Pack/Bicycle Rifle Project Options

[barnbwt]

I am feeling a strange 'want' for an ultralight, skeletal little rimfire carbine. I've seen a lot of the options out there from factories, and don't particularly care for them, so now I'm looking for potential platforms to build something from. Whatever the decision, it will have a foldable/removable stock made from lightweight wire or tubing attached, and the foregrip cut down to nothing. Small iron sights, only. May or may not have a trigger guard or folding trigger (it's not like I'd be carrying this thing around loaded, after all)

I had planned on doing the project as a 22LR or 22WMR, but apparently Bud's Gunshop has an 'exclusive' 17HMR variant of the Chiappa Little Badger for sale. Now, the 22 caliber options seem like they are probably more practical as a 'pack gun' since they won't fragment into rat-shot spread throughout your small-game meal or perforate its pelt, but 17HMR looks like a very interesting cartridge in its own right from a target-shooting angle. This project is really more of a utility rifle than a survival rifle; I make no plans on hunting opossum for dinner , but would rather just like a rifle for woods plinking that won't be noticed much while hiking. I like that 17HMR weighs less than 22WMR, but not that a .17 barrel will probably weigh more (being made for a 22WMR platform but with a narrower bore)

1) Chiappa Little Badger
Say what you will about Chiappa, it's pretty hard to think they'd be capable of screwing up something as simple as a single shot rimfire. I've heard nothing but good about the gun's performance (ergos, not so much). As I said before, the 17HMR model raises some of my interest, but I'm not convinced it'd be worth the extra 60$ Bud's wants over a typical 22WMR model

2) NAA Mini Revolver
This would be a slightly more expensive proposition, but a lot more capable. Convert the little mini-revolver into a full length pack rifle with a ~40$ Green Mountain barrel blank and a lot of careful lathe turning. I think NAA has also made revolvers in 17HMR.

3) Sow's Ear
Scrape around looking for a beat up old break action 22LR. Could probably be cheaper than a factory new variant, but would require more work to both find, and get into an equal working order (and that's assuming the barrel isn't jacked up). I remain unconvinced that this would be a better option than #1

4) Silk Purse
Make it myself. Either try to do a Jaco laminate-construction design with a full length barrel/stock, or something much nicer like a miniature Martini, Peabody, or falling block action. Incalculably more work involved, as well as a much longer time frame to completion (I have no deadline, though). But, there is the possibility for a much nicer end product than I would be able to find on the market, possibly at any price. I saw a guy on another forum do an heirloom-grade youth rifle in the form of a pump-action falling block in 32ACP --I'm not so ambitious (or skilled; that gun was a work of art), but you can see the kind of freedom you get when making the thing yourself.

Goal is to keep materials under 300$. I think one of the cheaper non-magnum NAA's could do this, the magnum would probably put me a little over 300$ with the longer barrel. Having 5 shots vs 1 does have a certain quality all its own, though . I would expect #3 would be the cheapest by far; just a barrel blank and a sheet of 1/4" & 1/8" steel plate; but I would also have to realistically consider the enormous effort required over any of the other options.

Thoughts? (Specifically thoughts relating to lightweight pack rifles?)

TCB

 

[g.willikers]

My vote would be for an AR7, and some accessories to suit from the folks who sell them.
https://www.ar-7.com/store/index.html
If you can find one of the Armalite originals, you won't be disappointed.

 

[VA27]

http://www.packrifle.com/

Here ya go.

 

[Speedo66]

Unless they've changed something from the previous 5 or 6 iterations, the AR-7's just don't run right. I'd be more inclined towards a Marlin Papoose.

 

[Speedo66]

http://www.packrifle.com/

Here ya go.

Does your name have to be "The Jackal" to buy one?

 

[chicharrones]

Well I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with, barnbwt!

I've seen others make a pack rifle out of NAA mini revolvers over at Rimfire Central and they sure look interesting. I'd only be afraid of losing the cylinder's center pin in the weeds somewhere during a reload. Plus, the whole cylinder gap/long barrel thing where bullet velocity doesn't gain as much as would be had in a "sealed" barrel.

I would think making a super light detachable stock for a Crickett/Chipmunk rifle or the Henry Mini Bolt would make an easy yet fun build.

 

[g.willikers]

the AR-7's just don't run right

That's why I mentioned the Armalite model, made to military acceptance.
They do work.

 

[BCRider]

A great basis for a packing rifle of this sort would be a TC Hotshot. The design is short because of the simple break action and it lends itself to a pistol grip with a folding stock.

A quick strip pin to mount the barrel could provide for even more compactness.

 

[chicharrones]

I had planned on doing the project as a 22LR or 22WMR, but apparently Bud's Gunshop has an 'exclusive' 17HMR variant of the Chiappa Little Badger for sale.

1) Chiappa Little Badger
Say what you will about Chiappa, it's pretty hard to think they'd be capable of screwing up something as simple as a single shot rimfire. I've heard nothing but good about the gun's performance (ergos, not so much). As I said before, the 17HMR model raises some of my interest, but I'm not convinced it'd be worth the extra 60$ Bud's wants over a typical 22WMR model

I've never seen anyone hold one of those until I saw that video. Man, that Little Badger is LITTLE!!!

It seems your pack gun is right there. I'd look into a quick take down pin instead of that screw they have from the factory. Lash that pin to the gun so it doesn't get dropped, I guess.

 

[d2wing]

I have a Daisy take down .22 LR. Very light and compact repeater. Mine is bolt action, I think they made a semi auto as well.

 

[theotherwaldo]

My favorite is still a Remington Model 12-c with a thinned-out buttstock and peep sights. I'm in the process of building another one right now.

 

[theotherwaldo]

-I also like my Charter Arms Explorer II now that I've tweaked it's innards and put in a stronger firing pin. Not exactly a carbine, but a fun and accurate pistol!

 

[VA27]

Unless they've changed something from the previous 5 or 6 iterations, the AR-7's just don't run right. I'd be more inclined towards a Marlin Papoose.

Does your name have to be "The Jackel" to buy one?

I've got one of the new Henry models (with the orange interior) and it runs as good as the old Armalite I had years ago.

No, but it'll get you moved up on the list!

 

[kid_couteau]

Here is a stock I made for my Cricket 22 mag

Might give you ideas

Kid

 

[StrawHat]

Stevens built one in the last century.

 

[txblackout]

pack rifle kit, converts a crickett youth rifle. The tube stock version weighs 15 oz.

http://www.rutalocura.com/PRK.html

PRK is short for Pack Rifle Kit. The PRK converts your Crickett or Chipmunk youth rifle into a light weight, take
down pack rifle. The PRK replaces the barrel and stock of of your Crickett or Chipmunk rifle with light weight
alternatives, shaving 1 pound 10 ounces out of the oem version.

 

[enine]

Unless they've changed something from the previous 5 or 6 iterations, the AR-7's just don't run right. I'd be more inclined towards a Ma

The current selling Henry had fixed all the issues. Mine works fine.

 

[Macchina]

The difference in steel material weight over an 18" barrel between a .222" bore and a .179" bore is 1.1 ounces.

 

[Armored farmer]

Didn't Beretta make a .22 auto pistol that could be had with a shoulder stock??
Neos maybe??... something like that.

Surely someone knows, I don't think I dreamed it.

 

[bscott29]

Maybe you could rig a Browning buck mark rifle stock onto a buck mark pistol and modify it into a folder.

 

[barnbwt]

Wow, a lot more interest in these than I'd expected...

Some really cool ideas for pack rifles, or at least camp rifles. I'm really trying to skew things towards the lightweight/cheap corner of the spectrum, so I have some limitations;

-Single shot (or maybe single action)
-Folding or take-down construction
-Metallic construction (to reduce volume as much as possible; wireframe everything)
-No exotic materials (aluminum is probably the most expensive material I'd go for, and likely not the fancy super-alloys)

AR7's may be good rifles, but those things are huge for what I'm going for; think in terms of a packable fishing pole, and that's the kind of 'burden' I'd be comfortable with. Again, in all likelihood the rifle would be 'useless' on a given excursion (i.e. not necessary for anything in particular), so as little mass/bulk as possible. Semi auto's are great for plinking, but I'd only be bringing a handful of rounds, and those guns by necessity come with springs, bolt bodies, magazines, more complex triggers, and larger receivers than single shot counterparts. All well and good, but not quite the "pen knife" of rifles that I'm shooting for

I'm still torn between the revolver and break open actions; the cylinder weighs more, but the receiver/frame of those also looks a bit lighter. Very little extra mass for the obvious benefit. It sounds like triggers can be acceptable for both the Badger and the NAA minis (the modded-mini would have a real trigger added, btw) so there's not much difference there.

One big plus of certain break-top actions would be the lack of an exposed hammer (a 'double-action' striker fired break action would be a stupid-simple gun to design/build, too). I'm reluctant to do a turn bolt simply because the handle tends to be heavy (since it's still human-sized) and makes the gun quite a bit wider. Whatever stock I come up with would most likely shroud the trigger when folded up against the barrel (so even the Chiappa would require some work to make it 'lay' flatter), or the trigger itself would fold away --pocket guns did this for a long time to shrink their footprint.

The big minus for the revolver is that it is possible, though not probable for them to go out of time/bind up. Not a life-threatening scenario since this is hardly a defense gun, but still annoying, and in the case of lead-spitting, potentially injuring.

"The difference in steel material weight over an 18" barrel between a .222" bore and a .179" bore is 1.1 ounces."
Jeez, talk about a pig . In all seriousness, an ounce is actually not insignificant for a gun that's what, probably under two pounds at the end of the day? I doubt one could turn the barrel much narrower than you would for a 22, not because of pressure concerns, but because of the risk of bending. Anyone think 17HMR adds enough utility/accuracy over 22mag to justify the extra weight/cost?

Once again, I think it's neat that people are thinking about these types of guns. It seems to be a poorly served chunk of the market, at least since 10/22's became so popular.

"Didn't Beretta make a .22 auto pistol that could be had with a shoulder stock??
Neos maybe??... something like that."
I believe the Neos carbine was an air rifle, but they did make a pistol version in 22LR. Ugly as sin but supposedly a pretty good handgun.

"Maybe you could rig a Browning buck mark rifle stock onto a buck mark pistol and modify it into a folder"
Sounds expensive

"Stevens built one in the last century."
2500$ Holy Bajeezus! It's like a Jaco with a coat hanger bolted on!

I take it the stock is angled so much in order to keep the length of pull down? Or is it to clear a riot-helmet?

"My favorite is still a Remington Model 12-c with a thinned-out buttstock and peep sights."
I like the look of the gun; how "old school Detroit Iron" is the build quality, though? It looks small, but still dense. At +400$ at auction, it's a bit beyond my price range. A model modified for skeleton stock, tubular pump-slide, takedown stock/receiver, and a shorter magazine would be a slick little kit

"Man, that Little Badger is LITTLE!!! It seems your pack gun is right there."
I like the concept and action of the gun, but the ergonomics are...nonexistent at the grip area, and for some reason they didn't design the stock to accommodate the trigger guard, so it doesn't fold up near as much as it should. As the basis to a tight setup, I think it nearly can't be beat (which is why it's kinda down to it and the NAA mini, unless I really get a wild hair to try the other two options)

"I've seen others make a pack rifle out of NAA mini revolvers over at Rimfire Central and they sure look interesting. I'd only be afraid of losing the cylinder's center pin in the weeds somewhere during a reload. Plus, the whole cylinder gap/long barrel thing where bullet velocity doesn't gain as much as would be had in a "sealed" barrel."
If I opted to accept the extra "bulk" and weight of a revolver cylinder, I'd probably bring just the five rounds in the cylinder, so reloading logistics wouldn't be as important (and there'd be no loose 22LR to lose in the weeds, either). Since a takedown barrel would be fairly hard to work on that gun, and since the cylinder already adds some width, my expectation would be to have a sliding "H&K-style" wire stock of 10" or as needed to get to 26" overall situated on either side above the barrel (would slide along the barrel), and a buttstock that shrouds the (dropped/locked) hammer when collapsed for safety. I don't think any changes to the grip or trigger would be needed, except maybe to make the trigger larger/unshrouded. I figure, if the hammer is protected and locked down between chambers, the single action trigger isn't really a threat for discharge when the rifle is stowed. Sounds super fast to 'deploy,' too (and from a sheath-like holster, no less )

TCB

 

[kid_couteau]

Hi
Stock angle makes it line up right for me
Kid

 

[chicharrones]

"Didn't Beretta make a .22 auto pistol that could be had with a shoulder stock??
Neos maybe??... something like that."
I believe the Neos carbine was an air rifle, but they did make a pistol version in 22LR. Ugly as sin but supposedly a pretty good handgun.

Definitely a firearm. It's just very hard to find the carbine kits out there to turn a Neos pistol into a rifle.

 

[chicharrones]

Since a takedown barrel would be fairly hard to work on that gun, and since the cylinder already adds some width, my expectation would be to have a sliding "H&K-style" wire stock of 10" or as needed to get to 26" overall situated on either side above the barrel (would slide along the barrel) . . .

That's exactly what I was thinking, too. If I didn't already have other projects in line, I'd think of joining in the fun and make one up myself.

 

[barnbwt]

Any opinions on caliber; 22LR, 22mag, or 17HMR?