Parkinson's disease

[4v50 Gary]

So a fellow needed bore sighting and I pulled out my ancient collinator and got him paper. He did some adjustments and I thought we got it sighted in. Nice cloverleaf. Then at 100 yards it opens up. He has Parkinson's disease and after a while gets shaky.

I suggested that he gets a 22 lr and practice with that.

Any suggestions or experience?

 

[jmr40]

This might be one for him to discuss with a doctor or physical therapist. There may be some meds or therapy techniques available to temporarily reduce the shakes. At least at the early stages. I simply don't know enough about the disease.

 

[entropy]

This might be one for him to discuss with a doctor or physical therapist. There may be some meds or therapy techniques available to temporarily reduce the shakes. At least at the early stages. I simply don't know enough about the disease.

A hunting (standing) bipod of the type used on safaris might be an option for him to consider.

 

[Charlie Horse]

That's a tough one. I watched it kill my grandfather over 9 1\2 years. As I'm sure you already know, it only progresses, and the best we can do is slow it down and alleviate some of the symptoms. It's good that he feels like shooting and hasn't given in to it. As the disease progresses, he will become shakier, weaker, and his periods of strength will become shorter. The .22lr is probably as good as it gets, since recoil wouldn't be an issue. Recoil of course equates to fatigue and in the extreme can mean loss of control of the rifle.

I ran this by my mother since one of her specialties is geriatrics and she agreed, along with the maxim of all nursing "tell him to see his doc and take his meds." If i come across anything better, I'l post it.

 

[Sniper66]

He is the best person to ask if you can help. If he says no, leave him alone. I have a progressive disorder that gets worse with age and it's a constant challenge to adjust to the changes. You can mostly just treat him like you would any good friend__with respect and caring, but never sympathy. I know my limits better than anyone and I never complain. I might cuss a bit when my hands don't do what I tell them to. But, with my own unique adaptations I can still hit a squirrel's eye. In fact, I'm going tomorrow morning to do just that. Your friend will know you care when you can accept him the way he is.

 

[oldandslow]

gary,

Parkinson's disease has several features. First there is slowness of movement, a tremor at rest (which diminishes with intentional movement) and often poor balance (postural instability). Many of the symptoms can be controlled by meds but the person often becomes resistant to the meds over time. Over time the disease worsens despite the meds.

My dad had a wicked case of PD. When his disease was at a moderate level I took him shooting for one last time with a 1911 .45acp ( the same pistol he had trained with in his 24 year career with the old Navy). When intentionally aiming the pistol his severe tremor diminished to almost nothing and he was able to shoot quite well at targets at 10-15 yards. He did tire easily so we called it good after about fifteen minutes of shooting. He eventually died of the disease at age 80.

So the key to successful shooting with PD is to recognize the limitations and have someone else around to help with any problems that may arise.

best wishes- oldandslow

 

[boom boom]

gary,

Parkinson's disease has several features. First there is slowness of movement, a tremor at rest (which diminishes with intentional movement) and often poor balance (postural instability). Many of the symptoms can be controlled by meds but the person often becomes resistant to the meds over time. Over time the disease worsens despite the meds.

My dad had a wicked case of PD. When his disease was at a moderate level I took him shooting for one last time with a 1911 .45acp ( the same pistol he had trained with in his 24 year career with the old Navy). When intentionally aiming the pistol his severe tremor diminished to almost nothing and he was able to shoot quite well at targets at 10-15 yards. He did tire easily so we called it good after about fifteen minutes of shooting. He eventually died of the disease at age 80.

So the key to successful shooting with PD is to recognize the limitations and have someone else around to help with any problems that may arise.

best wishes- oldandslow

Not to raise false hope but it is also possible to be misdiagnosed depending on the skill level of the doctors. Happened with my father-in-law and the drugs prescribed by an underqualified doctor to combat the alleged Parkinsons caused other problems--we took him across the country to a clinic specializing in this and other motion disorders and they proposed that he did not have Parkinson's but that the tremors and balance issues were a side effect of a heart medication made worse with the combination of the Parkinson's drug. Took six month to be sure but he is off both the heart medication and parkinsons drug and exhibiting no problems for a year now. His mental confusion also disappeared. We have had similar problems in the past with doctors prescribing pills that were not appropriate for individuals who had his type of heart problems.

In any specialized condition, if able, I would go to nationally recognized clinics for a second opinion. Unfortunately, overmedication and inappropriate medications can often mimic different disease symptoms--it is wise to consult a pharmacist on a regular basis about these.

 

[4v50 Gary]

His doctor diagnosed him.

I had him shoot from a bench with a block of wood and a blanket as a rest.

 

[hso]

I suggested that he gets a 22 lr and practice with that.

It isn't like practice will improve his accuracy if he has Parkinson's. Adding weight to the rifle to dampen the tremors might help.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Thanks.

 

[rskent]

My wife does best with a big Smith and Wesson 629. A big heavy gun with light 44 special loads.

The big gun is easier for her to keep steady. I know it’s not a rifle but the concept would be the same.

 

[alsaqr]

Not to raise false hope but it is also possible to be misdiagnosed depending on the skill level of the doctors.

This!!!!

My dad was misdiagnosed: Quack doctor said he had Parkinson's. Informed the doctor that dad's mother had the shakes, ditto for his grandmother. But the doctor started treating him for Parkinsons. Dad went to the doctors at a major university: No Parkinson's and no awful Parkinsons meds. Dad did well, hunted until 85 years old and lived to 90.

 

[hdwhit]

Okay, this is kind of a long shot, but check this out:
https://www.liftware.com/
It is a stabilized spoon for people with Parkinson's disease and other disorders that cause tremors. It seems that the mechanism in the spoon could be readily adapted to an add-on grip that would stabilize the gun in the trembling hand.

You might want to suggest this to Liftware as a way to expand their technology into new markets not to mention that anything that is associated with "guns" automatically acquires a price premium so that they could significantly grow their revenue.

 

[Captcurt]

I shot skeet and dove with a man who had Parkinson's. It took him a while to get his feet set on the skeet range, but when he yelled pull the bird usually broke. Not always maybe 50%-60% of the time. On a good day he would 70%. The man had a heart as big as all outdoors. When he got so bad that he couldn't walk we put him on a ATV. He drove to the side of the dove field and shot at doves. Then we picked him up and set back into the truck

I admire a person who has heart like that. They take the life that they were given and make the most of it. I don't know what I would do under those circumstances. The man that the OP was dealing with knows more about his capabilities than we do. If he is happy shooting a rifle I am sure that he will find a way.

 

[Schwing]

I suffer from a condition known as "Essential tremor". Mine is mostly in my hands (great for shooting and in my voice box. One thing I have picked up on over the years is that I actually struggle more with LIGHT objects than I do with heavier objects. Doing research and talking to other folks with the problem has taught me that I am not the only one that experiences this and a couple of people I know with Parkinsons say they experience this as well.

It sounds counter-intuitive but he may want to try shooting with HEAVIER firearms to see if that helps steady him up a bit. It may shorten your range trips but I have found it to be a complete waste of time to throw ammo down range on a shaky day. A couple of other options that would need to be discussed with his doctor are certain medications like beta-blockers, anti-seizure medications like gapapentine and even short acting anti-anxiety meds like clonazepam and even Valium. They help to minimize the shaking but they make you drowsy so he would have to get a feel for whether he can safely use them while shooting.

While I am very grateful my problem is not life threatening, I can certainly sympathize with the shaking part of it. There is nothing more frustrating than scheduling a day at the range and being so shaky that it is a waste of time.

 

[doubleh]

I have essential tremors. It's not fun and the neurologist I first went to told me it gets worse with age and no cure. So far he has been right. Folic acid helps with the early stages. I'm now taking primidone and it has been a big help. I can usually write where it's readable and don't spill too much of my food anymore. One thing I have found is that the tireder I get the worse I shake. Mornings are better than afternoons obviously. Weight doesn't do much for me except turn the wiggle into a wobble. The best thing I can do is relax. If I strain to stop shaking the tremor just gets worse.

I would suggest seeing a neurologist. According to the one I go to there are only two medications that will help with tremors. One slows your heart rate as a side effect but primidone does not. It has been around for about a hundred years according to my doctor and it's side effects are well known and it is considered to be a safe drug. Another plus is that it is dirt cheap.

Parkinson's disease is an entirely breed of cat than essential tremors. My dad suffered from Parkinsion's in his latter years. It progressed to where my mother had to feed him. That's been many years ago and maybe some progress has been made in treating it since then.

 

[CyanWestley]

As my uncle says, parkinsons is a whole learning experience and sometimes feels like a full-time job with other needs being worked into it. To alleviate the effects, he moves the affected part at right-angles to the tremor. If he places his hand palm down on a table, the usual tremor is up and down. He then reduces the tremor by moving his hand left and right. Conversely, stress makes the tremor much worse. If he has no time constraints, he can solder micro-electronic circuits, albeit slowly, by waiting for a right-angled movement to create a few seconds with no tremor. Might help with shooting too.

 

[BigBore44]

My father, brother, and I, all “suffer” from what is called Familial Tremors. Flat head screwdrivers and us do not get along....at all. My father was a police and SWAT officer for 25 years has been prescribed Propananol for as long as I can remember and still shakes like a leaf on a tree on a windy day. But that man can flat shoot. It’s actially quite amazing so see the barrel of his handgun shaking so badly. You’d think there’s no way on God’s green earth he could hit the backstop much less the target. But he can. In fact I’ll post a picture of his last range target at 20 yards with his G35. When I’d ask him how he could shoot so well in spite of his shakes he just says that he times the shake to his trigger pull. I don’t even know how it’s possible. I’m serious. He shakes BAD.

My brother and I don’t have it as bad, but we still have it. Especially on exertion. He is also an officer and SWAT member.

I can’t take BP medication because it would cause me to become hypotensive. And I’m not a big fan of medication to begin with with. The only thing I ever found that alleviated my symptoms was a green leave substance that recently became legal in states like Colorado. And seeing as how I’m a law abiding citizen, I haven’t touched it in over 15 years. So I just deal with it. Caliber of the firearm I’m shooting doesn’t incrementally coincide with the magnitude of my tremors. So I just deal with it. And I’m a decent shot.

I would recommend your friend simply practice proper breathing technique while shooting. Parkinson’s is a progressively debilitating disease. So allow him to enjoy it while he can. And if he happens to live in one of those “legal” states, you might suggest CBD oil.

**I am NOT an advocate for legalization. But I do recognize it’s benifits for certain people.**

 

[Ignition Override]

A guy in our church (age 61) was just diagnosed, and only has a symptom which nobody else can notice. We never see it.

He meets with Parkinson's patients for some "shadow boxing class", maybe some actual jabbing etc, which seems to help their coordination or other movements.

 

[doubleh]

CBD oil is not illegal------yet, although I have read where the feds are considering making it that way. You can buy it on ebay and it's available in a lot of places in this area. Just walk in and get it off the shelf.

Propananol is the other drug besides primidone for tremors. It slows your heart rate.

 

[Schwing]

CBD oil is not illegal------yet, although I have read where the feds are considering making it that way. You can buy it on ebay and it's available in a lot of places in this area. Just walk in and get it off the shelf.

Propananol is the other drug besides primidone for tremors. It slows your heart rate.

Propranolol is the beta blocker that was prescribed for me and it works very well in controlling my shaking. It was actually prescribed for a severe heart arrhythmia that I have and controlling the tremors was a happy and desirable side effect.

While not really applicable here, it is interesting that it is often prescribed to people who suffer from severe stage fright. It doesn't do a thing to remove the mental aspect of the fear but it eliminates the shaking (especially in the hands and voice box) that people with severe stage fright experience.

 

[J-Bar]

A comment on doctors and second opinions...


Good doctors focus on what is best for the patient, not on the infallibility of their own diagnosis. Good doctors welcome second opinions from other good doctors. If a patient gets a “bad” diagnosis, confirm it with a second opinion from an expert in the field. If your doctor objects to getting a second opinion, get another doctor (applies to pets and veterinarians also).

...the viewpoint of a retired veterinarian with 25 years private practice experience...

 

[george burns]

My neighboors are Nurses, and one has it bad, he is now on dissability, but had the implant instlled from the brain down the neck into the vertibre. The unit is internal and the controller is in his hip. If you ever watch "Ray Donovan", the TV show, it's the same thing Terry got in the show. Tim, "my neihghboor moved back to Indiana last month, because all of his family including the Doctor he trusts are back there. He was travelling 3 hours here in South Fl, to get an adjustment. They hook another controller onto it magnetically and can dial down the shakes.
It won't last forever, but usually Parkinsons patients don't either, especially at 60 yrs old. He got it a few yrs ago, and this really enabled him to a fairly normal life, as far as driving eating etc, he was shaking so bad, he had given all his hobbies up.
The first thing he did was to buy a new Corvette, said "once more before I go" it's sad, but that's the way my year has gone, lost a friend of 55 years during the last hurricane, Cops found him dead in front of the TV, I called for a welfare Check. And my 96 yr old mother has full blown Dimentia, came on in less than 3 months, and within a year she doesn't know anything anymore. But this I can accept as she did get over 90 yrs of good healthy life.
Shooting would be very dangerous as this progresses unless he gets the implant, I know it's about 100 thousand dollars, but good insurance will cover most of it. When these shakes get bad, there is no way you should be holding a firearm.
One thing to know is that the surgery is not reversable, they drill into the skull, but it works and the shakes go away, the problem is, like anything else the body adjusts, and they have to keep fine tuning it, and at some point it will no longer function. But even if you get 10-12 years it is worth it, because by then, who knows what they can do.

 

[JTHunter]

4v50 - PD contributed to my father's death at 79 and he first started showing symptoms over 20 years before. There was a program known as "deep brain stimulation" that is supposed to work in fashion similar to a pacemaker for the heart. You might want to check that out or suggest it to your friend.
We tried to get him in the program as it was being tested at the University of Tampa early last decade and he was living in southern Florida at the time. Their problem with him is that he was already past 70 which they felt was "too old".

 

[olafhardtB]

Propanolol was suscribed to me for essential tremor, I was checked more than once for parkinsons which I don't have yet. Any veteran with Parkinsons that ever stepped foot in Viet Nam may well be elegible for VA service connected disability payments as part of the agent orange mess. The same is true of type 2 diabetes. Propanolol apparently is often effective treating PTSD and it also seems to affect memory. If any of this piques your couriosity google it.