Parts built 1911

[kimbernut]

My first parts built 1911 is finished except for finishing the slide. All standard safety checks that I am aware of have been run and passed. Any other advice/checklists I need to go over before the first live round is put down range,guys/gals,I'd surely appreciate them?

 

[Steve F]

Just a stab in the dark,but maybe a primed"only" case just to get a feel for the strike on the primer

 

[dfariswheel]

I'd suggest loading ONE round, fire it, strip and inspect everything for any damage.

Next, load TWO rounds and fire.

After that, load a full magazine and fire slowly, then strip and inspect again.

Then fire one magazine rapid fire and inspect.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

Some say leave the magazine out for that first shot -

Some say leave the magazine out for that first shot - in fact you can find that advice in other threads currently on this board. Others point out that some grips offer more protection than others - Pachmayr's with a metal plate will save picking splinters but may have their own issues.

Always possible to make that first shot in a Ransom Rest as well.

My own practice is very much to make the first string with a magazine in the pistol a live round and a snap cap - much nicer to have the hammer follow on a snap cap.

 

[stans]

Snap cap or a dummy round for the second round in the mag. After you fire the pistol with just one live round in it a few times, load up two rounds, then three, then a full mag. Go slow and stop at the first signs of trouble. Always worked for me and I still have all eleven fingers!

 

[kimbernut]

1911 maiden voyage

Thanks,guys. I'm inclined for the snap cap/dummy round second in the mag. No mag seems the same as the slide slamming on an empty chamber-doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I'll give a report of the range session Monday. Thanks,again,all.

 

[Dave Sample]

Interesting comments. Why in the world would you want a dummy round in second place? You need to know if the slide will lock back after the first shot.

 

[kimbernut]

Thanks,Dave

Thanks,Dave,I was hoping both you and Tuner would jump in here but I understand he's off line for a little while.
I would think that during the initial single cartridge testing a dummy round would be a good idea to let you know that second cartridge pickup and chambering is in fact taking place.Slide lock after first cartridge could be tried first followed by the live/dummy test - the sequence here really shouldn't matter but both would be good before proceeding to two live cartridges and beyond.
I know to look for peening and slide lock damage upon field strip and check but what else should I be looking for ?

 

[Dave Sample]

It can't hurt, but The Second Test with two rounds in the magazine will tell you that. Here is the drill we have used on about 75 student guns. Load a magazine with one round. Insert it in the magazine well. Drop the slide with the slide stop. Fire one round. If that works, repeat with two rounds. If that goes well and it doesn't double ot the hammer does not go to half cock, load eight rounds and slow fire it until the slide locks back.
Look at the barrel hood and the lower lugs for anything that looks unusual. Look for white marks anywhere in the barrel system. If you smoke it up with a Blue Marker, you can tell a lot more as you shoot it in. Remember RULE TWO:" Your Blue Pen is your Best Friend." Good Luck and Good Shooting! (John Taffin)

 

[kimbernut]

Good (although brief) test range session Saturday.Tested with a Wilson shok-buf in place.Firing handloads of 200gr.RNLeadLaserCast with 5.0 and5.2 gr.bullseye @ 1.200 OAL.Targets placed @ 25 meters.First firing of one cartridge was uneventful.Tried another-POI @ 2" from first.Fired two magazines of two cartridges each with very light scratches noticable at 2 o'clock position in the bluing of the barrel hood.Group for the 6 rounds now at 3.5". Two magazines of 8 rounds fired slow fire with the group averaging 5" discounting the couple of flyers. The light scratching in the blueing on the barrel hood showed more. One final magazine of eight rounds fired rapid fire with a resulting 8" group. On examination during field strip:The shock-buf shows a good strike imprint. The scratches on the barrel hood appeared to be in bluing only.All signs of scratches were removed with 400 W/Dpaper.The slide lock pin shows the bluing removed at the center where it is encircled by the link.On either side of the link ring are shiny marks where the bluing is removed at the point where the lug tips are making contact.The lug tips appear to be very shiny as if peened when looking at them straight on but have no discernible dimension change that I can tell.How much contact is too much and where do I go from here? Thanks,guys.

 

[kimbernut]

Something I said?

Something I said? Something I did?
I can't learn without asking. I'd appreciate a response,guys.

 

[gamachinist]

Hi Kimbernut,
Tuner and Bill Z have some things going on outside the forum right now,and Dave Sample is off doing other things too.
I'm sure Tuner will be along soon to advise you.His "thing" came up about the same time you last posted.
Unfortunatly,I don't know enough to help you without actually having the gun in hand to inspect,since I am pretty good at figuring things out when I can see them,but not all the experienced otherwise!

 

[Bill Z]

Well, I'm here and have read the post, but barrel fitting is a precise thing and cannot really be tuned or adjusted properly over the net. The shoulda', coulda', woulda' things are just to sensitive and critical.

I will say that the barrel hood is a bearing surface on the inside of the slide. You will get some finish rub there, it's normal. Do you have enough clearance, well, that would have to be measured. Schueman makes a timing kit that can help with that, it's just a set of shim stock and a little tool. I don't know if he charges for these or not if you don't get a barrel.

There are a lot of things to look for. The lugs should be riding the slide stop the entire way, the link is there to pull the barrel out of lock up. Most factory guns and drop in's ride the link though, it's not right, but not unusual.

Is your vertical impact area true and square? Where are the back of the feet striking? That is important. What's the legnth of your barrel bed, what's the setback from the top of the ramp to the throat of the barrel? Do you have the proper gap or 'jump'? How much lug engagement on top do you have? Is there peening up there? What about the hood against the breechface? The sides of the hood? Is it square and level in the slide? Etc....

There is just a lot to look for and it just cannot be done here properly, at least not by me. That's why it's not the cheapest thing to have done by a pro, and a lot of them get it wrong.

I'm sorry I couldn't be of any more help than that, and I hope I didn't discourage anyone, but it is what it is, and I cannot make it any simpler, that's why I didn't reply to the post earlier.

Bill

 

[kimbernut]

Thanks,guys.I hope I did not offend anyone. I apologize if I did!

Bill Z,you've given me things to check that I have not considered so I will get to it.I looked for peening in the barrel lugs and saw none but depth of engagement I have no idea.Jump from ramp to throat I eyeballed and deemed appropriate but on both items I will check the measurement.The vertical impact areas do appear true and square but are they really?I do not know how to check but I will try to find out. Am I flying by the seat of my pants? You betcha! You have not discouraged me at all but have helped give me direction and for that I thank you!

 

[stans]

Kimbernut, the wear on the blueing of the barrel and slide stop pin are normal. Anytime a blued part is rubbed by another part, it will slowly remove the blueing. Jerry Kuhnhausen's books on the 1911 are an invaluable aid in properly building, maintaining and tuning the 1911.

 

[kimbernut]

Thanks,stans. You've confirmed my suspicions on the bluing wear but I'm a bit concerned about the slight wear on the lug feet. I don't believe the camera I have access to will give a clear enough detail shot to show it here but I will try this weekend. The Kuhnhausen series has been a big help.

 

[stans]

If the bottom lugs are bearing correctly on the slide stop pin you will see very even wear of the blueing on the lugs. If there is just one or two bright, shiney spots, then the barrel is not fitted perfectly. Most factory barrels, at least the ones that actually lock up on the link, will only show blueing wear on the vertical portion of the lug where the slide stop pin stops the barrel and slide from moving further forward.

 

[Bill Z]

Stans, I would agree with your statement about 75%, but there are other variables that are involved and reading 'sign' isn't always accurate.

If the bottom lugs are bearing correctly on the slide stop pin you will see very even wear of the blueing on the lugs. If there is just one or two bright, shiney spots, then the barrel is not fitted perfectly.

This is true, but it is not necessarily an indication that the barrel is fit right. It is an indication that at one point or the other all of those areas had made contact. While a correctly fitted barrel will show these marks, it's possible for one that is incorrectly fit to show them also.

Most factory barrels, at least the ones that actually lock up on the link, will only show blueing wear on the vertical portion of the lug where the slide stop pin stops the barrel and slide from moving further forward.

Well, while this may be possible, even if the outer marks are there, the link can still be supporting the barrel at lock up and/or holding it back instead of the barrel lugs raeching the impact surface. There are a great deal of dynamics going on here and the 'sign' on the SS isn't the end all, it's not even the correct indicator to go by.

Now, if the marks are not there, it's easy to identify some of the problems, but just by them mearly being there is not a dependable indicator.