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Permanently Locking In The L&L Bushing

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by David Wile, Sep 8, 2009.

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  1. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey folks,

    In the past week (maybe two) or so, there was a thread wherein there was discussion of the L&L bushing feature and probably comparison to the Dillon tool head. Someone, I cannot remember who, mentioned that he did not consider the L&L bushing to be a benefit to him and that he was considering doing something that would permanently lock the bushings in place and he would go back to screwing in and adjusting dies.

    The more I have thought about his comment, the more I am thinking I would like to lock my bushings in place and go back to screwing my dies in place and adjusting accordingly. I am a bit reluctant to do anything such as weld the bushings in place, but I would like to hear what that fellow had in mind.

    I have tried several searches on bushings, but I cannot find the one comment from the fellow who mentioned locking his bushings in place more or less on a permanent basis. Can anyone tell me who made the comment so I could discuss this further?

    I know - I'm going back to the future.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  2. Shoney

    Shoney Member

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    Easy as pie. Use salmon skin and bubblegum.

    Drill through the tool head into each station hole at a right angle. Tap the hole, and put a set screw in.

    Then when you regain your sanity:what:, you can loosen the set screw for quick removal of the bushing/die/PM/et cetera/et cetera/et cetera. Then you eat the bubblegum and salmon skin.:evil:
     
  3. MNPyro

    MNPyro Member

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    I wasn't a part of that conversation, but Loc-tite makes several different variations of their "glue" and you can research which one will do what you want, but I think it's red bottle will hold solid for as long as you want, but you can "break" it free without too much trouble for when you want to use the bushings the way they were meant to.
     
  4. Fractal X

    Fractal X Member

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    Alternatively, you could use a few drops of the blue (NOT red) locktite. This would make it removable with some effort but would not require any machining.

    ETA: Just FYI, the blue locktite just requires a bit of elbow grease to come undone, the red locktite requires hi temperatures and elbow grease to come undone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  5. WLE

    WLE Member

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    I'm with Shoney.......Why ???? Presetting the dies with the lock an load feature makes this presses versitile I would not even consider to glue the sleeves the only option I would consider would be a drill and tap and a set screw.
     
  6. TRguy

    TRguy Member

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    Sounds like the search to a answer of a question no one is asking. And if you are asking that question maybe you would be better off drinking blue koolaid.

    I love the bushing system relative to the toolhead on the dillion. Rock on Red koolaid!
     
  7. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    David, I'm with you! Quick-change bushings are an excellant solution for which we have no problem. It takes what, twenty seconds to exchange screw-in dies? I own something like 90 individual dies, even if I wanted the things I wouldn't buy that many!

    IF you know you want to make it perminent just use a dab of epoxy on it. But, if you ever wanted to sell it, that quick-change idea appeals to noobs so permanent could cost you a buyer. You COULD hot-glue it in tho, that would hold it securely and a bit of heat from a propane torch would let you back out if you wish. The glue is the path I would take!

    Whatever method you use, do it with hard UP ram pressure so there will be a solid metal to metal contact when you work with it.
     
  8. BigJakeJ1s

    BigJakeJ1s Member

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    If you really want to do it, just get the threaded bushings that RCBS Redding or Lee include with their single stage presses (the same threaded bushings you replace with the Hornady press conversion bushing to use LNL die bushings).

    I'd think twice against it though.

    Andy
     
  9. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey folks,

    I'm asking the question here, I am not nobody, and I am not alone. As stated in my original post, someone else mentioned the idea of fixing his bushings because he did not like using them. There is at least one other person on the forum who has referred to the bushings as a solution looking for a problem.

    I am not trolling for an arguement here. If you have read any of my posts concerning the Hornady L&L AP, you would know that I had one of the first ones sold back in 1997, you would know that I like my machine very much, and you would know that my machine works just fine the way I purchased it - I have not had to make any of the new EZ-Ject changes or whatever.

    So give me a break here. I am not telling everyone to stop using their L&L feature. I am simply saying that I think I would rather stop using the feature for myself. I spent the first five years of owning my machine without ever buying any more bushings. After five years, I finally broke down and bought a bunch of extra bushings. I still do not keep bushings on expanding and seating dies since I am constantly making adjustments for different bullets.

    I am simply asking who it was that mentioned it a week or so ago so I could get some more information to make a better informed decision on my part. And for those who may want to really bust my chops, I have also written many times that I have no use for an automatic case feeder and would not take one for free. Hey, you die your way, and I'll die mine.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  10. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey Ranger,

    I just saw your post after I made my last post. Thanks for the ideas. After reading what you said, I suspect it was you who made the comment I was trying to find. I have always liked my L&L press, but not because of the L&L feature. To me, the bushings are a pain in the neck. Well, I might just alter that last statement to at least acknowledge that I do sometimes appreciate the bushing for the sizing die which I really do not make any changes. However, there are times when I want to use that sizing die in one of my single stage presses, and I have to take it out of the bushing.

    Thanks again. I was starting to feel like I was becoming pesonna non grata with some of the Hornady owners.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  11. Canuck-IL

    Canuck-IL Member

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    David,
    I posted in that thread last week - but, I can't find it now either. Another thread disappeared Sat evening but I chalked it up to being a For Sale item that broke some rule or other...I do believe some threads are just evaporating.

    Anyway, from memory, there were no tips offered nor did anyone claim to have done it. One guy posted that IF he had a bushing set-up, he'd permanently affix the bushing - one later poster agreed with the tired refrain, "Solution w/o a problem."

    BTW, I like my bushings flexible; I don't have as many bushings as dies but, when I need one, they spin off the die quickly enough for me.

    /Bryan
     
  12. jeepmor

    jeepmor Member

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    You want the red loctite.

    As for the bushings, how much you want for them? I like mine, a lot. The versatility may be touted by others as not needed, but I really like the time they save me. However, I have found that I put just a touch of "wrench" on the bushing to be sure it doesn't move on me, until I want it out.
     
  13. Shoney

    Shoney Member

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    I have to agree that for loaders that only change a few dies occasionally, no bushing isnecessary.

    I prefer the bushings most when I load rifle cartridges. On some occasions I remove four stations and resize/prime and then do case prep, whatever I may need done. This would be a problem with the case activated PM in place.

    When case prep is compleat, I pop out sizer, and pop in PM and seat/crimp.

    For loading lead in pistols, I am too "sub-frugal" to buy another crimping die for seperate seat/crimp operations, again removing 4 stations and crimping with one station, which is quick, easy, and versitile.

    You may only save 3-5 minutes on each change/changeover, but that is important to me in when time saving adds up.
     
  14. snuffy

    snuffy Member

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    It was me. Here's my statement;

    On this thread.
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=473113

    Now, there are numbers for locktite, along with the colors. 609 and 680 green locktite will cure pretty hard. It works when you remove air from it by putting it in a confined space, like threads or a bushing. It's anaerobic. 277 and 271 red are maximum holding strength fixatives. All it takes to get any locktite loose, is some heat, um quite a bit of heat for the red variety.
     
  15. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey Snuffy,

    Thanks for the reply. That is exactly what I was trying to remember and find. I would like to send you a PM with some more questions if you don't mind.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  16. double d

    double d Member

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    Check Gargodude's 8/20/09 post " A better way to lock your dies".
    It's also on FiringLine.
     
  17. double d

    double d Member

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    Check Gargodude's post on 8/20/09 titled "A better way to lock your dies".
    It's also posted on FiringLine.
     
  18. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    Why do you need to lock them in place? Seems to me you could leave them in the machine and just screw your dies in and out of them. What will it add, 1/4 turn each way?
     
  19. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey Sport45,

    "Why do you need to lock them in place? Seems to me you could leave them in the machine and just screw your dies in and out of them. What will it add, 1/4 turn each way?

    For the first five years I owned my AP, I actually did use it the manner you described. I did not have any extra bushings and simply screwed the dies in and out all the time. I do not mind screwing the dies in and out. The problem to me comes when I am making final and fine adjustments to the expanding die and the seating and crimping die. To get the exact adjustment I want, I have to screw the die in a little bit at a time until I get the right adjustment. This process usually requires my moving the die in and backing it back out a bit for the finished setting.

    With a regular single stage press, it is quite simple to move it in and out in fine increments. With the L&L bushing it becomes a pain in the neck to me. As long as you are going in, it is OK, but when you want to back it out a bit, the bushing then turns back and unlocks, and it makes it more difficult to do my fine adjusting.

    Now, once you get your seating and crimping die set the way you want it in the L&L bushing, you certainly can lock the die at that spot and really change it in and out of the press thereafter. However, this is only true if your intention is to never change bullets and you have no intention of using that die in a single stage press again. As soon as you want to change bullets or use the die in your single stage press, you have to give up all your hard work of adjusting the die in the L&L bushing and start over again.

    I constantly go back and forth between my AP and my single stage press, and I do not want to spend the money to buy extra die sets for each purpose.

    After my first five years of using the AP, I did buy a bunch of extra bushings and found that I was leaving a bushing locked in place on some of my sizing/depriming dies. Once the sizing die is set, I don't have to readjust it if I make a bullet change or whatever. However, I still had the same problem if I wanted to use the die in a single stage press, and I do a lot of work on a single stage press. Prior to my moving in 2005, I had a shooting range in my basement, and I was constantly doing tests of different bullets and such that it was far easier for me to use one or more of my single stage presses rather than the Hornady AP. While I do not have a shooting range in my basement now, I still find I have lots of small jobs to do on the single stage presses.

    After thinking a good bit about locking the bushings in place, I am considering locking the bushings in Stations 1, 2, and 4 and giving that a try. They are the stations I usually use for my dies. I usually charge my cases in Station 3, and I would want to keep that bushing in working order because it actually facilitates my changing powder settings by quickly removing the powder measure assembly. I never use Station 5 so I cannot see any need to lock it in place at this point.

    I do not want to permanently change my machine, so I am not so inclined to drill and tap any holes to hold the bushings in place. I am still thinking this through, but I think I might be inclined to try locking them in with Lock Tite. I am also inclined to use the blue first to see if it holds since it can be removed easier with less heat than the red if the time comes when I want to remove them.

    Some years before I bought my AP in 1997, I had a friend who had the earlier Hornady progressive version which I think was called the Projector. I thought that was a great press, and using his led me to prefer the Hornady over the Dillon. However, my buddy had a number of things he disliked about his Projector. He was a machinist by trade, and he made all kinds of cuts, welds and holes to his machine to make it the way he wanted it. His machine looked a bit like Dr. Frankenstein had put it together, but it really did work very well.

    I am not a machinist, and I am more inclined to take pride in keeping my machine looking the way it did when I bought it. My machine has worked very well from the beginning, and that includes my original primer feeder, wire ejector, and other parts that other folks have complained about. Even my bushings work as they were intended. They are still original with the original "O" rings, but they still lock in place and stay in place without working loose like some folks have complained about. I think my idea of locking the bushings in Stations 1, 2, and 4 will make me happier using the machine, but it will not do anything that will permanently change it into a Frankenstein.

    So Sport45, I hope that give you a better idea of why I want to get rid of the L&L feature on at least three of my five stations.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  20. showmebob

    showmebob Member

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    David Wile
    Thanks for the explanation! I sometimes get frustrated (just a tiny bit) doing fine adjustments. Reading your post I came up with an idea for a quickly reversible solution to locking the bushings in place.
    But, I'm at work and need to look at my press to make sure it will work before making a fool out of my self (been there done that)
    If it looks like my idea will work I'll try to post tomorrow.
     
  21. David Wile

    David Wile Member

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    Hey Bob,

    Thanks for the reply. I havn't done anything as yet, so I am looking forward to hearing what you come up with. Please let us know what you are thinking.

    Best wishes,
    Dave Wile
     
  22. wild willy

    wild willy Member

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    Try several wraps of teflon tape on and under the o ring my powder measure kept working loose and I used the tape used too many wraps the first time had to turn it loose with pliers I just use a couple on the powder measure hasn't worked loose but I can still turn it out to dump if you want it really tight use more tape
     
  23. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Most of my dies stay put after locked down in the bushings, but they are mostly only going to be used on the LNL. When swapping dies from my old threaded Projector to my RCBS single stage press they had to be readjusted anyway, so it's no different now if I want to use them on the RCBS.

    For crimp dies that will be used to give varied crimps (.357 for instance) I only hand tighten the die in the bushing because I use spacers under the die to make adjustments in crimp. I have the crimp die set for a heavy crimp and use spacers to adjust for a lessor crimp when needed.

    For me, and the way I use crimp dies, I could "lock" a bushing in the 5th station for that, although sometimes I seat and crimp at the same time in station 4.

    I would like to see a nicely made crimp die made where you can adjust the amount of crimp with an upper adjustment instead of turning the die body, similar to the Lee FCD, but without the o-ring slop. (And without the "post sizing" of course ;))

    Maybe I'll contract someone to make some of my own design......yea right. :)

    I guess I could try to make one. That would try my patience for sure, being a real novice/beginner/wanna be machinist. :D
     
  24. mongoose33

    mongoose33 Member

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    WildWilly, would you explain further? I'm not sure i understand where you're putting the teflon tape. My PM tends to work loose and I'd love a method to settle it down from its wandering ways.
     
  25. wild willy

    wild willy Member

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    Just stick the LNL bushing on your finger and wrap the tape around it over the o ring one width of tape is enough it works better if you degrease the o ring and where it fits in the press
     
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