Deltaboy1984
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Love Patton .
Patton
- Thread starter jeffmack
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MutinousDoug
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During Pershing's Punitative Expedition to Mexico, Patton reportedly killed Villa's chief of bodyguards: Cardenas, with his SSA revolver on May 14th, 1916.
Yes, the 1916 incident is well known to those who are interested in Gen. Patton. But I have never heard of an incident thereafter when he used it again.
In 1935 he purchased a Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum, that he sometimes called his "killing gun." He saw it as a more serious personal weapon, where the older Single Action was for show - and he was a showman of the highest order.
He carried both revolvers for a short time in 1944 when the Third Army was rushed to Belgium during the Battle of the Bulge.
Cosmoline
Member
He was steampunk before there were punks.
Patton was indeed a character. He could 'walk the walk' though. Love him or hate him, the guy was the real deal.
For all the talk of his side arms in "War as I Knew It" he took HIS carbine to bed when rumors abounded of German Paratroopers trying to stop his advance on the Rhine.
He called the M1 'the greatest battle implement ever devised' but packed a carbine. And maybe as many as six different handguns across the ETO. You'd NEED to drive a tank to carry all that hardware.
Patton 'designed his own uniform' and the dress version included a GOLD football helmet. Apparently Patton thought the then NEWFANGLED hardshell helmet offered better protection inside armored vehicles then the leather ones in use at the time. He was tall for a tanker and bumped his head a lot. Until now I have never seen him posed in the foot ball helmet uniform, but there it is.
Patton also designed the last saber issued to US troops and based on that ALONE I think he deserves some kind of Steampunk nod. He should have a cape too.
For all the talk of his side arms in "War as I Knew It" he took HIS carbine to bed when rumors abounded of German Paratroopers trying to stop his advance on the Rhine.
He called the M1 'the greatest battle implement ever devised' but packed a carbine. And maybe as many as six different handguns across the ETO. You'd NEED to drive a tank to carry all that hardware.
Patton 'designed his own uniform' and the dress version included a GOLD football helmet. Apparently Patton thought the then NEWFANGLED hardshell helmet offered better protection inside armored vehicles then the leather ones in use at the time. He was tall for a tanker and bumped his head a lot. Until now I have never seen him posed in the foot ball helmet uniform, but there it is.
Patton also designed the last saber issued to US troops and based on that ALONE I think he deserves some kind of Steampunk nod. He should have a cape too.
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Must not leave out the Colt Woodsman, and later the Colt 1908 .380 pistol he was shown carrying in photos.
rc
rc
ApacheCoTodd
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That would kinda fly in the face of his reverence for the Garand. Just about as difficult to use without a clip as the 1911 without magazines.I believe the general was credited with observing that a semi-auto is a two-piece gun and without the magazine, it was virtually useless.
The revolver, however, requires only loose ammunition to function.
At least, it was something like that.
I believe he had a bad experience with the M1911 in WWI. The revolvers were a throwback to his cavalry days, when he went with Black Jack Pershing in pursuit of Pancho Villas outlaws. Or something like that.
I can't help but wonder what Mr Spit-shine woulda done were the average dog face willing and able to carry revolvers based upon preference.
As far as his show-boat brace of pistols... I'd respect his decision more were they 1917s - even pimped out.
Seems an ivory handled pistol owner looking down on pearl handles is a bit of a crock throwing stones from its glass house at the pot while ridiculing its color.
General Patton had the stocks on his S&W .357 Magnum made with the grip screws mounted a bit lower than center. He engraved the "GSP" himself.
I had the privilege of getting to hold the S&W at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox, KY. It really is a "working" gun. The finish has a lot of scratches and nicks in it. The Colt SAA also has seen a lot of use. The stocks on the S&W seem a bit small, even with the S&W grip adapter. I don't have large hands, but those stocks were small, even for me.
From what the curator told me, he only carried both the S&W and the Colt together only a few times, and most of the pictures I've seen, show him with only one or the other, on his belt.
The other item on his gun belt is a case for his engineer's compass. It's not a purpose-designed case. It's a handcuff case which fit the bill. It came, with the holsters, from S. A. Myers.
He also carried a Model 51 Remington, in .380.
I thought the Colt 1908 was a .380, and not .32ACP.
I had the privilege of getting to hold the S&W at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox, KY. It really is a "working" gun. The finish has a lot of scratches and nicks in it. The Colt SAA also has seen a lot of use. The stocks on the S&W seem a bit small, even with the S&W grip adapter. I don't have large hands, but those stocks were small, even for me.
From what the curator told me, he only carried both the S&W and the Colt together only a few times, and most of the pictures I've seen, show him with only one or the other, on his belt.
The other item on his gun belt is a case for his engineer's compass. It's not a purpose-designed case. It's a handcuff case which fit the bill. It came, with the holsters, from S. A. Myers.
He also carried a Model 51 Remington, in .380.
I thought the Colt 1908 was a .380, and not .32ACP.
My Father carried a 1911 during his years in 1st Cav in Korea (he commented on the comp between a .38 revolver and a 1911 later in his years) and his "end-all" was a .45 (literally his words) put "them down better." My father in law carried a .38 as an Army Air Corps pilot in Korea and Vietnam and switched to a 1911 in 1970 because it shot better through the windshield in his Huey (D model for the enthusiasts amongst us) . Not much you can do when strapped into the left seat and someone pops up in the elephant grass 20 feet in front of you. Thank you .45.
Gen. Patton was a driving force behind an effort to get the military establishment to offer a General Officers Pistol.
While the pistol itself wasn't unique, the belt and holster (s) that came with it were. The whole outfit could be obtained by any officer who had reached General Officer grade rank, or was about to be promoted into it.
The first General Officers Pistol was a Colt .380 Pocket Model, but later when the supply was exausted they issued the same pistol in .32 ACP. When those ran out they changed to a highly modified .45 1911A1, with the work being done at Rock Island Armory.
Patton's General Officers Pistol was a Colt .380, serial number 135170. The next one, serial number 135171 was issued to his boss, Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower.
All of this is not to suggest that Patton didn't own other Colt Pocket Model pistols, which were very popular during his lifetime. But thanks to Uncle Sam he unquestionably did have a .380.
Also both General Eisenhower and Patton were issued Colt Detective Special revolvers.
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Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
Believe that should be "General Officer" as "field grade" is Major through Colonel or pay grades O4 through O6.
The first M9 Beretta I ever saw was one issued to our 1 star in about 1984. The belt, magazine pouch and holster were a very nice black leather rig.
Cosmoline
Member
A retro-future combination of modern technology with old 19th and early 20th century visions that never came to fruition. It's WW2 fought with huge airships by soldiers dressed in Patton's uniform, though they'd likely be armed with something like the "Buck Rogers" Savage semiauto pistols rather than registered magnums.
It's all very silly of course, but it does have a useful benefit. Thinking about these things reminds us that the old wasn't old when it was new. Patton was on the cutting edge of military innovation in his day. The .357 was the newest ultra high tech, ultra powerful sidearm. To carry such a thing was to make a statement that you didn't fear the future. So while his popular image, thanks to George C. Scott, tends to be that of an old general who would have been better suited fighting for Roma, the fact is he was constantly pushing for the Army to upgrade and modernize.
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tipoc
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Actually...
Patton led a small group of 10 soldiers and two guides who one morning came on a house where Cardenas and two others were sleeping at the San Miguelito ranchero. The men took off and were shot up in a gun fight.
It's not clear who Cardenas was exactly. He was not a Captain of Villa's personal bodyguards as there was no such office. Some reports list him as a Captain in Villa's army. Some Mexican reports say the three men killed were not Villistas at all. At any event there were three dead men who Patton strapped to the hood of his car and drove around with.
The Punitive expedition was forced to withdraw from Mexico eventually. They did not find or harm Villa who avoided them while he negotiated with Washington. There was a short battle between U.S. troops and Carranza who had declared himself President of Mexico and who was trying to defeat Villa. Carranza demanded the U.S. withdraw and allow Mexicans to settle their own affairs. At the same time he wanted U.S. recognition of his government and support for the fight against Villa. Neither Villa nor Carranza wanted a fight with the U.S. and avoided engagements.
Anyways Patton did engage in this brief gunfight. He led the troops that killed three Mexican somebodies.
tipoc
Not to mention his family was loaded. Such people can do whatever pleases them except slapping soldiers when in command of course.
Deaf Smith
Member
Yes that nickeled plated Colt .45 revolver he used was once BLUE. He used in in the expedition to Mexico and that is the gun he used in shootouts. Later he sent it back to Colt to be nickle plated and ivory stocks added. He carried it in WW2 along with his .357 revolver.
I have no doubt he would have used it if the Germans had caught him at close quarters.
Deaf
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