People Call PD, then complain..

[Lonestar49]

...

I don't have a link, nor any paper of the story, but here is a short version from what I remember seeing on the local LA County Calif, TV news:

A semi, elderly, black Grandmother, called the local PD for help, as her young, aprox 23 yr old daughter was on drugs, and threatening her, and her baby, the young daughter had in her arms with a box cutter.

2 officers arrived at the seen, went into the upstairs apt, and found that the young mother with child, had barricaded herself and the baby in her bedroom.

The 2 officers quickly got inside her room, and tried to talk her down, and to secure the baby's welfare, that the grandmother/mother of the young girl, called for their help.

High on drugs, she warned them not to approach, or she would cut up the Baby, and the 2 officers made the quick decision to try and physically restrain her from doing that. She cut the baby, as she warned and cut both officers arms, then one of the officers decided that the baby was in peril, and took out his handgun and shot the young mother once, killing her.

The Baby was taken to the hospital, as well as both officers, as the baby needed 40 stitches, one officer required 30 stitches, and the other some 20 stitches, IIRC.

All this on the nightly News, showing the distressed Grandmother, yelling:

"They killed my baby, they killed my baby.." Along with, when she calmed down, during another interview, she said: "Yes, I called the PD because my daughter was up/high on drugs, threatening me and the Baby with a knife.."

"But they did not have to kill my baby, they're just all gun-happy.."


Where does it end..?


LS


*Personally, I think the 2 officers are nothing short of Hero's, and their efforts, wounds, along with the Baby's, reflect this, and their, the one officers, quick decision to end it, unfortunately, thru one shot, that killed the deranged mother of the child, but saving the Baby, and themselves.

*And I think the Grandmother, is nothing short of CarpetBagger, knowing that her 15 mins of fame, via News TV, that thru her actions, then her daughters actions, is nothing short of appealing to any Lawyer, for a free ride to the Bank..

Not a word of thanks, nor mention of the fact, that the real BABY, was not killed, but saved, less 40 stitches, along with the officers cuts requiring 30 for one, 20 for the other.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Lonestar,

*Personally, I think the 2 officers are nothing short of Hero's, and their efforts, wounds, along with the Baby's, reflect this, and their, the one officers, quick decision to end it, unfortunately, thru one shot, that killed the deranged mother of the child, but saving the Baby, and themselves.

I'll second that.

Selena

 

[Silvanus]

I agree with you. The only important thing in that situation was the child, not the "high on drugs" mother. The child and both officers still live, so I'd say they did a good job.

Pretty good shot placement BTW

 

[Invalid]

DON'T DO DRUGS IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT YOU CLOWNS

Cause a scene, cut a baby, get capped. Seems to make sense. There was a robbery at a Whataburger close to my house recently that ended with the 20-something robber catching four in the head after pointing a gun at the police. It turned out to be an airsoft gun, and throngs of people complained about police brutality in their decision to shoot.

I'm a pretty liberal guy, but pointing any kind of weapon at a cop, especially when you're held at gunpoint after committing armed robbery, will usually land you a quick and one-way trip to meet your maker. I don't have a clever anecdote for that- threaten cop, get shot. Basic rules, right?

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

*Personally, I think the 2 officers are nothing short of Hero's, and their efforts, wounds, along with the Baby's, reflect this, and their, the one officers, quick decision to end it, unfortunately, thru one shot, that killed the deranged mother of the child, but saving the Baby, and themselves.

A 3rd right here.

Only I wished they had killed her quicker. Poor baby...40 freaking stitches

 

[Hoppy590]

definatly could have ended better.

didnt need to shoot the woman. if your close enough to get cut im sure your close enough to land a solid right hook. some times brute force is whats called for

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Hoppy,

Item 1. I didn't see in the article where the officer cut was the officer that shot.

Item 2. The officers didn't set the ground rules the woman did. Asking anybody to meet an armed threat with hand to hand is at best unreasonable, at worst criminal.

Item last. Their mission was to protect the baby. They did so despite an armed aggressor that was intent on harming that baby. I must give the officers their due, had it been my two year old the woman wouldn't have lived long enough to make the first cut.

Selena

 

[Acera]

It's a shame that all the innocents got cut, now for the drug tests to see if they caught anything from the mother or her child. I pray that AIDS, Hepatitis or some other disease in not in either of the officers future. There are many ways their lives are risked in situations like this. Hoppy590 too bad you can't land the right hook to the Grandmother.

 

[Sniper X]

You see that kinda thing all the time if you ever watch COPS. The victem calls COPS, the police arrive, take the situation under control, then the wife/gf/mom/whatever complains about the person THEY called the cops on getting arrested! I can't beleive the mentality of ignorant Americans as depicted on COPS. I especially just loathe it when a black/hispanic woman calls the cops on her son then gets on their cases dropping the race card when they take her son into custody..for beating her and stealing from her...nice!

 

[Hoppy590]

Hi Hoppy,

Item 1. I didn't see in the article where the officer cut was the officer that shot.

Item 2. The officers didn't set the ground rules the woman did. Asking anybody to meet an armed threat with hand to hand is at best unreasonable, at worst criminal.

Item last. Their mission was to protect the baby. They did so despite an armed aggressor that was intent on harming that baby. I must give the officers their due, had it been my two year old the woman wouldn't have lived long enough to make the first cut.

Selena

both officers got cut.

ground rules or not. anytime some one dies, theres atleast one thing that could have been done better.

obviously you are an officers wife, and obviously you care that your husband makes it home at night. and i do too. but in the end, its to protect and serve the community. all members. those in thier right mind and those not.

Asking anybody to meet an armed threat with hand to hand is at best unreasonable, at worst criminal.

there are plenty of examples of unarmed cops dealing with knives or using thier baton to deal with it

being an armed threat should not warrent being shot on site. i understand the officers approach. he wanted to get that baby to safety ASAP. and maybe in this situation it was the best approach. but it should not be blindly accepted that if you have a knife. or even if you cut a cop for making a reach should you be shot. theres too many ways this could have ended better

* hoppy waits patiently for 10,000 angry replys about police making it home at night. and how we should always blindly obey the police at all times. ( the latter coming from a bunch of people who will also have "from my cold dead hands!" and the like in thier sigs)

 

[elrod]

It's a catch-22 for the cops. Damned if you have to hurt somebody ("he was such a good child, they didn't have to ________ him"), or be damned for not taking more severe action. The giverment dosen't have enough money to get me to police for them, and I only have the highest admiration for those who do. :banghead:

 

[strat81]

didnt need to shoot the woman. if your close enough to get cut im sure your close enough to land a solid right hook. some times brute force is whats called for

You have more guts than me if you plan on getting close enough (twice) to someone with an edged weapon. Blades are serious stuff at h2h distance, I sure wouldn't want to take one across the neck or wrist.

 

[seeker_two]

Personally, I think the 2 officers are nothing short of Hero's,

+3, 4, 5, or whatever number we're on now.

Probably should have shot Grandma, too. That way, the baby would be safe from following in "Mom's" footsteps....

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Hoppy,

To ease your mind my husband is an O3 in the US Army not an LEO. However, last year when he was in Iraq I made it quite clear to him that should someone threaten him with a knife he should empty the magazine and to hell with the Geneva Convention.

That said, in the little part of Indiana that I grew up one of the farmers used more than his share of migrant labor. I have seen knife wounds from working in the hospital there. I've also witnessed hand to hand training with knives both by the ROTC at the college I attended and here at Fort Campbell. Trust me on this, a knife IS a deadly weapon in the hands of someone intent on doing harm.

I have given my attitude to police excesses on other threads and need not repeat them here. However, asking anyone to answer a threat from a deadly weapon with anything less than another deadly weapon is silly. It ranks up there with the theory of a "fair fight" in the ludicrous dictionary.

I will state this as simply as possible, I expect LEOs to obey the laws they have sworn to uphold. I do not expect them to put their lives or the lives of others in unnecessary danger to fulfill some twisted ideal of "fairness."

Selena

 

[W.E.G.]

theres too many ways this could have ended better

I agree.

They should have shot her before she cut the baby.

 

[Mccallum]

Last I checked Self defense/defense of another standard was met for me as a private citizen. The drugged up lady was going to do harm and had started to harm the young child therefore one to the head is the only option in the situation!

 

[Geronimo45]

being an armed threat should not warrent being shot on site.

The threat existed. No shots were fired at that time. After blood was drawn, the threat was verified as lethal. Action will typically beat reaction... so it was a given that she could kill the baby before the cops could lay a solid hit on her.

If the woman had the baby in her arms at the time of her attack on the cops, you have a very limited striking area.

 

[elrod]

Hoppy590

there are plenty of examples of unarmed cops dealing with knives or using their baton to deal with it

That's correct, there are also accounts of people killing bears with a pocket knife.
Not the appropriate weapon, IMHO. Even with the use of deadly force, both officers and an innocent party sustained severe injuries, yet you think they should have used a stick???

 

[kungfuhippie]

hoppy 590,
It is tragic that this woman decided to take drugs, and threaten her baby's well being (as well as the well being of others) with a knife. She created the circumstances that resulted in her death. The cops did not use excessive force. They used appropriate force to stop her from harming the baby more. I hope cops are never dumb enough to get into a knife fight when a baby's life is on the line. Shooting her stopped the threat to the child.

 

[Muzzy_B]

Unfortunate situation for all parties involved. A baby that will never know its mother nor understand what led her to such foolishness, police officers scarred both physically and mentally, a woman dead, and a mother lamenting.

Hindsight is always 20-20. I'll step out on a limb and say that none of us were present at the time, so none of us know every detail that led to the officer's decision to use deadly force to save at least one life. I'm sure the decision was not made lightly, as he'll live with it for the rest of his life and undoubtedly spend many sessions in therapy while he works to regain emotionally stability. Bring in the trial lawyers when the mother throws a civil suit against him, and his situation gets even worse.

in the end, its to protect and serve the community. all members. those in thier right mind and those not

You are correct Hoppy, it is an officer's duty to perform all of the above duties. However, in life, there exisits a hierarchy of needs. At the time, the mother "in her right mind or not" was acting outside of the law and had to be reigned in. Babies are fragile, defenseless individuals. What happens if the officer engages the suspect in non lethal hand to hand combat to subdue her, the situation escalates, and the baby gets crushed in the process? Or, perhaps the baby and one or both officers are mortally wounded by the knife? That's just two of the countless scenarios that could have unfolded if given the time and circumstance. The officer had to weigh the decision and acted in favor of the greater good. Good shoot.

 

[camslam]

Here is the link and full story on the incident and should clear up several misconceptions. It looks like the cops tasered her before shooting and still had to use lethal force. Sad the mom died, but this poor 4 year old never had a chance at a decent life. Pathetic.

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_252174137.html

Sep 9, 2007 2:39 pm US/Pacific

Cop Shoots, Kills Box Cutter-Wielding Mother
(CBS) HAWTHORNE, Calif. A Hawthorne police officer and a four-year-old girl both required more than 30 stitches for cuts inflicted by the girl's mother as she cut both with a box-cutter, which prompted officers to shoot and kill the woman on Sunday, police say.

"My baby, my baby," wailed Mertis Curry, the dead woman's mother, as police investigated the scene.

The older woman told local news crews that she had begged police not to shoot Elaine Coleman, 21, as her daughter remained locked in a bedroom, holding the four-year-old, threatening suicide and brandishing the razor-sharp cutter.

"They really didn't have to do that, but I know they're gun happy," Curry said.

However, deputies said the police officers opened fire when Coleman slashed the little girl and a police officer. Coleman was waving a box-cutter and unaffected by a Taser gun.

Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies are investigating the shooting of the woman by the unnamed Hawthorne officer, who was sent to a house in the 14400 block of Lemoli Avenue around 12:50 a.m. today to break up a fight between Coleman and her mother, said Deputy Oscar Butao.

When officers arrived, they were told that Coleman had locked herself in the upstairs bedroom and yelled that she was going to commit suicide, Butao said.

Two officers entered the bedroom and saw Coleman holding her 4-year-old daughter hostage with a box-cutter knife. The officers told her to drop the knife and release the girl, but she refused, Butao said.

The Hawthorne officers first used a Taser stun-gun, which did not affect the woman, the deputy said.

As the police officers attempted to restrain Coleman, she slashed her daughter and both officers several times, Butao said.

In order to stop Coleman, one of the officers fired two shots, the
deputy said. She was pronounced dead at the scene.

"They just didn't have to kill my daughter," Curry said. "I begged them not to kill my baby but they did it anyway."

 

[strat81]

officers first used a Taser stun-gun, which did not affect the woman

Speculation... PCP?

 

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

hoppy waits patiently for 10,000 angry replys about police making it home at night. and how we should always blindly obey the police at all times. ( the latter coming from a bunch of people who will also have "from my cold dead hands!" and the like in thier sigs)

So...instead of waiting for someone else to make an asinine, simple-minded comment you've decide to pre-emptively issue your own.

 

[McCall911]

I also think it was a justifiable shooting in this sad, sad situation. Obviously the physical route had been tried and didn't work.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

In hoppy's defense, he hadn't seen the whole story, I'd imagine he'll change his tune now.

As others have posted about the mental rehibilitaion the cop will have to endure, I don't agree...That cop should see himself has a hero and nothing less. He tried to reason with the crazy junky, couldn't, and did what he had to do to save the innocent child.

Granted, I've never killed anyone so I have no idea what its like. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't feel sorry for anything.