Personalized/single owner guns in the near future?

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real_name

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I'm not happy about this, as a fairly new shooter I am still adapting a grip and hand position that works best for me. And that's probably the most trivial of my reasons to dislike this proposed change to gun ownership.
What about selling used guns?
Those situations where using someone (possibly incapacitated in a skirmish) else's gun saves both your and their life?
What about common sense?

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/14660214.htm
As police in Philadelphia struggle to stop a scourge of shootings, some New Jersey engineers say they are closing in on a "smart" solution: a gun that can be fired only by its owner.

The prototype, developed at the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark, has pressure sensors embedded in the gun handle that recognize a person's unique grip.

The team says a commercial model is up to five years away, but if it works, it will trigger a singular - and controversial - state law. Within three years, all handguns sold in New Jersey would have to be personalized, with this or some other recognition technology.

Michael Recce, who dreamed up the grip-recognition concept in 1999, said the only obstacles are time and money.

"It's an engineering problem, not a scientific problem," he said.

However long it takes, it's safe to say the university has embarked on a product-development quest like no other - wading into a contentious issue on the fault line between red and blue America.

Various smart-gun efforts have flamed out in the past, amid vocal skepticism by the National Rifle Association. Many gun owners chafe at the notion of any restrictions on their Second Amendment right to bear arms, and warn that any such modifications would make guns more expensive.

Gun-control advocates, meanwhile, are split, with some warning that personalized firearms would give owners a false sense of security.

Most see New Jersey's 2002 law as a commonsense safety measure, but they are starting to run out of patience.

"These guns should have been developed 20 years ago," said Bryan Miller, executive director of Ceasefire New Jersey.

Duke University economist Philip J. Cook estimates that if all handguns were personalized, more than 4,000 lives would be saved each year from fewer murders, accidents and teen suicides.

Though the New Jersey law exempts law enforcement, police might also benefit from the technology. According to FBI statistics, as many as one in six officers killed each year is slain with his or her weapon.

In the last few months, Recce's team has crammed the necessary electronics into the handle of a prototype, so the firearm no longer must be tethered to a computer.

Inside the grip, 16 ceramic discs generate a charge when pressed. They are called piezoelectric sensors, from the Greek piezo, for "pressure." Barbecue lighters use a similar feature.

Once the shooter squeezes the trigger, the grip sensors spring into action, recording the pressure for one-tenth of a second. In that moment, the pressure applied by each finger varies enough that engineers can distinguish between shooters with a high degree of reliability. A grip's signature does not vary significantly from firing to firing, even in stressful situations, researchers have found.

A year and a half ago, a prototype recognized authorized users nine out of 10 times. Now, the rate lies between 95 and 99 percent, said Michael Cody, a computer science engineer on the team.

The goal: at least 99.95 percent - or good enough that the recognition process fails less often than a regular gun would jam or fail. A higher success rate will require better placement of the 16 sensors; currently, four or five do most of the work.

The latest prototype still holds just one 9mm round, and while it recognizes its user most of the time, it cannot prevent others from firing it. Both problems are surmountable, Recce said.

Solving the first problem means creating more room in the handle by designing small, custom batteries and circuits to replace the clunky, off-the-shelf parts, team member Timothy Chang said.

The second problem - preventing a gun from being fired - has already been studied by other manufacturers.

The most sensible approach may be to marry Recce's recognition technology with a gun that fires electronically - without mechanical, moving parts such as a hammer. If an authorized user were recognized, it would be a simple matter to turn on the firing circuitry.

Recce estimated that his revolving team of graduate students and postdocs could develop a market-ready product in five years, and that a private company could do so in three.

Estimated cost: an additional $5 million. To date, the school has received $4.4 million in state and federal funds, said Donald H. Sebastian, a university senior vice president who oversees the research.

A 2005 study by a committee of the National Academy of Engineering was less optimistic, predicting that any of the various smart guns would need five to 10 years and $30 million.

That kind of money would likely have to come from government, as gun makers don't have big research budgets, committee chair Lance Davis said.

"They manufacture new models," Davis said. "It amounts to incremental changes."

Yet several gun makers have developed smart-gun prototypes. Some identified a physical characteristic, such as a fingerprint. One required the user to wear a special ring that the gun identified with a radio frequency signal.

In a 1999 memo, Colt's Manufacturing Co. told investors that a police model could be introduced in two or three years.

But Carlton Chen, vice president and general counsel for the Connecticut company, said in an interview that the technology didn't work well enough and that the company "ran out of money."

Even if technology works, there is some question how much it could reduce violence in a city such as Philadelphia. Most of the city's gun crimes are committed by people who obtain weapons from a "straw" buyer - people who buy guns legally and then sell them to someone with a criminal record.

Recce said his grip-recognition technology could solve that problem if the rightful owner had to get the firearm programmed by a dealer or at a police station. If someone else wanted to buy the gun, he or she would have to go back to get it reprogrammed.

At the very least, the technology would cut down on violence committed with the 500,000 handguns that are stolen each year, said Stephen Teret, public health professor at Johns Hopkins University.

"If all those guns had been personalized guns," Teret said, "they would be useless when they were stolen."
 
It will never work. We can't make a theft proof car so what chance is there of it working in a gun. They want to make such devices law though because they know they will never work and will result in a default gun ban. That's the short version of the argument.
 
And what's to stop anyone who steals one from ripping all the recognition guts out and rewiring it with a new switch, some lamp cord, and a 9v battery?
 
1. Write your state reps and demand they kick this legislation out on its ear.
2. Move out of Noo Joisey.

I picked a Glock as my pistol. Safties are all internal, less crap to break on the outside. I don't WANT a grip safety, a magazine "safety", etc.: I want the firearm to go bang! every single time the trigger is pulled under a loaded chamber. (Not to say I think Glocks are perfect, but I like 'em best.)

Reliability is the _number one_ factor in firearms purchased for any serious work (hunting, defense, basically anything but plinking at the range). 99.95% is not good enough for me. :p

An over-the-top comic which illustrates the point
 
The only real advantage I could see this for is on police officer's sidearms to stop them getting into the hands of criminals and ending up with the death of the officers after losing their gun in a struggle much like what happened in Georgia at the courthouse last year. Unfortantly these laws don't apply to police officers so pretty much throws away a handy system for them. For most people all it does is cause a headache and when stolen they could be altered without much trouble by a criminal.
 
At the very least, the technology would cut down on violence committed with the 500,000 handguns that are stolen each year, said Stephen Teret, public health professor at Johns Hopkins University.


That number seems a bit high... where are they getting the statistic from?
 
The prototype, developed at the New Jersey Institute of Technology in Newark, has pressure sensors embedded in the gun handle that recognize a person's unique grip.

Ok, what happens if one's gun hand is injured and this alters the grip or forces the shooter to have to use his off hand? For that fact, what about the any number of scenarios that would incapacitate the someone's on hand, leaving only his off hand available to use? Would the antis support law suits against the makers of this technology or the state for requiring it when its malfunction and/or its limitation results in someone's great bodily harm or death?

Many gun owners chafe at the notion of any restrictions on their Second Amendment right to bear arms,

What part of “shall not be infringed” do they not understand? It is fine to make these smart weapons optional to the gun market or even required for LEOs but it is infringement to make this new technology required for all gun ownership.

Gun-control advocates, meanwhile, are split, with some warning that personalized firearms would give owners a false sense of security.

If this smart technology does work it would destroy their “guns are more dangerous to gun owners because criminals can use gun owners own guns against them” and their argument that “most guns criminals get come from legal citizens so taking guns away from citizens dries up criminals gun sources.” Even if criminals did steal guns then under this technology it “shouldn’t” work in the criminals hands.

Though the New Jersey law exempts law enforcement, police might also benefit from the technology. According to FBI statistics, as many as one in six officers killed each year is slain with his or her weapon.
Here we have another example of elitism and “do as I say not as I do” hypocrisy of the anti-gun crowd. I am really getting fed up with this “one law for the rulers and another for the ruled” bull s***. This type of tyranny is exactly what the 2nd Amendment was designed to prevent.


Ok, and what is to prevent a criminal from removing or disabling this technology? Do the makers of this really think criminals that do steal guns won’t open them up and remove the pressure plates? I fear that this will be just another gun control device that effects only the law abiding citizens required to use it and not the criminals that by their very nature don’t care about the laws.
 
This has been around so long that "the New Jersey law exempts law enforcement".

"Duke University economist Philip J. Cook estimates that if all handguns were personalized, more than 4,000 lives would be saved each year from
- fewer murders (I guess Cook thinks that legitimate gun owners are never accused of murder),
- accidents (I guess Cook thinks that legitimate gun owners are never stupid) and
- teen suicides (I guess Cook thinks that teens are too stupid to come up with another way to off themselves)."
 
There is no way to make it work. It's bogus science cooked up for rank political reasons. The law is simply a smoke screen to help the antis outlaw handguns without admitting they're outlawing handguns. They might as well pass a law that each handgun must come with a Star Trek stun setting.
 
There is no way to idiot proof anything, much less a gun. Our politicians should be limited to meeting one day a year so they would have less time to dream up nonsense.
 
Engineering Problem

As an engineering problem, one of the first things to look at is modes of failure (what happens when things don't work). If something goes wrong with the idenficiation system, it will either default to allowing the gun to fire or not to fire.

If it defaults to allowing it to fire, then frying the circuits makes it easy to bypass, thus the system is worthless in the eyes of those making it. Therefore, we can eliminate this as their choice of implementation.

However, if the system won't fire when damaged (fail-safe), then it is a simple matter to render a gun ineffective. No wonder the police are exempt, otherwise a kid (or criminal) with a slingshot could damage the grip sensors, effectively unarming the officer. The system also doesn't address what would happen if gloves are worn, or even something as trivial as a wedding band affecting one of the sensors. The other system mentioned, "radio frequency signal" or RFID (radio frequency identification), is even easier. If you had a stronger broadcast power, you could override the system, which would make it possible to shut down every such system within the range of your broadcast.

I'm less familar with the grip-pressure sensors, but for the RFID systems, here's two links about how easy they can be circumvented:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/rfid.html
http://www.theregister.com/2006/05/09/laptop_car_crime/

:fire: Why can't they see that this idea cannot work from an engineering perspective?

From a legal perspective, if the police are exempt, then it won't stop criminals from using officers' guns against them. It might even encourage it, since that would be an easy way to get a gun that couldn't get disabled.

:cuss: What they are doing doesn't even help them achieve their own agenda!
 
Hey, look on the bright side...

...The value of your 'dumb' guns should at least quadruple...:banghead:

This would also mean that you:
...Couldn't teach your kids to shoot until they were old enough to buy a gun of their own.
...Couldn't invite your buddies or spouse to try it out. Conversely you...
...Couldn't try your buddies (or anyone willing to let you) gun to see if you'd like one...
 
+1 limeyfellow!!

The only real advantage I could see this for is on police officer's sidearms to stop them getting into the hands of criminals and ending up with the death of the officers after losing their gun in a struggle much like what happened in Georgia at the courthouse last year. Unfortantly these laws don't apply to police officers so pretty much throws away a handy system for them. For most people all it does is cause a headache and when stolen they could be altered without much trouble by a criminal.

Exellent idea. Gun control that only effects cops! Now if they can come up with a gizmo that prevents them from having negligent discharges....
 
If you prevent Type I errors there will be Type II errors. If you reduce Type II errors there will be Type I errors.

Or, in English, the harder you make it for anyone else to fire the gun the more likely it is that you won't be able to when you need to.
 
if God from on high came down and made all guns only fire for the designated user, that would be a good thing 99.9% of the time.

Barring that, too great of a risk of someone needing to use your gun and not bieng able to, (either for fun or for life and death) and the same thing with yourself being hasty and not grabbing it the same, or having a wounded main arm so you fire with your spare hand, etc etc.

to be brutally honest, this system will probably be first implimented for police officers. When cops get killed becuase they cannot shoot when they need to, it will be dropped.
 
"Ok, what happens if one's gun hand is injured and this alters ....,"

You got it. It's a bogosity and a flim-flam. the people buying into it are the same ones who got all humped up about the fake "Homeboy Nite Site" ads.
 
never gonna happen

Why don't those engineers spend those millions of our tax dollars to create flying pigs?

It makes just as much sense, is just a practical, and I'd like to eat pig wings rather than the same old buffalo wings!

Before any government entity can require such laws, I think they should mandate trial periods using every one of their respective LEO contingents first. That way, if it's a safe enough technology for them, it must be safe for the huddled masses.

When will our elected officials learn that the more armed a populus is, the less criminals there are? It fixes the problem, but doesn't increase the taxes, therefore, it is not a worthy solution.

Our government is turning into alligators and bears. The more people feed them, the more they want and the more aggressive and dangerous they become. Once that happens, the offending animal must be "put down". With the government, however, they want to eliminate the means to "put them down" before we get tired of feeding them and they become dangerous.
 
The one thing I have always thought was interesting in the whole "Smart Gun" developement is this .
If it is suppose to allow one person only to fire the weapon does that mean they will sell a gun to an 8 year old when their parents decide they are ready to be trained in shooting a gun 12 , 15 , 17 ? If they refuse to sell the child the gun due to some age requirement they have violated his Constitutional rights " The Right of The People To Keep and Bear Arns" it doesn't say the right of a 21 or 18 year old now does it ? As a citizen of this country a child has the same rights as an adult .
Or is the state now going to decide on how a parent may raise their child ? As it is they slip through a loophole and avoid a Constitutional challenge because a child can use a gun but simply not own it untill a certain age but with this Smart gun he/she would have to own it to even fire it .
 
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