personal thoughts on open carry

[csmkersh]

I carry just as I have insurance and a fire extenguisher; I'm not expecting trouble but wish to be prepared if---

Now if I expected trouble, I'd

1. Not go there in the first place
2. Or bring my shotgun.

Done both.
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[buck00]

I think open carry is about some trying to show off how "macho" they are.

This is valid criticism. There are some guys who enjoy the reaction, attention, and the feeling of being openly armed in public. I even heard one guy brag "we are the modern day Jedis!" about OC.

There is an open carry forum where a lot of the posts are these guys "testing the water"- open carrying in malls, restaurants, crowded places, etc and then getting in arguments/situations with security, police, managers, or regular citizens. What is the point of causing that issue?

Why not carry concealed and not only avoid alarming people, arguments, and harassment... but more importantly- keep a tactical advantage over perps. If a perp is about to take down a bank, and he sees a Bubba-Gump keyboard-commando mall ninja open carrying in line.... guess what, he is probably getting one in the back of the head at the start of the robbery. Way to give away your advantage because you saw too many Westerns.

CCW is common sense from a self-defense point of view and public relations point of view.

Before I get flamed, if you live in a small town where everyone knows everyone and you can OC without an issue... great, more power to you, sounds like a fine town. But if you've been thrown out of a mall for OC and you're pissed off about it, maybe you need to check yourself. JMO

 

[claytonfaulkner]

CCW is common sense from a self-defense point of view and public relations point of view.

thank you for that statement

 

[WayneConrad]

guess what, he is probably getting one in the back of the head at the start of the robbery.

Show me the money.

Come to, say, Prescott, Arizona, where open carry is common. Does this happen? Has it ever happened? Can you find a single documented instance of this happening? People can and do carry openly in banks in Prescott (and many other cities in Arizona), and banks do get robbed in Arizona. It should be easy for you to find a newspaper article where someone got "one in the back of the head at the start of the robbery" if this is the likely result of carrying openly.

Proof rather than conjecture. Data rather than old wife's tales. That's all I ask.

 

[csmkersh]

Wayne, this is the same "blood in the streets" scenario the VPC and HCI predicted every time a stated considered CCW in the last 30 years. It's the best argument they've got, despite it NOT happening.
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[fearless leader]

In the state I originally got my CCW, open carry was legal. The only reason I got my CCW was so I didn't HAVE TO wear my gun outside my coat in the winter or have it out as a temptation to little children. (If you think they won't reach up and try to grab it, think again!) It also kept me from answering 20 questions: why do you have a gun? Is that real? Is that registered? Are you a policeman? Is it loaded? Can I hold it? You get my point?

Other than that, I liked open carry. Particularly now that I gained so much weight. It's much easier to conceal if you're skinny.

 

[springmom]

It's six of one and a half dozen of the other to me what anyone wants to do. Myself, I'd open carry in a heartbeat if Texas ever allows it. Why? As has been noted before, you can carry a larger firearm more easily (you can bet I'd have my BHP on my hip if I didn't have to try and conceal it!) There is zero data to prove that old saw about "you'll be the first one taken out in a robbery". And it would simplify getting to the gun in a hurry if I need it.

I carry my Kimber in a Jagwear belt pouch; and my snubbie IWB. But getting to either one takes probably a second or two longer than just being able to reach and pull out of a OWB holster. That is time that might save my life.

Besides, hang it all, it ought to be my decision, not the state's.

Springmom

 

[claytonfaulkner]

im trying to look at this through a criminal stand point.... if im robbing a place and i see someone has a gun before i start the actually robbery, my first priority is going to be to disarm them, or eliminate them.... ok so maby this scinario has never happened, but its completly logical to beleave that it COULD happen.

and you want to see a video of someone getting shot that is carrying openly before they get a chance to even draw there gun.... watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X14ID3zybSk&feature=related

 

[JesseL]

im trying to look at this through a criminal stand point.... if im robbing a place and i see someone has a gun before i start the actually robbery, my first priority is going to be to disarm them, or eliminate them.... ok so maby this scinario has never happened, but its completly logical to beleave that it COULD happen.

Sure it could happen, but it never does. Most criminals in that sort of scenario don't closely examine everyone in the bank/convenience store/etc.. They tend to have tunnel vision, focused on their objective of getting the money and getting out. An openly carried sidearm is not equivalent to a flashing neon sign, despite the way you may feel the first time you carry.

and you want to see a video of someone that is carrying openly before they get a chance to even draw there gun.... watch this

Apples and orangutans. A police officer confronting someone is in no way equivalent to a civilian open carrier, minding their own business. That cop would have been shot in the face whether he was armed or not.

 

[Zoogster]

CCW is common sense from a self-defense point of view and public relations point of view.

Before I get flamed, if you live in a small town where everyone knows everyone and you can OC without an issue... great, more power to you, sounds like a fine town. But if you've been thrown out of a mall for OC and you're pissed off about it, maybe you need to check yourself. JMO

Personaly I am thankful to such individuals. It means that if I choose to come along and open carry, or a concealed carry is exposed, the local authorities will be well versed in the law on that topic. It means they will be less likely to react in a hostile fashion or like things are out of place simply because an otherwise normal individual has or might have a firearm.

Even more so if the previous individuals did it in a way far more "testing" than myself. It means they set the bar for what locals are familiar with high enough that I won't have to be a test case myself when not trying to be with more moderate behavior.

im trying to look at this through a criminal stand point.... if im robbing a place and i see someone has a gun before i start the actually robbery, my first priority is going to be to disarm them, or eliminate them.... ok so maby this scinario has never happened, but its completly logical to beleave that it COULD happen

That one who likely has tunnel vision and is nervous will notice something on someone else's hip, and will then still proceed to commit the crime they intend.
That is possible, some criminals are that dumb, and rather than waiting for the person to leave, or leaving themselves they will continue.
However I think most that still have half a brain are not trying to place themselves in a position where they have to commit murder when trying to rob a place.
Murder gets a lot more resources and manpower, people that devote thier entire careers to solving them full time. Robberies usualy get far less resources.

So while being such a criminal is foolish to begin with, one has to be very stupid to intentionaly place themselves in a situation where commiting a murder is likely to result, even if they are a sociopath that has no regard for human life or others. That is because they are simply far more likely to be caught if someone dies, nevermind the punishment is more severe.

 

[fearless leader]

Quote: claytonfaulkner said:
well lets say someone is carrying in a owb holster but the gun is still complety hidden, by a shirt or jacket or soemthing

Until you bend over, or sit down.

 

[Markbo]

It would really help understand people's perspective if they would identify where they are from. If AZ, NM & VT are the only open carry states, why is this even much of an issue here?

 

[Zoogster]

It would really help understand people's perspective if they would identify where they are from. If A, NM & VT are the only open carry states, why is this even much of an issue here?

Actualy most states are open carry states at some level. Some require no license, some require a license. Others only allow open carry in some portions of the state, or have no pre-emption so most local areas have prohibited it even though the state allows it.

Open carry has a much older history than concealed carry. Open carry was the definition of keeping and bearing arms for generations even when many thought those who carried concealed were cowardly, and no honest man carried concealed.
Concealed carry was practiced legal and culturaly acceptable more in places like the UK, not America.
Only assassins, criminals and men without a backbone carried concealed in the United States, or at least that was the general consensus. Honest men carried openly until the early 1900s. Open carry was still legal and barely restricted or unrestricted in most of the nation until the civil rights movement, and various laws restricting it passed in the 60's and 70's.
People started protesting and marching with long guns openly which was perfectly legal, and legislatures decided to put an end to that with the passage of various legislation across the nation.

That is why you see the ability to restrict concealed carry even in some state constitutions that do not reserve the right to restrict open carry, and were formed back when open carry was the normal carry, and concealed carry the exception.

Since those times various laws have been enacted in places restricting open carry to various degrees. It is still however quite widespread.
Only a handful of states prohibit open carry in most situations. One of them is Texas, your state (which is usualy more favorable on firearm laws.)

 

[Floppy_D]

I have the choice of either in Virginia, I choose CC... only because I feel it draws less attention. I have nothing against either... I have no problem with open carry... I just like to remain low-key.

 

[chris in va]

It's been discussed at length already. Just do a search for 'open carry'.

Personally I've had some negative experiences with OC. Wish that wasn't the case.

They tend to have tunnel vision, focused on their objective of getting the money and getting out. An openly carried sidearm is not equivalent to a flashing neon sign, despite the way you may feel the first time you carry.

Actually I know of a guy in southern VA that thinks his OP thwarted a bank robbery. Guy walks in with a ski mask and heavy coat, sees his sidearm...mulled it over and left. This was Suntrust Bank IIRC.

 

[Sato Ord]

Open carry isn't an option in Florida. However, I wish it was.

I prefer open carry for several reasons, the first and foremost being comfort. I have broken my back in five places, and I have at least seven, badly herniated discs. I prefer open carry over concealed because I can wear a real gun belt that doesn't ride up on my waist band. Let people think what they want about "playing cowboy", putting the extra weight of my cell phone on my belt line is painful, and even a light weight gun weighs more than that.

I've thought about the shoulder holster option, but that requires some big bulky clothing to cover it. I live in the Florida and the mean temperature in the summer is really mean, like often running triple digit. Add the heat index for the humidity, and a sport coat, or other bulky over coat or shirt is not only a dead give away that you are hiding something, it simply makes going outside beastly. Also, I've had my left shoulder reconstructed and that limits my cross draw maneuverability.

As for being somewhere and having a bad guy try to rob the place. I would think the bad guy would be casing the joint and see the guy with the gun and either wait until I'm gone, or move on to easier pickings. I agree that most bad guys are basically lazy cowards. They're not very bright either, or they wouldn't be doing crimes that have so much risk for so little gain.

Back in the 70's I carried openly in Colorado. No one ever batted an eye at anyone carrying a firearm openly when I was there, even in a city as big as Colorado Springs. I've heard that's changed, and I think it is a change for the worse.

That being said, I do understand that there are those who would find being around strangers who are openly carrying uncomfortable. I am not out to upset anyone, but I am all for defending myself. Therefore, I will bite the bullet, so to speak, and get my permit and carry on my belt.

I've never been fashion conscious and have decided that I will just wear big baggy Hawaiian shirts that have such obnoxious patterns no one will notice any print from my gun, even if I carry a howitzer.

 

[moga]

Actually I know of a guy in southern VA that thinks his OP thwarted a bank robbery. Guy walks in with a ski mask and heavy coat, sees his sidearm...mulled it over and left. This was Suntrust Bank IIRC.

I remember hearing about this. The guy is a member of VCDL. There was a write-up about it in his own words floating around the interweb last year. I may have read it at the VCDL web site. He was OC a 1911 strong side OWB and the bad guy lost is nerve and ran out the bank soon as he noticed the carrier's weapon. At least that was the opinion of the tellers in the bank at the time.

I don't OC but there are times, like today, that it would serve me well. Because it was warm today in ATL. I didn't really feel like wearing "carry clothes" while at the mall. OTOH, there are those whom I know that have educated many curious people on the laws and RKBA in general when they OC. I see that as a immensely beneficial fringe benefit for the people of my state. A positive public perception is a great aid in the fight for our rights in the legislature.

 

[jrfoxx]

Open carry has a much older history than concealed carry. Open carry was the definition of keeping and bearing arms for generations even when many thought those who carried concealed were cowardly, and no honest man carried concealed.
Concealed carry was practiced legal and culturaly acceptable more in places like the UK, not America.
Only assassins, criminals and men without a backbone carried concealed in the United States, or at least that was the general consensus. Honest men carried openly until the early 1900s. Open carry was still legal and barely restricted or unrestricted in most of the nation until the civil rights movement, and various laws restricting it passed in the 60's and 70's.

Excellent point.If open carry was/is so dangerous, and getting people killed left and right, then why was it the norm for SO long? If OC was getting Lots of people Killed by criminals, I think people would be smart enough to say "hey, maybe CCW isn't just for scoundrels, assassins,and criminals, it's for smart people who don't want to be the first ones shot!" But that wasnt the case and isn't how it happened. Same thing now. In all these threads, no one has EVER produced a single story about someone OCing getting taken out at the start of a robbery or such, and its not due to a lack of crimials or OCers, so there must be another reason, like its never happened or is INCREDIBLY rare.

Also, all cops OC, and I don't hear of a lot of criminals going into the 7-11 to rob it, seeing a cop, and just blasting him then going on with the robbery.What more likely happens is they see the cop and his gun and figure "I'm going elsewhere or waiting till he leaves, so I don't get caught or killed!" Also,I OC all the time here In a city of 150,000 hardcore soccer moms and liberals. This town is VERY well know for it's ultra liberal ways inthis state. So far no cops have stopped me or been called, no one has said a word, and I havent even seen any evidence ( like whispering, pointing, staring, etc) that anyone even noticed or cared. And I have OC'd in the heart of downtown, in the public library, about 2-3 buildings away from the courthouse and sheriff's office. No problems.

Oh, and I dont do it for attention or stir things up. I do it cause it's WAY more comfortable, I can get to my gun faster and without ANY risk of it snagging on my clothes, and I Think criminals are more likely to leave me alone and look for an easier target, or at least wait till I'm gone to rob someplace.there is just NO reason for them to just shoot me. All it does is make LOT of noise and attract attention, that will likely get the cops called.Why bother when all they have to do is Wait 10 minutes till I'm gone and then commit their crime and not hav to worry about it at all? It's not like they have a deadline and cant wait 5 minutes to rob a store. Why do it the dangerous and hard way if they don't have to? It just makes no sense.

If people dont want to OC for whatever reason,thats fine.They have that right, and I wont say a single word about it. But apparently we OCers dont get that same courtesy here, as EVERY thread on this subject has people sayng we're hurting the cause, we're stupid, we're giving away the point of having a gun, we're trouble makers, mall ninjas, have giant egos, are looking for attenion, tryng to be macho etc.Funny how I never see the OC people making accuations and calling CCW people names or putting them down for their choice.Why the hostility for people who simply those to exercise thier rights, within the law, differently.Seems kinda like the people who think EBR's are bad, usless, and should be banned so the govt will leave thier hunting guns alone. Also the same exact arguments against OC are made every time, and every time people ask fo ANY evidence of any of it happning, and nothing is produced but more name calling and negativity.Think about that when you talk about who is hurting the cause, has a big ego, or is being macho and looking for attention.Seems to me that fits the pople making the most noise,name calling, and presenting thier opinion as fact with nothnig to back it up than it does the OC crowd.

Dont want to OC? then dont do it.But dont call me names and make baseless accusations about me and my motives just because I choose to do it within my rights and the law.

 

[Tribal]

I've got my CHP, but I actually kind of like OCing (although I usually do a "lazy CC" where my shirt or jacket is at least partially covering it). It's a way to help push the boundaries beyond us having to beg to even CC. I firmly believe that in a culture where guns weren't feared so irrationally the Virginia Tech shooting would not have occurred.

 

[JWarren]

Typically, the schism on Open Carry is indicitive of the schism between Urban and Rural America.

Around here, open carry is a thing that you do when it is required, and no one bats an eye. And it has "Zero" to do with being "Macho."


But no one carrys openly to make a "point." If they do, its because they envision the possibility of needing the gun.

It kinda makes it convienient that way. For instance....

You find that you need a gun, and you look down and say... "Hey, there's my gun. How convienient."

But even we country boys have figured out that it doesn't work so well if you have the above thought process in --- say, First National Bank of Commerce on Main Street.

Those who don't live in this world, I am afraid, will never truly understand that point.

As I've said before, people have a real difficulty seeing the world through a lens outside their own. Oh sure, it is fashionable to empathize with others, but when rubber hits the road, we fall back on what we KNOW, not what we THINK.

I say this a a person who lives in the country, who was raised in the country, but has spent half my life living in 4 out of the 10 largest urban markets in the USA.

Thank God, I am back home now.


-- John

 

[Winchester 73]

Show me the money

I'll take some of that money,too.
I work daily with dozens of LEO's,almost all of whom(except a small group of undercover ops trolling for druggies,johns,etc) OC.
In almost 20 years, none has been "taken out" before a store robbery,bank heist,carjacking, what ever ,TMK.
Furthermore,being an avid follower of the news via papers,mags,MSM,et al ,I have never heard of a so called "civilian" being ambushed in this fashion.
It's a myth.But a very powerful,strong myth being perpetuated continually and even right now as we speak on this forum.
It's time to bury it and put it to rest.
Open carry of a firearm puts NO ONE at greater risk than concealed carry.
On the contrary,I feel the opposite is the case.

 

[jimbeam]

I think zoogster and jrfoxx cover it quite well in their essay on concealed carry vs. open carry. In Wisconsin I have no choice but to open carry, which I do to a limited extent, but plan to do more, as that is my only option. I find it curiously amazing that in Wisconsin we can open carry with no permits, but Texans have concealed carry, but no open carry. Enlighten me as to the reason behind this law in Texas, as I thought this state was the most gun friendly in the nation.

 

[Elza]

For me it is a moot point as it is not allowed in Texas (yet). If it becomes legal I really don’t know how I’ll react.

I like it because of comfort and accessibility. It might desensitize some of the sheep so they don’t pass out from seeing a gun. Plus the more people realize how many are carrying and the streets aren’t “running red with blood” the more they will recognize BS anti-gun rhetoric when they hear it.

On the other hand someone might make a grab for it. This would result in a serious fight! And there is the possibility of becoming the first person on the BG’s ‘take out list’ if things started to go pear shaped.

I’ll come to a firm decision if it becomes legal in Texas.

 

[Winchester 73]

Enlighten me as to the reason behind this law in Texas, as I thought this state was the most gun friendly in the nation

Jim,Texas as much as I love it ,is far from America's most gun friendly state.
A lot of time,training and money has to be spent on garnering a weapons permit.And with all that no Open Carry.
Compare with Vermont and Alaska(no permit,no nada needed,put on gun and go to town)Idaho,Wyoming,Arizona,New Mexico where OC is very accepted. And we have to wonder about not only Texas,but Oklahoma,Florida,Arkansas and South Carolina, states of the old Confederacy ,where OC is verboten.
We have to hope sanity(and the meaning of the 2A prevail)and this changes in the near future.

 

[Elza]

jimbeam: Enlighten me as to the reason behind this law in Texas, as I thought this state was the most gun friendly in the nation.

The laws against OC in Texas date back to Reconstruction. Following the Civil War it was a way to disarm blacks. Whites would be ignored but blacks would be arrested. It laid around on the books for all of the years following. In this era of the great anti-gun crusaders it is proving difficult to get repealed. We are trying but it is slow going to say the least.

As far as gun friendly in general Texas is not a bad place at all. It has some quirks but is far better than most but not as good as others. My big complaint is the $140 price tag they put on our CHL’s. I got mine for half price because I’m a veteran. Not that I want to seem ungrateful for this, but $70 is still way out of line. Name any other Constitutional right that we have to buy from the state!!!!! It’s better than not having it at all but it still irks my butt.