mormonsniper
Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 68
Paypal halts firearms transactions
- Thread starter mormonsniper
- Start date
- Status
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I don't do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots.
mtnmankev
Member
makes me all that much gladder i closed my account ages ago.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
Please advise on finding a close alternative.
Mike Irwin
Member
This was discussed here just the other day in Legal and Political, I believe.
My question is, how would PayPal know what the money is going for?
I've always just typed in misc. merchandise...
My question is, how would PayPal know what the money is going for?
I've always just typed in misc. merchandise...
Black Snowman
Member
Closed and made very clear why.
mtnmankev
Member
'twould be nice to find a good alternative, i quit using them and went back to snail mail.
BluesBear
member
Having had Play-Pal totally mess up one of my checking accounts and costing me over $500 in charges from my bank that NEITHER one will admit responsibility for I wouldn't use Pay-Poor to to buy a dollars worth of S&W N Frames if they were a penny a piece.
But there's enough stuffed bunny huggers and elvis plate collectors out there to insure that they never go broke.
But there's enough stuffed bunny huggers and elvis plate collectors out there to insure that they never go broke.
TheeBadOne
Member
I've sent an email and if so, they've lost one more customer.
Orthonym
Member
Anybody know how E-Gold is doing?
Orthonym
Member
Never did business with them myself, but
reading the posts here got me exercised enough to send them a nasty-gram. Don't worry, I was polite, didn't go NEAR as far as my post that Kaylee partially deleted in another thread. I think the worst things I said to them were "you bet your bolshevik bottom" and "Boys and girls, can you say un-American?"
reading the posts here got me exercised enough to send them a nasty-gram. Don't worry, I was polite, didn't go NEAR as far as my post that Kaylee partially deleted in another thread. I think the worst things I said to them were "you bet your bolshevik bottom" and "Boys and girls, can you say un-American?"
BluesBear
member
Haven't you noticed that both Auction Arms and Gunbroker have all removed the Pay-Pal logos from their auctions?
ACHTUNG! knee-jerkers:
Paypal did not forbid PAYING FOR GUNS with it's service. It only forbid using Paypal shops from selling firearms.
Big difference guys, and even if they did forbid transactions for firearms, they have no way of knowing what that money is for so who cares just go on using them. It's not like there's an alternative to their service.
Jeesh, do a damn search once and a while. Sorry, I've had to wade through this crap on 5 different boards and everyone's STILL clueless.
Paypal did not forbid PAYING FOR GUNS with it's service. It only forbid using Paypal shops from selling firearms.
Big difference guys, and even if they did forbid transactions for firearms, they have no way of knowing what that money is for so who cares just go on using them. It's not like there's an alternative to their service.
Jeesh, do a damn search once and a while. Sorry, I've had to wade through this crap on 5 different boards and everyone's STILL clueless.
BluesBear
member
This is from the PayPal website. (boldface added by me for clarity)
****************
PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
This Policy was last modified on October 16, 2003.
The Acceptable Use Policies below cover items bought and sold using PayPal, as well as any items sold or advertised on a website listed in PayPal Shops. Any Shops found to be violating these policies will be removed from the PayPal Shops directory. PayPal customers are ultimately responsible for making sure that the transactions they enter into using PayPal are legal. In addition, violation of these policies may result in your account access being limited or your account being closed under the terms of the PayPal User Agreement, regardless of whether the violation takes place through eBay or another online marketplace, through the seller's own website, or through any other forum. In all transactions, sellers must clearly and accurately describe the goods or services they are selling. If you encounter violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, please report them to PayPal immediately.
Firearms, Ammunition, Replicas, and Militaria Policy
You may not use PayPal to sell any firearm manufactured after 1898. Certain related items and high-capacity ammunition magazines are also prohibited, as described in more detail below. In addition, it is the responsibility of users to abide by all applicable laws when dealing with the sale of permitted antique firearms, ammunition, replicas, militaria and other associated items.
What is not permitted?
Firearms
You may not use PayPal to sell or advertise any firearms produced after 1898. This includes all "pre-ban," sporting, collectible, and curio and relic (C&R) firearms, regardless of their present capability to fire a shot.
Related items
In addition, you may not use PayPal to sell or advertise kits (that can be used to create a firearm) or illegal firearm components such as silencers, converters (which converts a firearm to automatic capability), and short barrels.
Ammunition
You may not use PayPal to sell or advertise high capacity magazines (magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds). In addition, sellers of other ammunition with propellant (such as gunpowder) are responsible for abiding by all laws and postal regulations.
Ordnance
In general, you may not use of PayPal in conjunction with the sale of ordnance (military weaponry, ammunition, and related parts) unless you can provide official documentation from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) stating that the item is unserviceable or demilitarized. Contact your local ATF office for more details on obtaining such documentation. You can also visit the ATF website for general information about firearms laws.
Grenades
You may not use PayPal to sell grenades, including metal military practice grenades, rifle grenades, dummy grenades, grenade launcher attachments, and mines. However, such items will be permitted if they are a relic, curio, memorabilia, or display item that is filled with a permanent inert substance or that is otherwise permanently altered in a manner that prevents ready modification for use as a grenade.
Replicas without proper markings
You may use PayPal to sell firearm replicas, look-alikes and imitations as long as they comply with Federal and state laws that require such items to have clear markings permanently affixed to the weapon. The most common requirement is a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of the item. This law applies even to novelty items, such as cigarette lighters, that are designed to look like firearms.
What is permitted?
You may use PayPal to sell antique firearms (before 1898) and most legal firearm components. This includes firearm related accessories, such as holsters, scopes, and ammunition without propellant.
Blank guns, replica or imitation guns, paintball guns, and "airsoft" guns may be listed provided that:
The item does not, and cannot be readily altered to, shoot a lethal projectile
The receiver is not a firearm as classified by law. See U.S. Code Title 18, Section 921
The replica or imitation gun has the legal markings required by law AND blank ammunition is not included in the sale. See U.S. Code Title 15, Section 5001
Even if the above conditions are met, PayPal does not permit the advertisement or sale of antique firearms or legal firearm components products on websites listed in PayPal Shops.
**************
Well Buckaroos & Buckarettes, that sure looks like they mean you can't buy and/or sell guns and use Pay-Pal to pay for them.
But then maybe I can't read English.
Either way I'll never again use Pay-Pal they're a bunch of CROOKS and they can sure mess up your bank account. I learned this the hard way.
****************
PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
This Policy was last modified on October 16, 2003.
The Acceptable Use Policies below cover items bought and sold using PayPal, as well as any items sold or advertised on a website listed in PayPal Shops. Any Shops found to be violating these policies will be removed from the PayPal Shops directory. PayPal customers are ultimately responsible for making sure that the transactions they enter into using PayPal are legal. In addition, violation of these policies may result in your account access being limited or your account being closed under the terms of the PayPal User Agreement, regardless of whether the violation takes place through eBay or another online marketplace, through the seller's own website, or through any other forum. In all transactions, sellers must clearly and accurately describe the goods or services they are selling. If you encounter violations of the Acceptable Use Policy, please report them to PayPal immediately.
Firearms, Ammunition, Replicas, and Militaria Policy
You may not use PayPal to sell any firearm manufactured after 1898. Certain related items and high-capacity ammunition magazines are also prohibited, as described in more detail below. In addition, it is the responsibility of users to abide by all applicable laws when dealing with the sale of permitted antique firearms, ammunition, replicas, militaria and other associated items.
What is not permitted?
Firearms
You may not use PayPal to sell or advertise any firearms produced after 1898. This includes all "pre-ban," sporting, collectible, and curio and relic (C&R) firearms, regardless of their present capability to fire a shot.
Related items
In addition, you may not use PayPal to sell or advertise kits (that can be used to create a firearm) or illegal firearm components such as silencers, converters (which converts a firearm to automatic capability), and short barrels.
Ammunition
You may not use PayPal to sell or advertise high capacity magazines (magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds). In addition, sellers of other ammunition with propellant (such as gunpowder) are responsible for abiding by all laws and postal regulations.
Ordnance
In general, you may not use of PayPal in conjunction with the sale of ordnance (military weaponry, ammunition, and related parts) unless you can provide official documentation from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) stating that the item is unserviceable or demilitarized. Contact your local ATF office for more details on obtaining such documentation. You can also visit the ATF website for general information about firearms laws.
Grenades
You may not use PayPal to sell grenades, including metal military practice grenades, rifle grenades, dummy grenades, grenade launcher attachments, and mines. However, such items will be permitted if they are a relic, curio, memorabilia, or display item that is filled with a permanent inert substance or that is otherwise permanently altered in a manner that prevents ready modification for use as a grenade.
Replicas without proper markings
You may use PayPal to sell firearm replicas, look-alikes and imitations as long as they comply with Federal and state laws that require such items to have clear markings permanently affixed to the weapon. The most common requirement is a blaze orange plug inserted in the barrel of the item. This law applies even to novelty items, such as cigarette lighters, that are designed to look like firearms.
What is permitted?
You may use PayPal to sell antique firearms (before 1898) and most legal firearm components. This includes firearm related accessories, such as holsters, scopes, and ammunition without propellant.
Blank guns, replica or imitation guns, paintball guns, and "airsoft" guns may be listed provided that:
The item does not, and cannot be readily altered to, shoot a lethal projectile
The receiver is not a firearm as classified by law. See U.S. Code Title 18, Section 921
The replica or imitation gun has the legal markings required by law AND blank ammunition is not included in the sale. See U.S. Code Title 15, Section 5001
Even if the above conditions are met, PayPal does not permit the advertisement or sale of antique firearms or legal firearm components products on websites listed in PayPal Shops.
**************
Well Buckaroos & Buckarettes, that sure looks like they mean you can't buy and/or sell guns and use Pay-Pal to pay for them.
But then maybe I can't read English.
Either way I'll never again use Pay-Pal they're a bunch of CROOKS and they can sure mess up your bank account. I learned this the hard way.
Fly320s
Member
It's really no surprise considering PayPal is owned by Ebay.
I closed my seldom-used account and added the following comments as to why.
I won't do business with a company that restricts the buying and selling of legal merchandise.
PayPal's new policy restricting my ability to buy and sell legal firearms and firearm-related products is the sole reason I am closing my account.
Obviously, PayPal is now letting emotion and politics dictate the way it runs it's business.
You should take a look at every product bought or sold using a PayPal account. Any one of those items could be used in an irresponsible or criminal manner. Any one of those items can be used to harm another person.
PayPal should just shut down. After all, "it's for the children."
I closed my seldom-used account and added the following comments as to why.
I won't do business with a company that restricts the buying and selling of legal merchandise.
PayPal's new policy restricting my ability to buy and sell legal firearms and firearm-related products is the sole reason I am closing my account.
Obviously, PayPal is now letting emotion and politics dictate the way it runs it's business.
You should take a look at every product bought or sold using a PayPal account. Any one of those items could be used in an irresponsible or criminal manner. Any one of those items can be used to harm another person.
PayPal should just shut down. After all, "it's for the children."
Mark Tyson
Member
Is it possible that paypal has legal concerns about people using their service to get items that are prohibited in their state? Notice the things they ban: "high"(full) capacity magazines, parts kits ... these things are banned in some of the more anti-RKBA states out there. They specifically exempt accessories like holsters and the like, things that are not banned anywhere. Maybe they just don't want to get caught up in some kind of legal mess if someone uses paypal to buy something they're prohibited by states law from having.
This says it all. You are not using thier services to sell anything. You are using someone else's service to sell it. All you are doing is making a financial transaction.
Besides, it isn't like they can send over the PayPal SWAT team and bust down your door even if they DID know you were buying/sellings guns.
GT
TheOtherOne
Member
They never say anything about using the service to pay for them.
Still, there stance is anti-gun and if ALL gun owners cancelled there accounts and stated why, they would reverse their policy. It's all about money to them. But there will only be 3 or 4 guns owners cancelling their PayPal, because they have the monopoly on online person-to-person payments.
It is corporate CYA, pure and simple.
Look at the list of banned items. Everything they forbid is stuff that has been banned in some US states.
They apparently don't want to end up in the next lawsuit brought about by Mass. or California.
Look at the list of banned items. Everything they forbid is stuff that has been banned in some US states.
They apparently don't want to end up in the next lawsuit brought about by Mass. or California.
BluesBear
member
The paypal site states;
The Acceptable Use Policies below cover items bought and sold using PayPal,...
Firearms, Ammunition, Replicas, and Militaria Policy
You may not use PayPal to sell any firearm manufactured after 1898....
According to this the SELLER sure can get it trouble with PP for selling prohibited items.
If you notice ALL of the sellers on Auction Arms and GunBroker have had to remove the paypal logos.
Perhaps we should get some of our members who are lawyers to give us a learned opinion.
The Acceptable Use Policies below cover items bought and sold using PayPal,...
Firearms, Ammunition, Replicas, and Militaria Policy
You may not use PayPal to sell any firearm manufactured after 1898....
According to this the SELLER sure can get it trouble with PP for selling prohibited items.
If you notice ALL of the sellers on Auction Arms and GunBroker have had to remove the paypal logos.
Perhaps we should get some of our members who are lawyers to give us a learned opinion.
Cosmoline
Member
My inner lawyer is yelling over this one. It strikes me as an illegal restraint of lawful trade. It's one thing for an AUCTION site to ban the auction of firearms. But Paypal functions much more like a bank. For them to decide you can't buy and sell LEGAL items because they dislike said items strikes me as illegal. It's like an anti-gun bank refusing to transfer funds for a legal firearms purchase.
I'll look into it. Maybe I'll sue them! It could be fun.
I'll look into it. Maybe I'll sue them! It could be fun.
King
Member
That's it for me...they're fired!! And no love lost........
aircarver
Member
It's the thought that counts !
......And my thought was ...... CANCEL !!!!
......And my thought was ...... CANCEL !!!!
Orthonym
Member
Is this what they mean?
You're not buying things from Paypal; you're not selling things to PayPal.
You're hiring PayPal to carry the money from buyer to seller.
So PayPal is your trusted courier.
Your trusted courier says he won't carry your money if he doesn't like what you're buying.
Doh! Fire the courier and hire one you can really trust!
You're not buying things from Paypal; you're not selling things to PayPal.
You're hiring PayPal to carry the money from buyer to seller.
So PayPal is your trusted courier.
Your trusted courier says he won't carry your money if he doesn't like what you're buying.
Doh! Fire the courier and hire one you can really trust!
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