Percussion Cap Question

[18Bravo]

I am restoring a double barrel blackpowder shotgun for a customer. I normally do not work on weapons of this age. There are no markings on the shotgun!!! It is a percussion cap type.

I was wondering when percussion caps first came into use? He would like to know the aproximate age as well as the manufacture of the weapon. Where else should I look on the weapon for that type of information?

Thanks,

 

[gmatov]

Percussion caps were invented in 1805. I doubt that your customer's double dates from then.

You would have to search more deeply than just to ask a question. I would think it is way post 1850.

Cheers,

George

http://armscollectors.com/gunhistorydates.htm

Check out this timeline.

"The shot-gun or fowling piece began its separation from the musket in the latter half of the 18th century and divorce was completed by 1850 "

So, if the fowling piece was a musket before then, it took some years for it to become a real double barrel shotgun of percussion persuasion. You might have a piece of 1870's or 1880's vintage.

Cheers,

George

 

[gmatov]

Chris,

Where else, on that piece, is there any stamping? That would help a lot

The site is populated not only by us neophytes but some genuine historians.

Any markings you can see, and describe fully, or photograph, would probably be of use.

Cheers,

George

 

[18Bravo]

I'll look

I plan on "trying" to disassemble the weapon for cleaning this week. I'm sorry to say that it is in very sad shape. I could not see any markings or stampings so far but if I do I'll let you know.

 

[unspellable]

percussion

The percussion principle dates from around 1805, but I think the percussion cap came later. There were percussion ignition systems in use before the cap. None as wide spread as the cap.

 

[Oldnamvet]

If it is a historic shotgun, I hope they don't intend to actually fire it.

 

[18Bravo]

It's Disassembled!!!

I was able to disassemble the Black Powder, Double Barrel, Percussion Cap, Shotgun today. It's in sad shape I was able to fix the trigger problem for him. But due to many years of abuse and Dry Firing I was not able to remove the "rusted in" nipples. The Stock is cracked in a bad way.

I do have good news for some of you. There are several "proof" type marks and one set of numbers. The one proof mark that is still legible is an oval with the letter "E" at the top; below that the letter "L" on the left; next to that the letter "G" on the right. Below the "LG" is a five pointed star. The ont set of legible numbers is: "660TT"

I will be contacting the owner today informing him that it's too far gone to ever be shot.

 

[justashooter]

percussion capped double guns were common from 1840 thru 1890. yours is probably post civil war. cartridge double guns weren't common until the 1870's.

this gun could be a shooter, but i would not use it in that way. the barrels were probably forge welded on mandrel, and black powder gasses under pressure will force corrosive priming salts and sulphur compounds (acids) into the weld seams in the barrels, rendering them unsound.

 

[Gatofeo]

My "Official Guide to Gun Marks, 3rd Edition" says that your proofmark of

E
LG
*

is the Belgian blackpowder proofmark, in use since 1810.
Belgium has a long history of producing arms. The most famous arms-making city is Liege, whose craftsmen began making swords, armor and related arms in the Middle Ages. Later, firearms began to be made there.
Liege is the site of the famous arms maker, Fabrique Nationale or FN. Making firearms for the world is still a major industry in Belgium.
The famous gun inventor John Browning went to Belgium about 1898 to have his first semi-auto pistol made, because American arms makers weren't interested in it. He relied upon the expertise and craftsmanship of Belgian gunmakers to make his gun.
Browning still has a presence in Belgium, though I'm not sure how much.
Why did Liege become such a major arms center? It sits on rich beds of coal and iron ore, and is next to a major waterway. Hard to get a better situation than that.

Anyway, Belgium exported millions of rifles, shotguns and handguns to America in the 19th century. Few were of high quality; most were average or shoddy. It appears that Liege flooded the hungry American market with guns as fast and as cheaply as they could be produced.
Today, it is not uncommon to find a shotgun or revolver, of questionable quality, shipped to America in the 1800s from Belgium. From what I've seen, there were more Belgian-made double-barreled shotguns than anything else.
Most of the rifles exported to America from Belgium were cheap, .22 rimfires and such. Seen a few of those.
I'd be mighty suspect of any imported, 19th century gun. It's probably a good thing that that shotgun is too far gone to be fired. I wouldn't trust it with black powder loads, let alone smokeless powder.
It's a wall-hanging decorator. Leave it as such.

 

[18Bravo]

THANK YOU!!!

Thank you very much! The owner will be quite pleased. I would not of known where to begin to look for such a proof mark.


Thanks again

 

[sundance44s]

would the owner like to sell it , i might just have a place on my den wall that would fit it ..

 

[18Bravo]

I doubt it...

I don't think he would like to sell it. It's been in their family for a long time from what he told me. I refinished the stock and it turned out great; they used a gorgeous piece of wood. I plan on doing the metal on Thursday. More than likely when I'm done I'll take pictures and put them on my web site.