phantomak47
Member
What are some tips for buying guns at pawn shops? What are the basic dos and dont's? Certain things to specifically look for?
Pawn Shop gun buying tips?? Dos and Dont's
- Thread starter phantomak47
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Omaney
Member
Gun is a gun whether it's at a pawn shop or Cabela's IMO. Is it in good shape? Is it worth the $$ to you? I passed up a nickel plated Python about ten years ago at a pawn shop and have kicked myself over it ever since. It was truly a beauty.
Alphazulu6
member
Phantom,
Aside from looking at revolvers and checking for loose cylinders, auto pistols "rattle" and fit which are all things you should check for. Those things should tell you about how particular the pawn shop dealers are with their selection and unless those are highly discounted, your in a hard area to low-ball negotiations when they are selling junk for NIB prices which most around here do.
With that said you CAN find some deals but there are a few indicators that will tell you how much the mark-up they have on the guns by how much they are selling those high production "standard cost" firearms for.
For instance, I tend to browse the shotgun section first. Remington 870s stand out to me as being $300 NIB at the retailer-type-gunshops all over the country. Look at how close they are pricing their 700s to $300 (considering they are not beat-up and LOOK NIB). If they are asking $250+ for them, chances are everything else is priced like the NIB stores and not really worth the time to barter them down to a decent price (you can always try the low-ball but be 100% prepared to just walk away and not look back).
For pistols I browse their Glocks. They too fall in the standard cost section. If you see them $450+ chances are the rest of their selection is priced NIB and difficult to negotiate past 25% off the prices that they are new. If you see the Glocks (in good operating condition) for under $450 chances are the other pistols are not too marked up to begin with so you have a good chance of negotiating down to the 40-60% off NIB that we all enjoy buying used guns at.
I do not really look at the rifle selection at pawn shops. But I have noticed that sometimes if their pistol selection is high you can see that shotguns and rifles seem a bit more reasonably priced to start (which is key when beginning negotiations as you already have a built in number 25% off from NIB). If you are negotiating from NIB price you will probably only end up with 20-30% off.
Neighborhoods are pretty much a good representation of how much you are going to pay but it still varies by how the selection. If its a rougher neighborhood the pistols might be overpriced (well most probably are) and rifles, shotguns might be a "steal".
If you see they have some decent ones in stock that you like dont forget to leave and come back to the internet and see what they cost NIB before you buy. If they are pricing that particular one NIB and the other guns are priced well under book then you might have a good shot at getting a low-ball offer in on the firearm and haggle it down, if not then you might have to walk away as they are confusing themselves with "Dicks Sporting Goods" and not a Pawn Shop.
Good Luck!
Aside from looking at revolvers and checking for loose cylinders, auto pistols "rattle" and fit which are all things you should check for. Those things should tell you about how particular the pawn shop dealers are with their selection and unless those are highly discounted, your in a hard area to low-ball negotiations when they are selling junk for NIB prices which most around here do.
With that said you CAN find some deals but there are a few indicators that will tell you how much the mark-up they have on the guns by how much they are selling those high production "standard cost" firearms for.
For instance, I tend to browse the shotgun section first. Remington 870s stand out to me as being $300 NIB at the retailer-type-gunshops all over the country. Look at how close they are pricing their 700s to $300 (considering they are not beat-up and LOOK NIB). If they are asking $250+ for them, chances are everything else is priced like the NIB stores and not really worth the time to barter them down to a decent price (you can always try the low-ball but be 100% prepared to just walk away and not look back).
For pistols I browse their Glocks. They too fall in the standard cost section. If you see them $450+ chances are the rest of their selection is priced NIB and difficult to negotiate past 25% off the prices that they are new. If you see the Glocks (in good operating condition) for under $450 chances are the other pistols are not too marked up to begin with so you have a good chance of negotiating down to the 40-60% off NIB that we all enjoy buying used guns at.
I do not really look at the rifle selection at pawn shops. But I have noticed that sometimes if their pistol selection is high you can see that shotguns and rifles seem a bit more reasonably priced to start (which is key when beginning negotiations as you already have a built in number 25% off from NIB). If you are negotiating from NIB price you will probably only end up with 20-30% off.
Neighborhoods are pretty much a good representation of how much you are going to pay but it still varies by how the selection. If its a rougher neighborhood the pistols might be overpriced (well most probably are) and rifles, shotguns might be a "steal".
If you see they have some decent ones in stock that you like dont forget to leave and come back to the internet and see what they cost NIB before you buy. If they are pricing that particular one NIB and the other guns are priced well under book then you might have a good shot at getting a low-ball offer in on the firearm and haggle it down, if not then you might have to walk away as they are confusing themselves with "Dicks Sporting Goods" and not a Pawn Shop.
Good Luck!
ZeSpectre
Member
Alphazulu6 gives some excellent advice on pricing. My own favorite local place is kinda weird that way. They have a Firestar for over TWICE what it should cost and won't budge on the price. Yet I was able to get a CPO SIG 229 for a completely reasonable price and yet a nearly identical 229 right next to it had a NIB pricetag!
On your first trip do scouting, not buying.
Take notes about the ones you like.
Have a bore light.
Any reasonable pawn shop should let you handle, field strip, and examine (after all they are USED goods). If they won't let you do these basic things then WALK AWAY.
Some places let you dry fire...some frown on it. ASK FIRST. However if they won't let you test the trigger on a USED gun... Walk away.
Dont' get an attitude like "oh it's -just- a pawn shop". Most shops are very professional businesses and you should treat the workers with the same respect you would anyone else.
Learn how to haggle. An approach like looking mournfully and saying "do ya have -any- wiggle room on this price" has almost always been a good opening for negotiation.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST... have some damn idea what the firearms are worth in the book before you start haggling. That's why you should scout and take notes first and then come back to deal after you've researched prices.
On your first trip do scouting, not buying.
Take notes about the ones you like.
Have a bore light.
Any reasonable pawn shop should let you handle, field strip, and examine (after all they are USED goods). If they won't let you do these basic things then WALK AWAY.
Some places let you dry fire...some frown on it. ASK FIRST. However if they won't let you test the trigger on a USED gun... Walk away.
Dont' get an attitude like "oh it's -just- a pawn shop". Most shops are very professional businesses and you should treat the workers with the same respect you would anyone else.
Learn how to haggle. An approach like looking mournfully and saying "do ya have -any- wiggle room on this price" has almost always been a good opening for negotiation.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST... have some damn idea what the firearms are worth in the book before you start haggling. That's why you should scout and take notes first and then come back to deal after you've researched prices.
DMK
Member
I agree with that. Most of the Pawn Shops I've gone to have less of an idea about gun values than dedicated Gunshops. In the same shop I'll see one gun vastly overpriced and another way underpriced. You need to know which is the bargain. Then I've seen some Pawn Shops where everything is way overpriced. I especially love Pawn Shops for milsurp guns. Except for SKS (which are often overpriced here for some reason) they often have great deals, usually tucked way back in a dark, dusty corner. I guess to some of them, they are all just some old, heavy, dirty gun. In my experience, they are more willing to haggle too.
Research and knowledge is your friend.
ronto
Member
From what I've seen in pawn shops in my area, in many cases I can buy a new one for the same price or less than they are asking...Not worth my time...I don't even bother looking any more.
FourTeeFive
Member
Don't be afraid to offer a lower price
I've gotten some good deals locally just because I see something sit for a few months and I know they want to sell it. It never hurts to offer a lower price and see what they say.
I've gotten some good deals locally just because I see something sit for a few months and I know they want to sell it. It never hurts to offer a lower price and see what they say.
Bring cash, let them know what you are looking for, leave a phone #, visit regularly. Always try to buy something to show good faith - .22 ammo, holster, something- doesn't matter what, after they get to know you and that you will pay cash if they have what you want then they will be calling you when something comes in. Ask if anything is coming out of pawn soon. As has been saod, know values. I run through auctionarms and gunbroker regularly just to keep up with prices.
i had a co-worker who had a break-in and it inspired him to get a shotgun.
of course rather than go down to a local gun shop he went to a pawn shop. For some reason he thought that it would be quicker, easier, less paperwork, no waiting period etc. He paid $300+ for a used 870, I then showed him the gander mountain add for the same gun new $279.99, and told him he filled out the same exact paperwork, and everthing as he would have at Gander Mountain.
I think a lot of people see pawnshops as not quite legal, less hassle places, and these ignorant folk are going to pay a bit more, not realizing the true value, and just assume they got a good deal. So it pays for the pawnshops to overcharge a bit.
of course rather than go down to a local gun shop he went to a pawn shop. For some reason he thought that it would be quicker, easier, less paperwork, no waiting period etc. He paid $300+ for a used 870, I then showed him the gander mountain add for the same gun new $279.99, and told him he filled out the same exact paperwork, and everthing as he would have at Gander Mountain.
I think a lot of people see pawnshops as not quite legal, less hassle places, and these ignorant folk are going to pay a bit more, not realizing the true value, and just assume they got a good deal. So it pays for the pawnshops to overcharge a bit.
DO: pay in cash. Have it with you when you make an offer. They might be willing to give a better discount.
Don't: pay listed price or the first price they tell you.
DO: Visit often. You aren't the only one looking and things get put out are lower prices, but don't stay long.
A friend of mine said he preferred the chain pawn shops where it is more likely that minimum wage types will be pricing things.
Don't: pay listed price or the first price they tell you.
DO: Visit often. You aren't the only one looking and things get put out are lower prices, but don't stay long.
A friend of mine said he preferred the chain pawn shops where it is more likely that minimum wage types will be pricing things.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
You are more likely to get a better deal if you are either buying at the end of the day, end of the week, or end of the month. Everyone likes to close out with a good sale.
Don't offer some ridiculously low price. Where there is a chance you could get the item for that price, it is very remote and you are more likely to piss off the broker and then not be able to haggle with him effectively since he has precategorized you as being cheap and not worth his time. That may not be true, but by lowballing an offer, you have done what the cheap people do that are just there to waste time.
Always know the top dollar (including tax) you are willing to pay BEFORE the negotiations start and NEVER go over your predetermined top dollar. Too often, folks get excited and over haggle and end up with poor deals. You have to be willing to walk away from a deal and if you are emotional about it, you lose your objectivity and make mistakes.
As a final offer, and only as a final offer, when negotiations have reached a sticking point, showing and offer cash is sometimes enough to tip the scales. It shows your willingness and ability to put your money where you mouth is and that the negotiations on your part are serious.
Things to keep in mind that many folks seem to not be able to get over when it comes to buying used guns in pawn shops...
1. No, they are not stolen (the broker has a FFL and the used guns get checked by the cops.
2. It does not matter what you think he has in the gun and it does not matter how much perceived profit you think he will make. All that matters is whether or not you get the deal you want.
3. You can look at the price tag all you want, but you aren't going to be able to figure out the pricing code.
Also see...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=157675&highlight=pawn+code
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146510&highlight=pawn+code
Don't offer some ridiculously low price. Where there is a chance you could get the item for that price, it is very remote and you are more likely to piss off the broker and then not be able to haggle with him effectively since he has precategorized you as being cheap and not worth his time. That may not be true, but by lowballing an offer, you have done what the cheap people do that are just there to waste time.
Always know the top dollar (including tax) you are willing to pay BEFORE the negotiations start and NEVER go over your predetermined top dollar. Too often, folks get excited and over haggle and end up with poor deals. You have to be willing to walk away from a deal and if you are emotional about it, you lose your objectivity and make mistakes.
As a final offer, and only as a final offer, when negotiations have reached a sticking point, showing and offer cash is sometimes enough to tip the scales. It shows your willingness and ability to put your money where you mouth is and that the negotiations on your part are serious.
Things to keep in mind that many folks seem to not be able to get over when it comes to buying used guns in pawn shops...
1. No, they are not stolen (the broker has a FFL and the used guns get checked by the cops.
2. It does not matter what you think he has in the gun and it does not matter how much perceived profit you think he will make. All that matters is whether or not you get the deal you want.
3. You can look at the price tag all you want, but you aren't going to be able to figure out the pricing code.
Also see...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=157675&highlight=pawn+code
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146510&highlight=pawn+code
aka108
Member
The guy who pawned it most likely recieved 15 to 20 percent of the value of the item. Their asking prices are generally pretty high and in excess of the items worth. Don't think I'd go over 50-60 percent of asking price if that price puts it into the great deal category. You need to know the general value of whatever it is you are considering or you'll get had bad.
LeonCarr
Member
As previously mentioned, cash is king at a pawn shop. A lot of the guns with the NIB price tags become MUCH better deals when you ask, "What is the best deal you can make, cash money?"
Another trick is when they give you a price, ask if that price is out the door(sales tax included in the price). That is good for another 33 bucks off a 400 dollar gun (figured at 8.25%, YMMV due to tax rates in your area).
And also as previously mentioned, always be prepared to walk away from a deal. Money is like your backside, it is yours and it is portable.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Another trick is when they give you a price, ask if that price is out the door(sales tax included in the price). That is good for another 33 bucks off a 400 dollar gun (figured at 8.25%, YMMV due to tax rates in your area).
And also as previously mentioned, always be prepared to walk away from a deal. Money is like your backside, it is yours and it is portable
.Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Titan6
member
- Pawn shops as noted do not normally have good deals. That said on the rare occasion they may have a decent deal.
- Know what you are doing and know what you are talking about. Let the seller do most of the talking. You will learn more that way about both the seller and the gun.
- When neogtiating prices I simply bring out my PDA, log on to the net and show how much the same gun is offered for on GOA. Since on GOA you can normally drop the price at least as much as shipping and vendor fee this is a good starting point. When the seller gets annoyed this is because the prices are too high and the pawn shop seller knows it. Of course you could always jut buy it on GOA....
- The more time you spend in negotiations the more likely the price is to drop. Often a little air in the conversation will put the dealer in the position to want to move the item. You have to be prepared to walk if you don't get what you are looking for or close to it.
- Some items are not really for sale. I know of one shop that has had a Colt Python in the case for five years. They raise the price periodically above the going rate. It is in 75% condition and selling for $1350 currently. It is really the owner's toy but today she will take $1350
- When neogtiating I sometimes work another product into the equation... say ammo. The owner might be more flexible on product that has high mark up. Since you need ammo anyway why not go ahead and have some thrown in for ''free''.
- Know what you are doing and know what you are talking about. Let the seller do most of the talking. You will learn more that way about both the seller and the gun.
- When neogtiating prices I simply bring out my PDA, log on to the net and show how much the same gun is offered for on GOA. Since on GOA you can normally drop the price at least as much as shipping and vendor fee this is a good starting point. When the seller gets annoyed this is because the prices are too high and the pawn shop seller knows it. Of course you could always jut buy it on GOA....
- The more time you spend in negotiations the more likely the price is to drop. Often a little air in the conversation will put the dealer in the position to want to move the item. You have to be prepared to walk if you don't get what you are looking for or close to it.
- Some items are not really for sale. I know of one shop that has had a Colt Python in the case for five years. They raise the price periodically above the going rate. It is in 75% condition and selling for $1350 currently. It is really the owner's toy but today she will take $1350
- When neogtiating I sometimes work another product into the equation... say ammo. The owner might be more flexible on product that has high mark up. Since you need ammo anyway why not go ahead and have some thrown in for ''free''.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Here is another thread on why pawn deals do not always work out, even though you may think that your offer was more than sufficient. The bottom line here is that there are a myriad of reasons why negotiations fail and just because you don't understand the reasoning doesn't mean either you or the broker were out of line. It just means that your lines don't cross.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245616&highlight=pawn
This is a great example of my #2 from above. It does not matter what you think the broker has in the gun. Really all that matters is the price for which the broker is willing to part with the gun.
The notion that the broker only has about 15-20% in the gun is likely wrong anyway. First of all, brokers get few guns for which they would have that low of direct cost in and that is what aka108 is talking about, direct cost. Especially in better guns or if the store has a good gun market, they may be loaning anywhere from 40-70% of the amount for which they THINK they can move the gun.
What fixation on this direct cost number fails to account for are all of the indirect and unrealized costs that go into the gun that account for overhead. Yes, overhead exists as part of doing business, regardless of whether the gun is sold or not, but all income must be sufficient to meet all combined costs including overhead. Overhead, while often unrealized by the customers, is a very real cost that is realized by the pawnbroker (or any business owner).
Such costs include product risk of legality (if stolen, it almost definitely will be confiscated by the cops and $$ lost on the item) and function, months of shelf time (if pawned), time out for sale, handling time, building, security, environment, and wages.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245616&highlight=pawn
This is a great example of my #2 from above. It does not matter what you think the broker has in the gun. Really all that matters is the price for which the broker is willing to part with the gun.
The notion that the broker only has about 15-20% in the gun is likely wrong anyway. First of all, brokers get few guns for which they would have that low of direct cost in and that is what aka108 is talking about, direct cost. Especially in better guns or if the store has a good gun market, they may be loaning anywhere from 40-70% of the amount for which they THINK they can move the gun.
What fixation on this direct cost number fails to account for are all of the indirect and unrealized costs that go into the gun that account for overhead. Yes, overhead exists as part of doing business, regardless of whether the gun is sold or not, but all income must be sufficient to meet all combined costs including overhead. Overhead, while often unrealized by the customers, is a very real cost that is realized by the pawnbroker (or any business owner).
Such costs include product risk of legality (if stolen, it almost definitely will be confiscated by the cops and $$ lost on the item) and function, months of shelf time (if pawned), time out for sale, handling time, building, security, environment, and wages.
kermit315
Member
I wish I could find a pawn shop around here that sold guns.....none in Ventura County that I know of.
dralarms
Member
I used to have a good gun pawn shop around here, got all kinds of good deals. But his ex wife screwed him over and right now he is havng to clear up some "legal" matters so he can get his FFL back.
But to add to what everyone else is saying, the only thing I can offer is "never price another mans stuff" If he has a price on it then ask him what he would take for it? you might be surprised how low they will go when it's been slow. I bought 1 that was priced at 400.00 (don't remember which one) and I was going to offer 250 for it, insted I asked what he would take and he said 200.00 out the door.
But to add to what everyone else is saying, the only thing I can offer is "never price another mans stuff" If he has a price on it then ask him what he would take for it? you might be surprised how low they will go when it's been slow.
I bought 1 that was priced at 400.00 (don't remember which one) and I was going to offer 250 for it, insted I asked what he would take and he said 200.00 out the door. Axman
Member
There are a few gun shops that do deal in higher volume sales of used firearms. Sometimes they are just as low priced as the pawn shops. My local pawn is also a FFL dealer for various brands of firearms and the price is actually quite low even on the new stuff. Shop around a bit and see what the selection is before you decide.
oneshooter
Member
Always remember this, they make thier money on the LOANS, the selling is just a sideline. They DO NOT HAVE to sell guns, or anything else to stay in business.
Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
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