Paper cartridges?

[ottsm]

I've made my own paper cartridges before using cigaret paper for my ROA. I had trouble sometimes with ignition. The paper when ramming in the bullet would maintain its form and the caps didn't seem to want to burn a hole through the paper or I would get a slight delayed reaction which would through my aim off.

I found a web page that sells magician flash paper, anyone try to use this? I was thinking that it might be too easy to ignite and could be a safety concern but any paper cartridge would have a similar potential. Without being in a barrel the pressure can't build.

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

As I recall flash paper is nitrocellulose, which is a rather unstable material (you can snap it between your fingers dnd POOF!) could ignite your bp charge when you did not wish it to do so. NITRATED cig papers should work fine. Plenty of dyi stuff here and on other forums on how to nitrate paper. The last time I bought papers they were $3/100, or about 3 cents each. You might go to Sally beauty supply and snag some hair curling papers at about $3 per 1000. Some people swear by teabags. Others just make their paper cartridges before hand and tear the end of the paper, dump in the powder, followed by the paper, then ball, etc.

 

[BowerR64]

I tried it when i first started here is a few things that i did.

I also had the same problems you did with some being delayed or not going off. This is kinda scary becasue how do you know there isnt smoldering paper and it goes off when your about to set it down or something. I had to bad of thoughts with paper and embers so i ditched the paper.

I started with double twists on mine. Like candy rolled up and twisted on each end. I also tried twisting the ball in with the charge.

I found them not accurate also another reason i ditched the paper cartridges. I found my compression not consistant with the paper wich i think may of been the accuracy problems.

Before i stopped using paper my last and best way using them was just before i put the charge in i ripped the twist off the end i was inserting into the chamber. This let some of the powder dump out and created a sort of pan charge like flint locks. A few times when inserting the charge all the powder would dump out and i just used the paper as a wad.

The system im using now im happy with. Its accurate, its clean, and im not spending any extra money on supplies. Its about the same as paper but more accurate, reusable and to me a little more safe then the worry of burning paper hanging around.

This is how another member who shoots compitition


Tube and double ball idea

This was the transition stage from the paper to the tubes.

Once the system is down your equipment needed starts to really slim down.

 

[hillbilly matt]

Bower what am i looking at here? plastidip tubes..... do you dip them yourself or something or what? they look like they would be handy.

 

[forward observer]

You are correct that flash paper is a form of nitrocellulose, but it is one of the more stable and safe forms.

Since one of my hobbies is magic and I work part time in a magic shop, I am very familiar with stage flash paper. We sell it in 9 by 10 inch sheets for $2.50 per sheet. It is quite safe if kept away from extreme heat or flame. In other words, it is no more dangerous or combustible than the black powder you are using in the pistol.

It has the thickness and strength of the kind of tissue paper that one uses inside gift boxes--maybe just a bit stronger and certainly stronger than cigarette paper.

The advantage is that it is completely consumed when burned leaving no ash what so ever.

Although I never used it for pistols, I have used it to make combustible powder bags for small scale cannon and I got the idea from an article written up in some muzzle loader magazine years ago. The article I read at that time was describing to make combustible cartridges for use in percussion revolvers--to actually resemble those that were made commercially back in the mid 19th century.

Several of my small scale cannons are large and heavy enough that lifting up the barrels and carriages to load black powder like one would do with a rifle is a bit cumbersome. Making small powder bags that I could simply insert in the bore and ram home from a horizontal position solved the issue.

There are several tutorials floating around the net using nothing more than standard cigarette paper, but they all have the disadvantage of possibly leaving some unburned paper behind.

However, I found this post on another forum describing how to do it with cigarette papers that have first been soaked in potassium nitrate (saltpeter).

I am assuming that this also causes the paper to be completely consumed, so if one does not have access to flash paper, this would probably work as well, but does have the disadvantage of having the extra step of soaking and drying out the papers before use.

http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/?topic=326.0

Generally, the paper part of cartridge is constructed in a tapered cone shape so that when the cartridge is seated, the paper shell breaks open inside the chamber exposing the black powder to the flash from the cap. If using flash paper, the cap would probably ignite it anyway, but I don't know about the paper treated with potassium nitrate.

Cheers

 

[4v50 Gary]

Try ZigZag or similar cigarette paper.

 

[Foto Joe]

I use Buglers and simply tear the end off before stuffing it in the hole. I don't use paper cartridges much anymore unless I want to take the bike to the range and not haul my "stuff".

 

[BowerR64]

Bower what am i looking at here? plastidip tubes..... do you dip them yourself or something or what? they look like they would be handy.

Yeah thats kinda what they are i think. Thread protectors i think is what they are made for i believe. I dont make them i got them from another black powder site. They are handy

I use Buglers and simply tear the end off before stuffing it in the hole. I don't use paper cartridges much anymore unless I want to take the bike to the range and not haul my "stuff".

Yeah i found buglers to be the best also they have the most per pack and i found them the cheapest.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I will never understand why folks want to make paper cartridges for C&B revolvers. The beauty of a C&B is that it frees you from making cartridges in advance. If I am going shooting with any of my cartridge revolvers I have to make sure I have made up enough ammo in advance. If I want to shoot C&B I just bring power, balls, and caps to the range. No preparation necessary. So much simpler.

 

[rodwha]

Most of my friends have been put off by how long it takes to shoot another 6 rounds. It certainly helps keep other's attention a little longer.

I enjoy a form a speed loading so that I can get in more shooting, especially when I'm with others. Not many others care to spend as long as I'm willing to spend.

Another good thing about any form of pre made cartridge is that when hunting a reload doesn't require a pouch full of goodies. I can also get really accurate by weighing my charges for hunting if I care to.

I do enjoy loading everything by hand as well.

 

[irish plumber]

completely agree with you D J

 

[BowerR64]

I went and shot today this is all i took

I think it was a high of like 20° here today.

 

[ottsm]

I enjoy trying different things from time to time. I will agree that it isnt that hard to just load on the spot and I've gotten pretty fast at it. Guess its no different than trying a new set of sights or a new powder flask.

 

[BowerR64]

There isnt anything wrong with doing it either way.

To me the fun of it is doing it. Putting it all together pulling the trigger and hitting the target.

When you hear so many say "i dont care for black powder... i dont know why i just dont like it" and they can see how accurate they are they give it a second look.

 

[Foto Joe]

I will never understand why folks want to make paper cartridges for C&B revolvers.

Some want the ultimate historical experience I suppose, I personally keep some paper cartridges loaded simply because I ride a motorcycle. Should I be in Texas for instance where it's common to have to drive 25+ miles just to go shooting and I don't want to drive my truck (Freightliner) then it's a lot easier to only have to take the gun and a box of cartridges with a capper in my pocket. The little buggers are handy as long as you don't mind having to sit in front of the TV rolling 'em.

http://youtu.be/0G2zFzaDXxc

 

[BowerR64]

Some want the ultimate historical experience I suppose, I personally keep some paper cartridges loaded simply because I ride a motorcycle. Should I be in Texas for instance where it's common to have to drive 25+ miles just to go shooting and I don't want to drive my truck (Freightliner) then it's a lot easier to only have to take the gun and a box of cartridges with a capper in my pocket. The little buggers are handy as long as you don't mind having to sit in front of the TV rolling 'em.

http://youtu.be/0G2zFzaDXxc

Thats what i do when i clean mine. I like watching 3 hours of football when i clean mine.

I got pretty good at twisting the papers after a while.

Soon im going to start weighing my preloads. Im going to use my little volume scoop and dump it on a scale and weigh it and then start preloading my tubes by weight insted of the empty brass im using now to measure them.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Some want the ultimate historical experience I suppose

There is nothing 'ultimately unhistorical' about loading loose powder from a flask, ramming in the balls and capping it without using paper cartridges. That is he way it was usually done.

 

[forward observer]

There is nothing 'ultimately unhistorical' about loading loose powder from a flask, ramming in the balls and capping it without using paper cartridges. That is he way it was usually done.

Nobody said that it was ahistorical to load with loose powder and ball. It's just that it was done both ways, and ultimately doing it with preloaded combustible paper cartridges can be expedient, convenient, and possibly safer while at the range. For the historical re-enactor types, it also in some cases lends an extra air of authenticity.

---and I'm pretty sure that the Union army arsenals and ordinance boards which manufactured and purchased 10's or maybe even 100's of thousands of combustible cartridges for use by the troops during the ACW obviously thought it was a good idea too.

Samuel Colt actually filed a patent on a combustible paper cartridge for his pistols and selling them plus the rights to make them to the Union army was another source of income.

While the modern black powder enthusiast has the freedom to take their time reloading in the field, this was not the always the case for the military nor was it the case for those who's lives depended on being able to reload their percussion revolvers quickly.

Just some food for thought.

Cheers

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Nobody said that it was ahistorical to load with loose powder and ball. It's just that it was done both ways, and ultimately doing it with preloaded combustible paper cartridges can be expedient, convenient, and possibly safer while at the range. For the historical re-enactor types, it also in some cases lends an extra air of authenticity.

Howdy Again

The statement was "Some want the ultimate historical experience I suppose, I personally keep some paper cartridges loaded simply because I ride a motorcycle."

My contention is that there is nothing 'ultimately unhistorical' about loading with loose powder, and there is nothing more 'ultimately historical' about making up paper cartridges.

I can tell you for a fact that at a CAS match I have never seen anybody using paper cartridges. Everybody who shoots C&B at a CAS match, myself included, simply loads loose powder from a flask and rams in the ball. Most clubs allow this to be done at your cart, away from the loading table, then the nipples are capped at the loading table. No capping until you reach the loading table. The reason is simple, as I stated before, no bothering making up cartridges in advance, we have plenty of other cartridges to make up for our rifles and shotguns, and loading metallic BP cartridges takes up more time than loading Smokeless. So it's a luxury to be able to ignore making up paper cartridges ahead of time at home and just load up from the flask at the match.

I also have never used one of those cylinder loading gizmos, the lever under the barrel has always served me fine.

I will however add that sometimes funny things happen. We were all rolling on the ground laughing when one C&B shooter in my posse a few years ago forgot to add the balls. He had loaded powder and fiber wads, but forgotten to seat balls in one of his pistols. When he pulled that one, instead of a nice boom he got kind of a pop and we could see some of his wads striking the targets. Probably if he had been using pre-made cartridges, he would not have forgotten the balls.

Oh well, I have probably raised enough hackles on this thread that I will attempt keep my mouth shut now.

 

[rodwha]

"Oh well, I have probably raised enough hackles on this thread that I will attempt keep my mouth shut now."

Ah phoey!

Ultimately I thinks it's great that we all have found enjoyment in the use of this old fangled technology. And what matters most is that we don't get overly devisive (spl?) and do what we can to keep it going. I enjoy both ends of the spectrum (historical/modern).

I didn't begin this with a historical attitude, but have found myself drawn to the history of it. There are far too many makes for me to afford!!!

 

[Nickel Plated]

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_100_359

BTW here's a link to some of those rubber tubes for reloading. I plan to buy those for my Colt Army. Tried using paper cartridges. But they're more hassle than they're worth to roll. And trying to make them quickly enough to be worth the time savings means they rarely come out the right size. Then they don't fit in the cylinder. I try to cram them in and the paper rips and the powder spills and it's just a huge mess and waste of time.

Those plastic ones look like a nice option until I get a cartridge conversion.

 

[BowerR64]

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_100_359

BTW here's a link to some of those rubber tubes for reloading. I plan to buy those for my Colt Army. Tried using paper cartridges. But they're more hassle than they're worth to roll. And trying to make them quickly enough to be worth the time savings means they rarely come out the right size. Then they don't fit in the cylinder. I try to cram them in and the paper rips and the powder spills and it's just a huge mess and waste of time.

Those plastic ones look like a nice option until I get a cartridge conversion.

Does dixie have them back in stock?

 

[Nickel Plated]

Someone actually PMed me yesterday to point out that Dixie is Out of Stock on those. I didn't realize when I posted the link since Dixie feels you don't need to know until you actually add them to the cart.

I'm going to try to make some of the basic rubber ones that you jsut cap off by shoving a bullet over the powder charge. Looks like you can just dip the tip of an appropriately sized rod into some PlastDip and peel off your speedloader when it dries. I'll be giving it a shot when I can find some PlastiDip.

 

[Foto Joe]

Dixie feels you don't need to know until you actually add them to the cart.

I had that happen on a web site for a NY gun shop a few months ago. They had the mold that I wanted so I put together some other stuff to make it worth my while and didn't find out that half of it was on back order, including the mold, until I was ready to enter the CC info.

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

Historically speaking, the Military Board of Texas in 1862 authorized a cartridge and percussion cap production facility that made 7000 rounds per day on the capital grounds for the Confederacy and was in operation throughout the ACW.