Para Ord 12-45 Suggestion Before I Buy

[rjohnson4405]

Looking to pick up a Para Ord 12-45 3.5 inch barrel SS for my first concealed carry (and handgun in general).

I'm looking for advice/knowledge about it. It's used but I have a relationship with the owner and will look over it before I buy.

Are mags still available, AKA will it take current Para double-stack mags and are they reasonably price (under $30)?

I think they have discontinued this particular model but have similar models still in production (Carry 12).

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,
rjohnson4405

 

[Conqueror]

Sub-4" 1911s are notorious for problems. For everyone with a good experience, there is someone with a bad experience. I recommend their Commander-length gun, not the Officer-length one.

In general though, Para Ordnance makes excellent guns. I had one of their 5" SAs and was very pleased for an entry level (~$600) 1911. Their LDA system is very good as well, if that's what you're considering.

 

[rjohnson4405]

Conqueror - thanks for the reply. I have heard about reliability issues with shorter barrel 1911s, but I was hoping they got most worked out, plus it's a good deal being used. Also, I have tried and don't really like the LDA trigger, especially when a good Single Action is available. Cocked and locked doesn't bother me.

Thanks! Keep the replies coming.

 

[mister2]

it's a good deal being used

With all due respect, did you hear the words "Caveat Emptor" from above, as you were typing this? There may be a reason it's "discount-priced", that's not necessarily a "good deal".

Short 1911s in general, and this pistol in particular, are favorites in the "worst gun" lists. This is an observation, not a judgement.

It's your money, your decision.

Good Luck!

 

[Tom Fury]

P-12 purchase

I am one of those who has had nothing but good experiences with the P-12 (a lightweight and a steel frame) and three Officers' model Colts and a custom built OM. No horrific experiences and I would buy/build another tomorrow.
That said, There is a mod that I always have done that makes me feel better, anyway: Any qualified gunsmith can do it, but because they are the suppliers of the parts needed, I will mention Kings' Gun Works, EGW, Ed Brown or Wilson Combat.

The mod has three steps;
1. Replace the recoil spring plug provided (held in by a small tab that fits in notch on dust cover) with full flange reverse plug and full length guide rod; Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Kings and EGW make parts for this. This will involve filing down the back of the dust cover to the depth of the flange: EGW uses a collar system cut with a mill.

2. Replace stock bushing with match bushing, which will require fitting.

3. Barrel to be turned to match inner dia of bushing.

Can't mix and match much on this, as width of flange is somewhat matched with thickness of match bushing. Kings' is probably strongest, EGW has better contour match with slide (s'purtier) WC and EB used to market a bushing to go with their replacement guide rod set; EB claimed his was stronger than stock. (Required some fitting).

Match bushing and barrel fit should help accuracy too, though I never had a bad experience that way either. Its' just that the stock plug has some reputation for weakness in the one tab.

Yeah, I Know there are many that say don't trust anything shorter than a Commander; I don't agree with them.

Think about: Smith and Alexander mag well for PO: P12 is just a bit shorter than OM length grip. I Have always liked the way the gun feels with this heel only style mag well to give a bit more of length at the back, while being no longer than the grip is with mag in place. It just fills in the area behind the basepad and spreads gripping surface a little better over the meat of your hand. No longer than OM.

Real PO High caps are still available; I used to like to swithch out the mag springs with Wolffs too. I have seen them for around $40.00. Another option (if you're going to change the springs anyway), is to buy tubes (maybe P-13,14?) from Dawson Precision and rebuild your mags.

Cheers, TF

 

[Tom Fury]

P-12 purchase

I am one of those who has had nothing but good experiences with the P-12 (a lightweight and a steel frame) and three Officers' model Colts and a custom built OM. No horrific experiences and I would buy/build another tomorrow.
That said, There is a mod that I always have done that makes me feel better, anyway: Any qualified gunsmith can do it, but because they are the suppliers of the parts needed, I will mention Kings' Gun Works EGW, Ed Brown or Wilson Combat.

The mod has three steps;
1. Replace the recoil spring plug provided (held in by a small tab that fits in notch on dust cover with full flange reverse plug and full length guide rod; Wilson Combat, Ed Brown, Kings and EGW make parts for this. This will involve filing down the back of the dust cover to the depth of the flange: EGW uses a collar system cut with a mill.

2. Replace stock bushing with match bushing, which will require fitting and barrel to be turned to match inner dia of bushing.

Can't mix and match much on this, as width of flange is somewhat matched with thickness of match bushing. Kings' is probably strongest, EGW has better contour match with slide (s'purtier) WC and EB used to market a bushing to go with their replacement guide rod set; EB claimed his was stronger than stock.

Match bushing and barrel fit should help accuracy too, though I never had a bad experience that way either. Its' just that the stock plug has some reputation for weakness in the one tab.

Yeah, I Know there are many that say don't trust anything shorter than a Commander; I don't agree with them.

Think about: Smith and Alexander mag well for PO: P12 is just a bit shorter than OM length grip. I Have always liked the way the gun feels with this heel only style mag well to give a bit more of length at the back, while being no longer than the grip is with mag in place. It just fills in the area behind the basepad and spreads gripping surface a little better over the meat of your hand. No longer than OM.

Real PO High caps are still available; I used to like to swithch out the mag springs with Wolffs too. I have seen them for around $40.00. Another option (if you're going to change the springs anyway), is to buy tubes (maybe P-13,14?) from Dawson Precision and rebuild your mags.

Cheers, TF

 

[1KPerDay]

I suggest you actually strap it to your hip and walk around for a while before buying, if possible. the Para double-stack frame is pretty bulky for a CCW piece. Heck, I have trouble even with the single-stack 1911s. YMMV

 

[rjohnson4405]

Thanks guys, I will surely hold a couple while I'm up there. My current thoughts are RIA 1911 Tactical Commander length, Sig 239 (Refurb), and J-Frame Airweight w/ CT besides the Para mentioned above. Maybe I should stick with one of these more proven designs.

 

[Jackal]

I had a P-12 with the alloy frame. I had nothing but great results with it. Accurate, quite reliable and 12rd capacity make it a super handgun. However, it was a bit thick for summer ccw, but winter ccw with a puffy coat was no prob.

 

[SKM&P9]

+ 1 on 1Kperday's advice. See if he'll let you carry it for a trial run, that might help you decide. You might want to consider a good shoulder holster, will help to take off some of the load on the belt.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Get a Colt New Agent or Defender My experiance with Para was horrorable . Bot my agent and defender have been perfect and weight less also. Kimber has a relieable Compact also

 

[1911 guy]

Two things. First, it's a sawed off abortion resembling a 1911. Second, it's a Para Ordnance. I thought you said you wanted a gun, not a hunk of scrap metal.

Run hard, run fast, don't look back. Buy a Colt, Kimber, Springfield, RIA, whatever. Just don't buy a Lorcin, Llama or Para Ordnance.

 

[sinistr]

im not very knowledgeable on 1911's,but i have bought paras on two seperate occasions and sold them both after spending money trying to make them relieable.it might have just been bad luck,but i would go with something else if i was staking my life on it.

 

[wally]

If you can shoot it first and it works buy it! Good ones are great, bad ones are awful. 99+% of the battle is getting good mags.

I'm with sinistr, wouldn't trust my life to my double stack .45s that use the Para mag tubes -- problem is the mags, doesn't take much dirt/fouling to make the rounds bind at the double to single stack transition causing feed failures. Lighter bullets (200gr and less) and stronger Wolff mag springs help but, I restrict mine to range use and want 230gr for SD usage.

--wally.

 

[berettashotgun]

My (wifes) P-12 alloy frame blued model has never EVER had a FTF - ever..
Shoot 185gr in it, and hold it like we mean it, come to think of it, the only trouble I ever had with a 1911 was with a Kimber.
As far as a carry piece, it is rather bulky, just measure it, same size as a beretta 84/85 or cougar, just a little wider BUT packing magnitudes of help.
A small 9 is a much better choice for summer CC IMHO.
BUT, I always grab the P-12 or P-13 for the other three season wear.
The LDA trigger works great, just getting used to it was a chore, about $275 worth of ammo at the old prices ($8 per box of 50) + tax.