personal thoughts on open carry

[loop]

Once again I have a "*** is the problem?" attitude.

I live in rural NW Arizona where it is well accepted, so my opinion may not be too relevant, but I simply do not understand why it seems to be an issue.

I carry concealed when I'm working and open when I'm not working. It's as simple as that.

If you don't like it that's fine, shut up and leave me alone.

For generations, going back to before the Revolutionary War, men in my family have open carried. My family has never missed a declared war in the history of the US.

It is my right, paid for with the blood of my ancestors. You got an objection, shut up and leave me alone.

Gun owners questioning whether they should open carry where it is legal is just beyond my comprehension. I thought that territory belonged to the liberals.

Here's my question: If you are a gun owner and for some reason have a fear of letting people know you are carrying a weapon, what are you going to do if you should happen to need to defend yourself or you loved ones? Worry about what somebody else might think?

If that's the case you might as well sell your gun.

 

[TAB]

Loop... I think you just drove my point home very well...

 

[csmkersh]

jimbeam, Elza was pretty much on target.

What most people don't know, Texicans included, it that only handguns are regulated in this State. Possession of a rifle or shotgun, loaded or unloaded, is legal with very few exceptions such as court houses and national parks, etc.

​

 

[JesseL]

Loop... I think you just drove my point home very well...

Really?

I see a pretty wide distinction between being 'macho' (i.e. trying to impress people through an overt display of masculinity), and loop's attitude of doing as he pleases and if you don't like it don't bother him about it.

 

[Markbo]

Is Texas still the only state where you rountinely see pickups with rifles/carbines hanging from racks in the rear window?

I have heard exactly zero on any possibility of open carry coming to Texas. But it is a good reason to contact my elected representatives and tell them that I expect to see some legislation presented from them on the subject soon.

 

[Sato Ord]

Loop, I liked your response to this thread.

I wish circumstances were different and I could move out to Arizona. Everyone I've met from there has been an individualist and someone worth knowing. Add to that that I love the area and the dry climate, and I often wonder why I'm still beating my head against a brick wall trying to make it in this depressed area. One day I will buy a nice place in Arizona and put the east coast behind me.

 

[Ltlabner]

Once again I have a "*** is the problem?" attitude.

My responce on a similar thread...It's not about being afraid of offending someone. It's about picking and choosing your battles wisely. Keep in mind, I live in a state where OC is not common, and the laws are murky, at best.

Frankly, I find the attitude that if you actually engage your brain as to when to OC/when not too that you are a coward, wouldn't use your weapon and should sell your gun simplistic and annoying. I also find the "too hell with them, I'm doing what I want and they can bugger off" attiude no different than "nobody should have guns because I say so" attitude. Doesn't do much to actually advance our agenda. Sorta like "winning" an argument with your wife where you are technically in the right, but it's far better off to be the bigger person and just let it go.

If you OC into a crowded store (say Wall-Mart) on Saturday AM when everybody is grociery shopping don't be suprised when someone complains. And guess what, it's likely to be an anti, a soccer-mom or a lib that wants to protect the world. You really think they will be swayed by you OC'ing in a peacefull manner? I've met anti's who are being threatened by stalkers who have already made attempts to kill them who still can't bring themselves to touch a gun, let alone use it. Your walk through Wal-Mart is not going to do anything to sway them, and will only give them ammo to freak out and say "it's so dangerous to have a gun around all those children....". Yea, big progress there.

OC in the the same store later in the day, or the early morning. You are far less likely to stir the crowd into a frenzy and if you run into someone currious about guns, they might actually stand and talk to you for a bit. THEN you have an opportunity to educate them.

OC at a crowded street fair...someone will go bonkers. OC in the small shops on the same street during normal working hours...you'll likely be engaged in a less freaked out manner and be able to discuss the situation amicably. Again, THAT'S when you actually have a chance to educate them.

You (generalized you) can say I'm an anti-gun pro-gunner if you wish for not demanding to do whatever I want, when I want and how I want. But if you really stop and think about it, there's a HUGE difference between picking your battles wisely and being anti-gun.

I don't begrudge anyone for OC. I just think that if you are REALLY wanting to educate people via OC there are ways that are more productive than just strapping on and diving in.

 

[Ltlabner]

The mark of a professional is that few people know that they go about armed.

- Mas Ayoob. pg 178 Combat Handgunnery 6th Edition.

Maybe I'm taking Mas's words out of context, and if so I applogize. However, this strikes me a pretty good advice.

 

[XDKingslayer]

I think we should be allowed to open carry.

 

[Mainsail]

This is valid criticism. There are some guys who enjoy the reaction, attention, and the feeling of being openly armed in public…
Why not carry concealed and not only avoid alarming people, arguments, and harassment... but more importantly- keep a tactical advantage over perps. If a perp is about to take down a bank, and he sees a Bubba-Gump keyboard-commando mall ninja open carrying in line.... guess what, he is probably getting one in the back of the head at the start of the robbery. Way to give away your advantage because you saw too many Westerns.

I wish people would think just a little before posting nonsense like this. I could lay out innumerable scenarios where open carry would be tactically superior to concealed.

Here’s one, and one that’s much more likely than your Hollywood fantasy style bank robbery:

You’re walking along one evening and two nervous gang-banger looking teens walk up, pull a knife, and demand your wallet. (This happens almost daily in larger cities) You draw from concealment and shoot the one with the knife, killing or crippling him (pick one). The police determine it is a fully justified shooting and the prosecutor does not press charges. You’re golden, right? We’ll put aside all the macho nonsense about how you’ll not feel any regret for killing a teenager, and focus on the civil suit you’ll be facing from his family. Their closing argument will include the following:

Mr. Concealment testified that he had $32 in his wallet at the time of the shooting. $32 dollars ladies and gentlemen! Mr. Concealment valued the life of young James at only $32, ruthlessly gunning him down in cold blood for merely asking for a few dollars so he could buy himself a meal. Now this A student, who never meant to harm anyone but was actually just acting on a dare from a friend, lies on a slab in the morgue...

Do you think you’ll win? It really doesn’t matter, you’ve already lost. The legal bills alone could bankrupt you and your family even before the jury decides.

I think that the ones hoping to show off how ‘macho’ they are, are the same ones who promote the mythical advantage of carrying concealed for the ‘surprise’ factor. They are hoping that they will be robbed so they can whip out their piece and say something witty, “Do you feel lucky punk?”

As for me, I would prefer to deter a criminal and never have to shoot anyone.

 

[JesseL]

If you OC into a crowded store (say Wall-Mart) on Saturday AM when everybody is grociery shopping don't be suprised when someone complains.

I open carried in two Wal-Marts just yesterday morning. Lots of crowds, zero complaints. Same thing at the grocery store.

OC at a crowded street fair...someone will go bonkers.

Not, in my experience. Last year for independence day, I OC'd my big ol' 1858 Remington around the downtown street fair - nobody went bonkers. The only time I was caught feeling awkward was when a historical reenactment group was having an event and I was the only dude walking around with a double action revolver.

OC in the small shops on the same street during normal working hours...you'll likely be engaged in a less freaked out manner and be able to discuss the situation amicably.

Nope, none of them cares enough to say anything either.

I guess we've got something pretty extraordinary going here, but apparently it's pretty hard to believe if you don't live here and have some experience with OC. People in Arizona are really okay with open carry (even the soccer moms ).

I've had 9 years of open carrying here and nobody has had a more negative reaction than the one guy who asked "why do you need a pistol to walk down the street?" That's it. That's as bad as it gets.

 

[Ltlabner]

I've had 9 years of open carrying here and nobody has had a more negative reaction than the one guy who asked "why do you need a pistol to walk down the street?" That's it. That's as bad as it gets.

Again, keep in mind you are in AZ where OC is common and accepted.

I live in a state where it is very rare to see anyone OC. There's a world of difference and applying the AZ standard to another less gun-friendly state doesn't make a lot of sense, IMO.

I'm only responding with reference to my geographical area.

 

[Markbo]

The posters from AZ all say the same thing... they do it all the time, it is common here, it is normal, no big deal, etc, etc.

Please keep in mind that AZ is the EXCEPTION and not the rule in todays U.S. I wish it were an option in Texas... but compared to the rest of the country you are on the fringe.

 

[rjohnson4405]

Frankly, I find the attitude that if you actually engage your brain as to when to OC/when not too that you are a coward, wouldn't use your weapon and should sell your gun simplistic and annoying. I also find the "too hell with them, I'm doing what I want and they can bugger off" attiude no different than "nobody should have guns because I say so" attitude. Doesn't do much to actually advance our agenda. Sorta like "winning" an argument with your wife where you are technically in the right, but it's far better off to be the bigger person and just let it go.

I don't think him saying "I'll do what he wants leave me alone" is anything like someone saying "nobody should have guns because I say so."

He's making a lifestyle decision that's HIS RIGHT and nobody else's business. It's not limiting anyone else's rights or forcing his beliefs on their lives. The other person is restricting everyone's RIGHTS based on their beliefs. They are restricting other people and making lifestyle choices for them. Night and day if you ask me.

 

[Ltlabner]

He's making a lifestyle decision that's HIS RIGHT and nobody else's business. It's not limiting anyone else's rights or forcing his beliefs on their lives. The other person is restricting everyone's RIGHTS based on their beliefs. They are restricting other people and making lifestyle choices for them. Night and day if you ask me.

No, I think the attiudes have a lot in common.

They both boil down to "I know what's best and everyone else can kiss my grits". Their end results are vastly different, but they both come from the same place, IMO.

 

[Mainsail]

I live in a state where it is very rare to see anyone OC. There's a world of difference and applying the AZ standard to another less gun-friendly state doesn't make a lot of sense, IMO.

I guess you think we’re psychic because there’s nothing in your post where you reveal your location.

The posters from AZ all say the same thing... they do it all the time, it is common here, it is normal, no big deal, etc, etc.

Please keep in mind that AZ is the EXCEPTION and not the rule in todays U.S. I wish it were an option in Texas... but compared to the rest of the country you are on the fringe.

I can’t think of many places less gun friendly than the liberal bastion of Seattle, and we carry openly here all the time.

This past Saturday I wore my Sig P239 openly on my belt while riding my bike in downtown Tacoma during the annual Daffodil Parade. I rode or walked past soccer moms and kids, past the huge police presence, and through the crowds without incident.

Of course, whenever we point out flaws in the theories about open carry, it gets ignored and several posts later someone else will come along and post the same unsupported theories all over again.

 

[SuperNaut]

I got pretty beat up about this when I first joined, but it hasn't changed my opinion: I still think open carry is vulgar.

I'm not saying anything about our right to do so, or about anyone's intelligence, or about anything else that I've been accused.

We all have the right to wear a t-shirt that says F**k You! on it, but we don't because it would be vulgar.

Feel free to go low-road and reinforce my point.

 

[tepin]

I agree with everything you said.

not sure if this is the right place to post this because im not talking abou the LEGAL rights of open carry but just personal opinion. i see no reason for it to be illegal but i am against it. i dont like anyone that i am not close friends with to know that i have a gun. carrying concealed protects your own safety in a few way, you dont have to worry about being harassed for carrying openly and i would hate to be standing in line at a gas station with a pistol on my hip as someone runs in to rob it and sees the gun before i have a chance to draw it. i guess im saying that its ok for you to, but i would never do it.


but i was just wondering how yall feet about open carry.

 

[WayneConrad]

I still think open carry is vulgar.

Is it vulgar to be black, or Jewish?

It was once widely considered to be so, you know.

Why is it still considered vulgar to be armed?

 

[SuperNaut]

Why is it still considered vulgar to be armed?

*sigh*

I never said I thought it is "vulgar to be armed."

 

[WayneConrad]

If it is not vulgar to be armed, why must you hide it?

 

[SuperNaut]

If it is not vulgar to be armed, why must you hide it?

I think that the reason is a lot larger than it seems at first blush. We would have to find agreement about whether humans are primarily social creatures or not. We would then have to determine which regional norms we have in common, including rural/urban/suburban dynamics. Then we would have to determine our mutual agreement upon which of these social norms we consider valid and applicable to our purpose.

Or we could just agree to disagree.

 

[JesseL]

They both boil down to "I know what's best and everyone else can kiss my grits". Their end results are vastly different, but they both come from the same place, IMO.

You couldn't be more wrong on that.

One attitude boils down to "I know what's best for you, and if you don't like it you can kiss my grits." This is the essence of tyranny.

The other attitude boils down to "I know what's best for me, and if you don't like it you can kiss my grits." This is the essence of liberty.

 

[JesseL]

Again, keep in mind you are in AZ where OC is common and accepted.

Keep in mind you were replying to loop, who is in AZ.

 

[WayneConrad]

SuperNaut, You're dancing around it.

Let's set the wayback machine to when Jews were not accepted in mainstream America. Show up in public wearing jewelry or clothing that identify you as a Jew, and it would be considered vulgar. Hide it, and it would not be vulgar.

I want to know why being armed is different than is being Jewish.