The fact that you list Gabe Suarez as evidence of training tells me everything I need to know about your advice, if it wasn't already obvious.
It's great that you can quote a manual (genuine source) on occasion, but since I've seen lots of manuals that say to only load the firearm immediately before shooting, that doesn't prove much.
John
Ah, don't be mad, "Reacon".
It is good form to provide what a reasonable party would accept as evidence to support a strongly worded statement. I made a clear statement (the 3 KTs I mention have a 5-lb trigger pull), and then I provided a link proving same. That's how that whole evidence thing works.
What's not good form? Giving bombastic sweeping statements with absolute no basis.
It is good form to provide what a reasonable party would accept as evidence to support a strongly worded statement. I made a clear statement (the 3 KTs I mention have a 5-lb trigger pull), and then I provided a link proving same. That's how that whole evidence thing works.
What's not good form? Giving bombastic sweeping statements with absolute no basis.
I'll take the bait techie
http://officerresource.com/2010/01/kel-tec-pf-9-review/
http://www.thektog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=236099
You are right. Kel tec has its listed trigger pull @ 5lbs. However this is still heavier than the p99as in single action.
First off don't come at me with
psycho analysis. You weren't the only one attacking me.
I don't know what you mean here. I do admit it's stupid to walk around with this gun cocked.
I have one word for you Falluja. I have other words for you on this that would be better served in a pm or face to face.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/caleb-longstreet/gun-review-take-three-kel-tec-pf9/
http://officerresource.com/2010/01/kel-tec-pf-9-review/
http://www.thektog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=236099
You are right. Kel tec has its listed trigger pull @ 5lbs. However this is still heavier than the p99as in single action.
This statement pisses me off. I don't remember asking you to provide your training or qualifications techie. I see you have one gunsite class. way to go guy. keep pumping gas for the real men.http://xabyssus.blogspot.com/2011/04/hot-fuel.html
Thats got to be the second most ignorant statement I have seen on this forum. Right under the guy who said "basing opinion on personal experience is just dumb"
This antagonizing is not high road form. It's poor form and should not be coming from a techie admin.
Last edited by a moderator:
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Heading for a cliff...
I think there are plenty of opinions here from which the OP can make a decision, no?
I think there are plenty of opinions here from which the OP can make a decision, no?
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