Pentagon's Super Sniper Program
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jerkface11
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Sounds pretty sweet. I wonder if it will be available to us peasants?
lacoochee
Member
Probably not from DARPA, but if they can make the technology work, I am sure Leupold etc. will sit up and notice given the obvious application of the technology to hunting. In fact, I would be surprised if they weren't already working on the same type of technology at this point anyways.
Interesting. Sounds cool, but I see it throwing someone's money away.
My brief understanding of winds, is that over a given distance (for a specific terrain type) winds can fluctuate.
Still, it will be interesting to see if this works. So now the gov will be able to take out citizens under all kind of conditions.
My brief understanding of winds, is that over a given distance (for a specific terrain type) winds can fluctuate.
Still, it will be interesting to see if this works. So now the gov will be able to take out citizens under all kind of conditions.
MarshallDodge
Member
Oh brotherbigmike66 said:
I think it's a good idea to further technology. They should add in humidity and a rangefinder while they are at it.
jpwilly
Member
They will have to use some sort of radar...
nicholst55
Member
There have been scopes with laser rangefinders built in for several years now - (relatively) big, ungainly looking beasts - prohibitively expensive for the average hunter, too. A crosswind sensor isn't out of the question, nor is a cant sensor. Now, when they get it to where the scope automatically compensates for all of this (and more) like the Gunner's Primary Sight on the M1A1 tank does, then they'll have something going!
jerkface11
Member
nicholst55 by that point it will probably be easier to just build a robot sniper
I wonder if sniping will eventually evolve into some kind of man-controlled robotic system like in movies such as The Jackal and Shooter. Just plop down some kind of tri-pod mounted rifle, make sure it's point at the right person, and let it do its thing. Combine the elements of human judgment and mechanical precision.
32winspl
Member
You might check out the March issue of Shooting Times magazine. On the first inside page, there is an ad for a BORS system available from www.barrettrifles.com , and on pages is a writeup on it. It's $1500, if this is what you're referring to.
Robb
Robb
alsaqr
Member
"It's $1500, if this is what you're referring to.
Robb"
Plus the cost of the Leupold scope that goes with it: $1,200.
Robb"
Plus the cost of the Leupold scope that goes with it: $1,200.
Just use photons to guide the projectile, There are reduced diameter mortar rounds that can spot the coded flash of a laser beam and self correct. Just create a small, say 30mm shoulder launched laser guided device that can be used line of sight. 2000 yard range would be NBD, and it would automatically find that little dot regardless of the wind. have it switchable, from kinetic to active warhead. you would only need a ounce or two of pop in the nose. with it being guided, putting a little boom in the right place replaces a bigger boom in the general area.
The latest laser seekers are about the size of a D cell battery, all self contained.
The latest laser seekers are about the size of a D cell battery, all self contained.
Boanerges57
Member
there already are hyper velocity laser guided 20mm and 30mm projectiles that have been developed. I saw a research demo once but have never seen any in actual use.... Id be interested to see where they are now.
Fly320s
Member
I'm curious what technology will be used to "see" the wind. Last time I checked, wind can't be seen.
I know, particulate matter in the air (dust) can be seen. In fact, most commercial airplanes use the onboard radar to "see" the wind and determine whether there is a windshear event ahead of the aircraft. It works, but the radar dish, and associated equipment, is way too large to ever be used on a rifle.
I know, particulate matter in the air (dust) can be seen. In fact, most commercial airplanes use the onboard radar to "see" the wind and determine whether there is a windshear event ahead of the aircraft. It works, but the radar dish, and associated equipment, is way too large to ever be used on a rifle.
HorseSoldier
Member
Yep. There's not much point in basing your wind call off conditions where you are (or where your rifle scope is), since terrain effects, etc., can result in different speeds and directions at the target and along the path of the bullet.
For the thing to work, it would need to be able to gauge wind downrange as well as at the firing weapon, especially since the weapon and sniper may be down in cover, inside a building, etc., where the scope is not directly exposed to actual wind speed even at the firing point.
Wind calls aren't particularly exotic or hush-hush sort of stuff. But they are one of the hardest, if not the hardest, skills for new snipers to master, even in a training environment.
granted, terrain/conditions may not be homogeneous between the shooter and shootee, but given homogeneous conditions, wind at the shooter has more effect on the bullet than wind at the shootee. so in MOST conditions, basing your call of your location is better than nothing
bogie
Member
Well, a lot of "snipers" are better at hiding than they are at shooting.
FWIW, at 100 yards, a 5mph switch (all wind flags change direction) can move a bullet a good half inch out of the group.
At further distances, it gets bigger - I'd have a hard time understanding 1.5 metres, unless you're talking a 30-40mph switch, and then I'd be trying to wait for a letup.
BattleChimp Potemkin
Member
I noticed several scopes on the market that will rangefind, but you still ahve to enter the elevation. Why not make a programmable (I know, mall ninja-ish) scope that will rangefind, then based on the bullet drop programmed in, will adjust itself to that range. Would be awesome for prarie dog hunting (lord knows those guys already spend hundreds, even thousands on scopes, so it should be an automatic hit!).
Zak Smith
Member
The idea is for the device to produce a single windage correction number, based on the wind effects it detects from the muzzle all the way to the target. You can find some of the basic technology that has the potential to do this by googling around.
With regard to it being integrated into the riflescope-- Some care must be taken to not increase the critical path of time to make the shot. If there's too much fiddling around that must be done, it doesn't take much to become slower than a spotter reading out targets and distances.
-z
With regard to it being integrated into the riflescope-- Some care must be taken to not increase the critical path of time to make the shot. If there's too much fiddling around that must be done, it doesn't take much to become slower than a spotter reading out targets and distances.
-z
P-32
Member
You might not be able to see the wind but you can see the mirage in most cases. Some guys are really good at doping the wind. I'm not one of those.
atek3
Member
The technology has been around since the 1980's, it's lidar doppler wind-estimation. NASA needed a way to look at the wind above cape canaveral on the fly. Basically you fire a powerful laser and the reflection of the dust can tell you the wind velocity at whatever increment you need. I read several of the journal articles when I was exploring the feasibility of a civilian version...
The technology has problems:
1) Miniturizing the laser, laser-detector, ballistics computer, and rifle scope into one package that weighs less than 5 pounds would be tough.
2) The accuracy of the system is best when the wind is moving perpendicular to the axis of the laser beam, so if the wind is at 1 o'clock, the standard deviation on the estimate will be quite high.
3) The path of the laser beam and the path of the bullet at 1+ mile are very very different, accordingly the wind at 5 ft and the peak of the ballistic path might be very different
4) If the target is moving at all, the hit probability for 1+ mile shots will still be very low.
Remote wind-estimation is a good stepping stone technology, but the real winner will be smart-bullets with a MEMS nosecone and a passive laser seeker.
atek3
The technology has problems:
1) Miniturizing the laser, laser-detector, ballistics computer, and rifle scope into one package that weighs less than 5 pounds would be tough.
2) The accuracy of the system is best when the wind is moving perpendicular to the axis of the laser beam, so if the wind is at 1 o'clock, the standard deviation on the estimate will be quite high.
3) The path of the laser beam and the path of the bullet at 1+ mile are very very different, accordingly the wind at 5 ft and the peak of the ballistic path might be very different
4) If the target is moving at all, the hit probability for 1+ mile shots will still be very low.
Remote wind-estimation is a good stepping stone technology, but the real winner will be smart-bullets with a MEMS nosecone and a passive laser seeker.
atek3
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