Patched Ball or Conical?

[anythingelse]

So I have this nice hawken, trying to figure what load to start off with. I'll admit I only have experience with cap & ball revolvers...

What would you guys go with for an all around load? Ball or bullet? It's a T/C with 1 in 48", 50 cal. Not looking to slay a dinosaur, this'll be mostly a paper puncher but I'd ideally like it to be able to take deer and hog.

 

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Round ball all the way. Will drop anything your going to hunt. 490 ball and .017
thick blue & white strip pillow ticking from Wal-Mart lubed with water souable
oil & water mix for target shooting, and lubed with Crisco for hunting will do it.
Black Powder FF about 70 grs will work fine. This will be easy loading and give
good accuracy. For better paper target accuracy go to a .495 ball. You will have
to wipe between shots, but you should do that anyway, except hunting. Don't
know anything about the subs as I have never used them. I'm from the old
school of I believe in Black Powder guns, you should use Black Powder. Clean
your T/C with water, dry, then WD-40. You will never have any problems and this
way it will last you a lifetime of enjoyment .
Phil

 

[rodwha]

I'd also vote for patched round ball (PRB). It's far cheaper, and does more than well enough for medium game out to about 125 yds.

Being .50 cal I'd opt for 3F powder as it's a little more energetic and typically seems to burn a little bit cleaner. .50 cal is typically considered at the wayward point of using 3 or 2F it seems.

My .50 cal is a 1:48" twist, and when I first saw the figures for a RB and entered the data into a calculator I didn't think it would be useful beyond maybe 50 yds with the more modern "knowledge." But I spent a lot of time reading in traditional forums and found these silly RB's kill stuff easily even beyond 125 yds if you are very good and know your stuff, which I do not.

Were I to hunt something much larger I'd opt for a conical though, which is something I like about the .50 cal. It can kill elk with a PRB, though you'd have to close the distance to maybe 50 yds +/-, but the conical will give you back that range.

RB's and patches with lube are by far cheaper than conicals with lube.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I shoot a patched round ball in my Hawken (a Pedersoli kit) .50 caliber rifle and enjoy it a lot. I use .22 caliber cotton cleaning patches with a .490 ball and am happy with the accuracy and the cost.

 

[rodwha]

I go cheap and buy pillow ticking and make my own patches, and use cooking oil for lube (grape seed oil so far). I also recently bought Lee casting gear and make my own RB's, and will soon purchase a custom bullet mold with 3 different pistol bullet styles, as well as a REAL mold for my rifle. my 82 lbs of lead piping cost me $82. I'm set for a good while.

 

[rodwha]

I forgot to mention that it seems rule of thumb to begin at caliber for a starting load and to work up 5 grains at a time, which would then be 50 grns for your .50 cal. I've also heard it said that the sweet spot is usually close to 1.5 X's the caliber, which would be about 75 grns.

 

[anythingelse]

Patch and ball it is. I have a credit over at Midway, they have .10, .15, .18 and .20 patches...should I start at .15 to play it safe or go with .18? Pre lubed or get them dry and put my own stuff on?

Kind of a little aside but on my can of ballistol it says can be used as a patch lube does that mean for patched round balls?

Edit: Oh yeah by the way do you guys recommend a wad or bore button with the PRB or does the patch act as its own wad?

 

[rodwha]

The patch acts somewhat like a wad.

I'd go with 0.015" patches, which are tight enough in my bore with deep grooves.

Me personally I'd prefer my own lube, but I'm sure theirs works well. But I like to buy strips of pillow ticking to make my own. I'm a bit frugal and like to do things myself, which is part of the hobby to me as I have time.

There are guys that use "moose milk" as a lube for patches which is something like a 1:8 ratio of Ballistol to water. I use cooking oil though, but that doesn't mean is a good thing, just the only one I've tried so far.

I love Ballistol though, and use it to oil my guns and wood. I love the smell and have wondered how I can put into deodorant!

Any more questions?

 

[anythingelse]

I have bore butter and since getting ballistol really don't use it. I've heard this can be used as a patch lube? How would one go about doing that? Melting some and dipping the patch through? Or just rubbing it on by hand?

Regarding the ballistol deoderant, I think the market might be pretty small. Stuff smells like praline and coon bait to me

 

[rodwha]

I'm not familiar with Bore Butter. If it's rather stiff I'd guess melting it in a small container and allowing some patches to soak it up. Too much or too little is often not good though. Maybe squeeze the excess when you pull them out and set them on a piece of wax paper to set?

About everything I read in regards to the smell of Ballistol is that it stinks something fierce. But I like it! And SWMBO never complains, though I'm not about to go ask her!

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I have a small plastic container similar to a margarine container that I keep my lubed patches in. I use Bore Butter and smear a small amount on the center of one side of the patch and then stack them in the container. About 30 seconds in the microwave for a half filled container evenly distributes the lubricant among the patches. I use a sandwich bag to hold the patches and balls in my shooting pouch when I am in the field.

 

[Zeke/PA]

My Hawkin is a built from kit T/C .50 cal. that is about 35 years old.
I shoot home cast, pure lead balls with a .013" thick patch over 45 grs. of FFFg. for exceptional accuracy. My Deer Hunting load is a home cast 350 grain Maxi-Ball over 90 grains of FFg. I have taken 15 deer with this rifle over the years and ALL have been one shot kills.

 

[anythingelse]

Steel Horse: That's perfect, I didn't think of that. Do you think I can get away with slicing open the bore butter tube and storing the butter in baby food containers or something like that, or will it go bad? I have to practically stand on the tube to get it to come out.

Zeke: That's good news. 45 grains sounds like a nice light target load. What kind of accuracy are you getting with the maxi?

 

[rodwha]

There are many who use something similar to his target load for hunting small game with large bore rifles!

I'm going to give it a go one of these days, though I still need to work on an accurate hunting load first as I just finished breaking in my rifle.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Bore butter needs to be above 80 degrees or so in my experience to be of toothpaste consistency. I throw my tube in a bowl of hot water for a bit before I use it. I think you could put it in any container without a problem. I am not sure what is in it but it smells like Icy-Hot to me.

 

[Zeke/PA]

With the Maxi-Ball, from rest at 50 yards, I can get groups of 2 inches or less.
My rifle is a percussion, I use the set trigger and swab the barrel every second shot.

 

[MEHavey]

get away with slicing open the bore butter tube and storing the butter in baby food containers ??

Bore butter is nothing more than mostly olive oil, a bit of bee's wax to thicken up, a dab of
yellow food dye to make it look pleasant, and a drop of peppermint flavoring so it'll smell good.
Put whatever you want in a little screw-top plastic container from CVS and it'll last forever.
http://hawk4.tripod.com/id85.htm

If in the field, lube precut patches (if you use them) by putting a dab of BB between
thumb/forefinger and rub it in. (You don't need much.)

 

[madsend81]

I use PRB in my .50 1:48 twist Traditions Hawken. .490 Ball with a .015 pre-lubed patch and 60gns of FF Schutzen BP got me a 3/4" grouping at 30 yds offhand last time out. Mine is a percussion with a set trigger.

I use Bore butter to season up my barrel after cleaning. It has a pine scent to it, nothing my wife will complain about.

I haven't tried conicals in my hawken yet, and with the accuracy I found with the PRB, I'm not in any hurry to do so.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Round ball all the way. Will drop anything your going to hunt. 490 ball and .017 thick blue & white strip pillow ticking from Wal-Mart lubed with water souable oil & water mix for target shooting, and lubed with Crisco for hunting will do it. Black Powder FF about 70 grs will work fine. This will be easy loading and give good accuracy. For better paper target accuracy go to a .495 ball. You will have to wipe between shots, but you should do that anyway, except hunting. Don't know anything about the subs as I have never used them. I'm from the old school of I believe in Black Powder guns, you should use Black Powder. Clean your T/C with water, dry, then WD-40. You will never have any problems and thisway it will last you a lifetime of enjoyment

That pretty well sums it up!

Especially for paper punching, there is no reason for a really hot load and a large slug, which will only bruise your shoulder more. I target shoot with a patched round ball in my .54 with 70 grains of 3Fg, and I do the same when hunting.

LD

 

[Zeke/PA]

I use PRB in my .50 1:48 twist Traditions Hawken. .490 Ball with a .015 pre-lubed patch and 60gns of FF Schutzen BP got me a 3/4" grouping at 30 yds offhand last time out. Mine is a percussion with a set trigger.

I use Bore butter to season up my barrel after cleaning. It has a pine scent to it, nothing my wife will complain about.

I haven't tried conicals in my hawken yet, and with the accuracy I found with the PRB, I'm not in any hurry to do so.

I shoot round balls in both my Hawkin and my .36 cal Seneca but I really prefer the Maxi's for deer hunting. Actually, I'm more confident with the .50 Hawkin for deer hunting verses a shotgun slug and I use the Hawkin in some local ares where there is a firearm restriction. I once installed a Vernier tang sight and front globe on the Hawkin and achieved SUPER accuracy as in "ten shots, one ragged hole" with conicals at 50 yards. The setup was NOT a good one for the sometimes poor light conditions of the deer woods however.

 

[greywolf444]

I have used most of the conicals moulds were available for. they all killed deer about the same. thumb sized hole all the way thru. Tried roundballs and never looked back. out to 100 yds ball goes right thru and they fall down. way less recoil, better accuracy, just as effective, cheaper to make.

 

[rodwha]

The only reason I'd really opt for a conical would be large game or longer distances (100-175 yds), though that would likely call for a scope since 125 yds is a bit much for me to aim at a small circle...

 

[Patocazador]

Patched round balls and Maxi-balls both shoot real well in my T/C Hawken at 75 yards.

 

[J-Bar]

I checked the sights on my TC Hawken .54 yesterday with a patched round ball over 85 grains of KIK. First two shots were two inches apart at 100 yards, using aperture rear sight and fluorescent green front bead.

Yeah, probably a fluke, but I quit rather than spoil it!

Missouri's muzzleloader season starts Saturday!

 

[AJumbo]

I've used both, in .50 and .54, on elk and deer and the end result with either is a big pile of venison. My TC .54 now wears a Green Mountain RB barrel, and I don't miss shooting slugs at all.

Slugs have their place, and if I was hunting bear I would find a TC .54 barrel and feed it a slug it likes. Nothing wrong with some extra oomph if you're hunting something that can eat you. Also, a slug can punch through bone better than a round ball. That being said........ round ball.