Big Mike
Member
+1 = Exactly. This is the question, if they ask you to leave and you're carrying concealed.
If you're open carrying, then ...
Perkins Restaurants - anti-gun corporate policy
- Thread starter mrokern
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+1 = Exactly. This is the question, if they ask you to leave and you're carrying concealed.
If you're open carrying, then ...
Except, we in no way need to conceal in MN. The company has also said explicitly said that concealed carry is not welcome either.
Your call if you want to spend money with places that don't care for your 2A rights. Me, I'll fight.
-Mark
Your call if you want to spend money with places that don't care for your 2A rights. Me, I'll fight.
-Mark
SigP229R
Member
WNCSEABEE would you mind if I cut pasted and use this letter ?. This is perhaps the best response I have seen.
jfh
Member.
1. akodo's summary of the MN posting / carry law in #9 is a good one.
2. If MN business--excepting Churches, IIRC--must post a proper sign to fulfill the legal side of a "no guns" policy. But, the carrier must leave if asked, regardless. In my admittedly limited travels since I started carrying, I've seen less and less signs here in MN.
By writing letters, I've gotten a sign or two removed--the "dissatisfied customer" routine does work if the management is not ideologically antigun.
WNC Seabee: That's a good letter to leave / send. I'd like to make a variant for my use here in MN--any objections?
Jim H.
2. If MN business--excepting Churches, IIRC--must post a proper sign to fulfill the legal side of a "no guns" policy. But, the carrier must leave if asked, regardless. In my admittedly limited travels since I started carrying, I've seen less and less signs here in MN.
By writing letters, I've gotten a sign or two removed--the "dissatisfied customer" routine does work if the management is not ideologically antigun.
WNC Seabee: That's a good letter to leave / send. I'd like to make a variant for my use here in MN--any objections?
Jim H.
Update
Perkins has rescinded their policy!
They have now decided to not have a general policy against the carry of firearms. Obviously they reserve the right to remove someone for dangerous behavior (as they well should), but they have now stated from corporate that permit holders are welcome in their restaurants, and that the large numbers of emails and phone calls made them rethink their policies.
Congrats, and thanks, everyone!!!!!
-Mark
Perkins has rescinded their policy!
They have now decided to not have a general policy against the carry of firearms. Obviously they reserve the right to remove someone for dangerous behavior (as they well should), but they have now stated from corporate that permit holders are welcome in their restaurants, and that the large numbers of emails and phone calls made them rethink their policies.
Congrats, and thanks, everyone!!!!!
-Mark
jfh
Member.
excellent.
Thanks for the update, Mark.
Jim H.
Thanks for the update, Mark.
Jim H.
Nate1778
Member
Our one and only Perkins burned to the foundation due to their smoking policy. Someone took there smoke outside, flicked it to the surrounding mulch, and bam, structure fire.......
jfh
Member.
scotthsi:
I will point out that the removal of the "No Carry Allowed" signs at Perkins
1) has nothing to do with food quality, and
2) has nothing to do with social styles.
But it has everything to do with eliminating unsafe social situations and discouraging the "guns are bad" mantra from the antigun crowd.
Your opinion on food quality and appearance is not relevant to the discussion at hand, and having an attitude proves nothing on this forum. It detracts from the on-topic conversation.
Keep it in mind.
Jim H.
I will point out that the removal of the "No Carry Allowed" signs at Perkins
1) has nothing to do with food quality, and
2) has nothing to do with social styles.
But it has everything to do with eliminating unsafe social situations and discouraging the "guns are bad" mantra from the antigun crowd.
Your opinion on food quality and appearance is not relevant to the discussion at hand, and having an attitude proves nothing on this forum. It detracts from the on-topic conversation.
Keep it in mind.
Jim H.
MT GUNNY
Member
The owner of the Perkins here in Kalispell, MT Is glad to have Armed Patrons at his restaurant. OC /CC either one he don't Care.
rbernie
Contributing Member
Excellent work to all involved. It is always useful to our cause to pursue making businesses more RKBA-neutral, even if the business in question is not one that you're particularly interested in patronizing.
Activism is useful; ignoring activism opportunities is not.
Activism is useful; ignoring activism opportunities is not.
jfh
Member.
"...eliminating unsafe social situations...."
I agree, I wrote that poorly. IMO, a Perkins w/o a no-carry sign and allowing carry is, however, arguably a safer place to be.
Jim H.
bnkrazy
Member
That is an excellent letter. I will get something similar typed up that fits VA law and have some available for businesses I run across while out and about.
ETA: Oh, and awesome job getting the policy changed. If more businesses realized how much they stand to lose by enacting these policies, we would see more and more places change their stance. Especially in this economy. If you decide to stop visiting an establishment because of an anti-gun policy, LET THEM KNOW. Otherwise, they will never know how much that policy affects their bottom line.
Last edited:
denfoote
Member
There's a reason why they call it a CONCEALED WEAPON for God's sake!!
jfh
Member.
denfoote: You're right, of course--at least in the sense if nobody knows you are carrying, then how can they complain? What we have in actions like this is a campaign by carriers to get those signs removed, as a means of minimizing antigun politics.
In the first six-twelve months after our shall-carry law was passed, this posting issue was the political battlefront. Signs were everywhere, including places that could not legally post them. Six years later, the signs have gradually come down, and pro-carry / pro-firearms advocates have succeeded in minimizing antigun actions.
Perkins, for whatever reason, was one of the hangers-on. The only posting these days that I see are in the limited government areas (courts, law enforcement, etc.), some churches, and businesses caught up in antigun ideology.
Jim H.
In the first six-twelve months after our shall-carry law was passed, this posting issue was the political battlefront. Signs were everywhere, including places that could not legally post them. Six years later, the signs have gradually come down, and pro-carry / pro-firearms advocates have succeeded in minimizing antigun actions.
Perkins, for whatever reason, was one of the hangers-on. The only posting these days that I see are in the limited government areas (courts, law enforcement, etc.), some churches, and businesses caught up in antigun ideology.
Jim H.
jfh
Member.
"turned away" letter--MN version 0.9
for question or comment:
I am a bit rusty on MN law--so any inaccuracies, please tell me for a revision.
Jim H.
for question or comment:
Dear Business Owner/Manager,
I attempted to visit your business today but were turned away by your "No Firearms allowed" sign. I respect your rights as a property owner/lease holder and will not visit again. I just wanted to let you know a little bit about who you've decided not to do business with. Every legally licensed Handgun-Carry Permit holder that you turn away...
- Has obtained a Minnesota permit to purchase a firearm from his local law enforcement agency.
- Has passed a Federal and State Criminal Background Check.
- Is not a Felon.
- Has never been convicted of misdemeanor violent crime or domestic abuse.
- Has attended and passed an course mandated by the state covering the responsibilities and legalities of concealed carry.
- Has passed a proficiency test in the use of their firearms.
Studies show that permitees are five-to-ten times more law-abiding than the general population.
Can you say the same for your other patrons? Do you know who is a shoplifter, thief, scam artist, or worse? If your patron is a Handgun-Carry Permitee, you can be assured h/she is not a threat.
Do you expect criminals carrying a firearm to be deterred by a sign?
Thank you for reading this note--
Best Regards,
I attempted to visit your business today but were turned away by your "No Firearms allowed" sign. I respect your rights as a property owner/lease holder and will not visit again. I just wanted to let you know a little bit about who you've decided not to do business with. Every legally licensed Handgun-Carry Permit holder that you turn away...
- Has obtained a Minnesota permit to purchase a firearm from his local law enforcement agency.
- Has passed a Federal and State Criminal Background Check.
- Is not a Felon.
- Has never been convicted of misdemeanor violent crime or domestic abuse.
- Has attended and passed an course mandated by the state covering the responsibilities and legalities of concealed carry.
- Has passed a proficiency test in the use of their firearms.
Studies show that permitees are five-to-ten times more law-abiding than the general population.
Can you say the same for your other patrons? Do you know who is a shoplifter, thief, scam artist, or worse? If your patron is a Handgun-Carry Permitee, you can be assured h/she is not a threat.
Do you expect criminals carrying a firearm to be deterred by a sign?
Thank you for reading this note--
Best Regards,
I am a bit rusty on MN law--so any inaccuracies, please tell me for a revision.
Jim H.
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