Passenger accidentally fires pistol in airport

[feedthehogs]

Being a police officer - in and of itself - does not make a person competent to handle any and all firearms.

Thankyou.

Until law enforcement agencies mandate extensive firearm training, this will continue to happen.

To most cops, its just a job. The gun comes off until next shift and sits in a drawer or on a table.

 

[Old Dog]

JJJ111, you're grasping at straws.

First sentence: 'accidental shooting' 'a gun was fired' 'no one was injured' 'no charges are being filed'.

That's 4 apologisms in the first sentence. The tone of the article couldn't be more slanted if it was Pravda reporting on factory production.

No apologies there; a factually written, semi-accurate report.

In a normal story it would have a headline "Local man panics airport by firing gun in terminal' :

No, in the sort of sensationalized story most THR members hate, in an East Coast urban area major newspapaper, maybe ... Most folks don't even recognize the sound of a single gunshot, and no one usually panics 'til the bodies start dropping, the blood is evident and the screaming starts ...

And then, the last word, the last sentence of the article is this "“Nobody was hurt — just a little nervous,” Diaz said."

Remember who Diaz is? He's the culprit. Lol. I wonder if any other articles end the same way?

JJJ111, better re-read the story. Diaz is the Rapid City police sergeant, the PD spokesman in this case ...

 

[pokey074]

This is South Dakota, people, not Cali or NY. I doubt Joe Citizen would have been charged with anything either, and I doubt the news article would have been any different.

 

[Tory]

Jurisdiction

"This is South Dakota, people, not Cali or NY. I doubt Joe Citizen would have been charged with anything either,..."

I beg to differ.

He was at the airport ticket stand with a loaded gun. How is that NOT a violation of FEDERAL law in this post-9/11 world?

 

[TheEgg]

He was at the airport ticket stand with a loaded gun. How is that NOT a violation of FEDERAL law in this post-9/11 world?

IANAL (thank goodness!) but all the regs that I am familiar with say that you are in violation only when you are in a SECURE area of the airport. In all the airports that I have seen, the ticket counter is not in the secure area.

I am positive that it is not a violation of fed law to walk up to the ticket counter with an unloaded gun - otherwise it would be impossible to check it into baggage. I am not certain if there is any twist in federal law about a 'loaded' gun in this situation.

There may be local laws that cover other areas of the airport, but I doubt that South Dakota has any such laws.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

There maybe differenrt local laws that is true but most airports are county property and in the county that I live in county buildings do not allow civilians to carry firearms inside their property. So carrying a loaded weapon in an airport would most likely be a crime unless you are a LE and on duty.

RC

It varies quite a bit on a state-by-state basis. In Minnesota, one can carry outside the secure area in perfect legailty.

 

[jeanfor]

....However Since He's a trained pro. maybe his fines and any Jail time should be double Sort of like speeding in construction Zone. He endangered peoples lives.

I believe that many trained civilians are better trained than the police to handle firearms. I have seen many police officers handle firearms in a very unsafe manner!!!

 

[carebear]

I am positive that it is not a violation of fed law to walk up to the ticket counter with an unloaded gun - otherwise it would be impossible to check it into baggage.

You are positively correct and for exactly the right reason. There's no Fed.gov reg about loaded outside the secure area either. It's all State/local/airport policy.

The times I've traveled with a pistol I've gunned up in the bathroom after picking up the bag.

But I have a scofflaw tendency.

 

[Tory]

I quite agree

"I am positive that it is not a violation of fed law to walk up to the ticket counter with an unloaded gun - otherwise it would be impossible to check it into baggage."

True as stated. However:

1. We are dealing with a LOADED gun; an altogether different scenario; and

2. The competent traveler has his gun(s) ALREADY duly secured BEFORE reaching the ticket counter.

An airport is NOT the place for incompetents to be fumbling with loaded guns.

 

[pokey074]

I beg to differ.

And I with you. This didn't even make the news here. Couple of months ago somebody had a ND in an occupied theater. Barely made the news, no uproar, official statement was that no law had been broken. SD is a different place that what a lot of you are used to.

 

[carebear]

Tory,

If you aren't planning to travel, you can Federally walk around heeled in airports assuming your state or locality doesn't bar it.

Not sure why the airport has to be a magic gun free zone.

Yeah, if you are checking the gun for travel, it should be all empty and secured and ready to be looked at and locked up. More convenient that way anyway.

But if you are seeing someone off or picking someone up or have landed at your destination, why not carry if legal?

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Two points:

First, the average cop is less familiar with his issued weapon than we are with our carry weapons because the average cop is not a gun nut. We CCW people tend, on the other hand, to be gun nuts, and know our weapons the way a guitar player knows his instrument, or the way a motocross racer knows his vehicle, and we tend to be more thoroughly familiar with the rules of safe handling.

Second, this problem seems to happen a lot with the Glocks. The fact that you have to pull the trigger as part of routine breakdown procedure is what's causing it. Normally, you'd first remove the mag, then work the slide, and then pull the trigger. If, however, in the confusion of the moment (such as being in the check in line at the airport and having to take out your firearm in that environment) you were to get the order of those steps wrong, e.g., work the slide, then remove the mag, then pull the trigger, it's gong to go bang. Not a design flaw, but it does tend to cause problems in situations like this, when the gun's operator is not thoroughly familiar with his weapon and the rules of safe gun handling.

Remember the cop who was giving a talk to kids about the dangers of firearms? He took his Glock out and did exactly what this guy did, but he shot himself in the leg in front of the high school class. It was on video and made it to all the gun related web sites.

Naturally, it is still the cop's fault. Part of the answer, however, might be to address the process for selecting cops. At a certain point in history, they started screening out those who are actually firearms enthusiasts in the selection process. They decided that folks with no interest in firearms would make better cops, and this is the result. Another way to address it would be to require more regular qualification with service weapons, such as monthly instead of yearly. This will force every cop to become thoroughly familiar with his weapon, whether or not he starts out particularly interested in firearms. Alternatively, they could switch to 1911s, which, by their design, are much harder to accidentally discharge, and do not encourage the development of mindlessly pulling the trigger as part of its routine maintenance procedure.

 

[Tory]

Here and there

"Couple of months ago somebody had a ND in an occupied theater. Barely made the news, no uproar"

Probably because it was a theater and not an airport.

Last time I was in a theater, there were no TSA "security" agents, warning signs, scanners, etc. In MY corner of paradise, the entire airport is a no-gun zone and the police carry SUPPRESSED MP-5's.

Why suppressed? So the gunfire won't startle the passengers. And that's as close to a direct quote as my memory allows - and I made it point to remember that bit of blinding logic.

 

[MrTactical]

In IDPA we first drop the mag, 2nd we rack the slide and remove the live round
while the slide is open we look into the chamber to insure that the chamber is empty, then point the weapon at the ground and drop the hammer on the empty chamber. Sounds like he skipped steps 1 and 2
He should be disqualified.NO EXCUSE FOR THIS TYPE OF ERROR

 

[Janitor]

Sounds like he skipped steps 1 and 2

That, or he might have reversed them (of course, not actually _ever_ checking the chamber).

Still - no excuse.
-

 

[deanf]

Uh, I have yet to handle or see a handgun that would NOT fire with a round chambered, magazine or no.

Smith & Wesson 3rd generation pistols usually won't.

 

[killermarmot]

yeah that's kinda funny the article says most. I can only think of the smith autos (atleast the ones CHP uses) and I think the springfield XD has one and other then that I'm drawing a blank. Although I think the new Berettas and Rugers are going to start having them. along with chambered round indicators :banghead:

 

[killermarmot]

not to hijack the thread but does anyone know if any rifles have a mag disconect or equivalent? I've never heard of one but thought it would be worth an ask.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

not to hijack the thread but does anyone know if any rifles have a mag disconect or equivalent? I've never heard of one but thought it would be worth an ask.

Good point. I don't think there is a one. There are also no rifles with decocking levers or double-action modes. Most rifles require one single-action pull of the trigger, and have a simple safety that either blocks the trigger or the firing pin, or no safety at all.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

not to hijack the thread but does anyone know if any rifles have a mag disconect or equivalent? I've never heard of one but thought it would be worth an ask.

Good point. I don't think there is a one. There are also no rifles with decocking levers or double-action modes. Most rifles require one single-action pull of the trigger, and have a simple safety that either blocks the trigger or the firing pin, or no safety at all.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Whoops! Don't know why it double posted.